Zumbo: A proposition for you

[GranteedEV]

I've never heard MB Quarts. I simply do not know what they sound like. Therefore I can't justify discussing them.

That does not mean I am closed minded. Auditioning them is out of the question unless I come across it locally. However as you may know, I'm a firm believer that measurements are able to tell a strong story about the performance of a loudspeaker. Therefore I am requesting some measurements. I don't know if you've got measurement gear or not, or if someone locally can get you the measurement gear, but I would love to see some measurements of your MB Quarts. No time constraint or anything, but eventually.

Which outdoor measurements would I like?

#1 On & Off Axis Frequency Response. First and foremost, I need to know if the speaker is intentionally emphasizing any frequency. It's the most basic sign of a speaker I'd want.

#2 Waterfall / Cumulative Spectral Decay. To check for resonances and ringing... "distortion" essentially.

#3 Horizontal Polar response. To see how it interacts with the room in terms of accuracy of sound.

#4 Vertical Polar response although this is generally less relevant.

#5 Power Compression Response. Both with no High Pass Filter and with a 12db/octave HPF at your favorite sub crossover frequency.

#6 Impedance and Phase vs Frequency. Just to see what kind of load it presents amplifiers with.

Measurements are enough to convince me that they're great overall speakers...perhaps even buy them and sell my own. And not just I, but I think a few on this board. I ask this out of honest curiousity, since you have an obvious love for them.

If MB Quart is willing to submit their internal measurements, That's fine by me too.

 

[KEW]

Where are you?
Hopefully we can find someone in your area with measurement gear and a more common reference speaker for making comparisons.
I'd love to hear the MB Quarts. If you are near me, I could even bring a pair of P362's to compare them with (which, BTW, I consider a great speaker for the price, but I would definitely buy other speakers with a ~$1000 budget).

 

[Alex2507]

I've never heard MB Quarts. I simply do not know what they sound like. Therefore I can't justify discussing them.

You're just not going to believe this ...

It has the tonal quality of a Chinook wind roaring down Stephan's Avenue Mall while the LRT rumbles past the Devonian Gardens in the opposite direction. The build quality is that of a Yugo built in Taiwan.

That does not mean I am closed minded.

It's your ears you need to close.

...

I have been sticking different things up it's hole but it seems to like this the best.

Too soon ... ???

 

[zumbo]

The MB Quart QLS line is discontinued product from around '00-'03.

As some of you may know, the company was owned by Fosgate Audionics at that time. Product was called MB Quart. Fosgate made the subs for MB Quart at this time. MB Quart continued to make the mids and tweets.

Before that, it was Quart Mobile. The product was called MB Quart.

Before that, I am not sure of the product name, but it was Quart and Peerless.
They split and formed two companies. I am sure you guys have heard of Peerless.

A company called Maxxsonics purchased MB Quart from Fosgate and moved manufacturing to China. This put the guys in Germany that created such a fine product out of work. Maxxsonics ruined MB Quart, and Maxxsonics owns the rights to the brand.

The German guys got investors together, and re-opened under the name German Maestro. They are currently making some fine product. These are the guys that may have the documents you request. As mentioned, they are German. Anything I have seen in the past is in German. Personally, I have not devoted time to reading graphs for speakers. I just audition.

I have not looked for such documents due to the fact the QLS line is 10+ years old, and the fact that auditioning is what I prefer.

I may be able to find stuff on the new product, which should give an idea of their ability to build quality product.

Quart was never known for their subs, which is why Fosgate took over the sub manufacturing.

Any time a member is looking for a 1k pair of speakers, or a 3k complete system, I recommend MB Quart QLS. I have never recommended MB Quart subs.

Or Polk subs, or B&W subs, or Infinity subs, yada yada. Just like in car audio, Quart was the chosen mids and tweets, and JL was the chosen subs.

 

[zumbo]

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/audio_04_2010_LineaS.pdf

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s.pdf

(EDIT)Found English:
http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/audio_04_2010_LineaS_en.pdf

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s_en.pdf

 

[zumbo]

Bookshelf

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/audio_07_10_LineaS_B1_en.pdf

 

[zumbo]

Just can't find anything on the QLS. I will try to email German Maestro Monday, as I would be interested to have you guys dissect the test results.

Thoughts on the German Maestro results?

I have to do the shopping thing with the fam. I will check in later. Thanks for the thread. Classy.

 

[zumbo]

You're just not going to believe this ...

Can you pull the driver and see what it states?

As I stated, they are not known for their subs.

Just curious who made that particular driver?

 

[zumbo]

I was in the shower getting ready and thinking.

