Marantz AV7005 Networking A/V Processor Review

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Darn Shame that so many people are experiencing noise issues with this product....

AVS has a boatload of people as well...

Glad I didn't just jump on the bandwagon - I'll hold out for something else...
My bet is that they are not noisier than other products but their owners are looking/listening hard for it. The thing is, people who switch from AVR to separates have something in common in mind. They expect major improvements. Most AV7005 owners paid <$1500 so they most likely are first time separate users.

Trouble is, decent AVRs are likely less prone to such noises because everything being in one box it is easier for the designer/builder to achieve their goal of keeping noise at bay. With separates, the units would most likely be fine, in this case the AV7005, but it is when you start connecting everything else to it then trouble starts unless you know how to manage them. Anyway that's just my theory, I could easily be wrong. That being said, I am happy to report that my AV7005/MM8003 is as quiet as any high end system I have had listened to in the past. That is as long as my 2 channel amp is not in the loop. When it is in the loop, such noise is only barely audible with ear on the grille, and that is still as good as any system I had previously listened to in many dealers show rooms. I really don't believe the product itself is the problem. If I did I would have returned them it now.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
We really seem to have a similarity of view here.

The real problem is that the manufacturers have to try and design for suboptimal situations. This is the basis of this less than optimal double insulated solution. This tries to reduce hum when some knucklehead wants to plug hid subwoofer into a different circuit at the other end of the room. The electrician likely used the smallest ground wires code would allow. Couple that with having to connect to cable and sat systems installed by individuals stupider than pig dribble and your set for trouble.

Really every piece of equipment should have to be 19" rack mountable, with the ground