The Quart sub posted above looks to be a passive sub.

Looking at the pictures, I would also probably peg that unit as 80's, early 90's.

During that time, surround was new. Also, surround just took 2-channel and turned it into surround. There was no LFE .1 channel. This is why my guess is that the sub is passive.

If it is, you have to understand it was designed to be used with a receiver having a sub connection, and designed to be run with the low power available from the receiver. Beginning stages of surround.

Back then, I had Cerwin Vega D7's with 12" woofers. They were awesome for the time. I own them now, and they sound awful. Surrounds were foam, not butyl. One was replaced back in the day, and the other is rotted.

Looking at the Quart sub posted, the surround looks butyl. To me, that would be considered high-end for the time period. Seeing as how the sub is still intact says alot to me.

 

[Alex2507]

That sub is an MB Quart D 1000 Si. That cnet link from 2003 says it's got a 100 watt amp. I already had the driver out and can assure you that it is ... understand that this thing is mine and I use it so I like it but that doesn't mean that it's any good in AH terms ... not something Warp would use.

The magnet is tiny, it has a rating of 100 watts printed right on it and the stamped steel basket is rickety. The amp gets hot enough to f^%& and the auto on feature lacks the sensitivity to use this sub in anything but on 'ON' position ... plus it turns on and off with a thud. Having said that it is perfect for my application. Being a condo dweller I only use subs at certain times for certain things. It fills in the bottom of a 80Hz cross nicely for music at the SPL's I listen at and can quickly make a nuisance of me with my neighbors. With a Rives disc I got usable output somewhere in the 30's. I forgot the specifics. I paid $36 for it and had to solder up one of the connectors which is why I had the driver out. It had quite a bit of stuffing inside that kept me from getting a good look see at the amp and/or amp housing. A knuckle rap test reveals a highly resonant and flimsy cabinet but that's kind of cool with me. I like making things better and this thing is can certainly be taken up a level with minimal effort ... so I'm cool with it.

Honestly one of those 12" Daytons would cream this thing but it's
doing more for me than just providing bass. I get to play with this!

Edit: I don't want to pull the driver again until it's time for me to do the voodoo again.

 

[zumbo]

That sub is an MB Quart D 1000 Si. That cnet link from 2003 says it's got a 100 watt amp. I already had the driver out and can assure you that it is ... understand that this thing is mine and I use it so I like it but that doesn't mean that it's any good in AH terms ... not something Warp would use.

The magnet is tiny, it has a rating of 100 watts printed right on it and the stamped steel basket is rickety. The amp gets hot enough to f^%& and the auto on feature lacks the sensitivity to use this sub in anything but on 'ON' position ... plus it turns on and off with a thud. Having said that it is perfect for my application. Being a condo dweller I only use subs at certain times for certain things. It fills in the bottom of a 80Hz cross nicely for music at the SPL's I listen at and can quickly make a nuisance of me with my neighbors. With a Rives disc I got usable output somewhere in the 30's. I forgot the specifics. I paid $36 for it and had to solder up one of the connectors which is why I had the driver out. It had quite a bit of stuffing inside that kept me from getting a good look see at the amp and/or amp housing. A knuckle rap test reveals a highly resonant and flimsy cabinet but that's kind of cool with me. I like making things better and this thing is can certainly be taken up a level with minimal effort ... so I'm cool with it.

Honestly one of those 12" Daytons would cream this thing but it's
doing more for me than just providing bass. I get to play with this!

Edit: I don't want to pull the driver again until it's time for me to do the voodoo again.

The MB Quart sub from '00-'03 that matched my set was called a SW12. It was down firing, and 250W if I am not mistaken. Still wouldn't drop my coin for it.

Current German Maestro sub seems to be the same.

http://www.german-maestro.de/US/ms_sw_12.htm

The unit you have is much older. From the looks of it, I would assume it is a Quart driver. With a 100W on-board amp, and it's age, one would have to assume it should be lacking in performance.

Most Quart drivers from '00 on use a composite basket, not steel. To this day, the subs are not made in house by the same people who make the others. The subs on their site don't even say they were designed, or made in Germany.

They are a mid and tweet company.

 

[zumbo]

Test data.

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/audio_04_2010_LineaS.pdf

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s.pdf

(EDIT)Found English:
http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/audio_04_2010_LineaS_en.pdf

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s_en.pdf

No reply?

For a fraction of the German Maestro price, the MB Quart QLS can be had.

 

[GranteedEV]

sorry, I`ve been on my phone right now nowhere near a computer. Those pdfs are just too small on a 3 inch screen.

 

[Alex2507]

I liked it better before the edit ... "bottom of the line".

Really, it's funny and I don't have anything vested in it, not even strong opinions. It's great that you love your speakers. I'd like to hear some one day. The auditioning thing has surprised me on occasion ... actually on every occasion but I still watch those graphs and try to learn as I go.

 

[zumbo]

"bottom of the line".

I had to fix it. It didn't read well. With a 100W amp in a front ported design, it was probably bottom-of-the-line within the brand.

Anyway, upon further investigation, it seems as though they still do not make their subs in-house to this day. They are a small driver company.

 

[zumbo]

sorry, I`ve been on my phone right now nowhere near a computer. Those pdfs are just too small on a 3 inch screen.

I tried to copy the graphs in the pdf file. It won't let me do it.

Can anyone extract it from the links? From what I read, it looks as though they performed very well. I am no graph reader though.

 

[zumbo]

As for the knock test on the 830's, it's like knocking on concrete. Just a knuckle hurting thud.

 

[zumbo]

The graphs have been posted for over ten hours, and no-one has yet to respond to the thread that called-me-out.

Anxious to hear what all you graph guys have to say, and yet nothing.

All I know how to read is frequency response, and then I guess the goal is to see a pretty flat line between the points. Looks flat to me.

I can see the -3 is 47Hz, and -6 is 38Hz. Not too shabby for a little 7" 2.5 way.

Mine state 33Hz, so I assume that is -6. Probably tuned the port differently on the new models to further improve on the product, and clean-up the mids even more. I know my ports are round, and the new model is oval.

Guess you guys have to contact someone to tell you what the graphs mean? I know I can't tell you, but I am not the one who was asking for the information.

 

[Alex2507]

The graphs have been posted for over ten hours, and no-one has yet to respond to the thread that called-me-out.

I'm gonna say better than Bose but not as good as the Infinities ...

Okay, now that that's out of the way let me tell you what I think I can see from the graphs ... this is kind of like palm reading. Because of the itty bitty bass hump and pretty steep roll off ~10kHz I don't think you'd ever consider Klipsch as being your kind of sound. The over all balance of the curve tells me that most people would think those are quite nice. There's a little dip in the speech discrimination band that might manifest itself as female vocals lacking a certain something in the upper register. I heard Doug describe something like that as what the 15th row might sound like compared to the front row but only in that one area of vocals. That would be pretty hard to pick out though. I think that's another example of a low tweeter that might need to be raised up unless the tweeter has like wicked good horizontal dispersion.

What I like most is that grill. It's the whole front of the speaker that comes off but it looks good on with the curves. I'm just babbling from memory here. I wouldn't give that one graph a ton of credibility. It doesn't even seem to take itself seriously judging by the size of it but that's silly.

I haven't read the review either. I just looked at the graph. Forgive me.

 

[zumbo]

I'm gonna say better than Bose but not as good as the Infinities ...

LOL!

Okay, now that that's out of the way let me tell you what I think I can see from the graphs ... this is kind of like palm reading. Because of the itty bitty bass hump and pretty steep roll off ~10kHz I don't think you'd ever consider Klipsch as being your kind of sound.

Some of the worst speakers I have ever auditioned.

The over all balance of the curve tells me that most people would think those are quite nice. There's a little dip in the speech discrimination band that might manifest itself as female vocals lacking a certain something in the upper register. I heard Doug describe something like that as what the 15th row might sound like compared to the front row but only in that one area of vocals. That would be pretty hard to pick out though. I think that's another example of a low tweeter that might need to be raised up unless the tweeter has like wicked good horizontal dispersion.

I don't do too many female vocalist, but plenty of old-school Robert Plant(Zeppelin). He screams like a female. Sounds about right to me. I consider the vocals of my speakers to be laid back, while the speaker as a whole is not.

For example, my friends B&W 600 series(683,HTM61,685) are waaaaaay to forward in the vocal range of the mids to me. Pretty offensive sounding, to be exact.

What I like most is that grill. It's the whole front of the speaker that comes off but it looks good on with the curves. I'm just babbling from memory here. I wouldn't give that one graph a ton of credibility. It doesn't even seem to take itself seriously judging by the size of it but that's silly.

I haven't read the review either. I just looked at the graph. Forgive me.

The build quality of my speakers are first rate. As for the grills, they are made out of the same wood as the rest of the speaker. They are very heavy, and you can just feel the quality.

I must say, that anyone looking at this thread needs to be sure to compare apples to apples here. As mentioned, the German Maestro are just 2.5 way slim 7" towers. The QLS are 6.5".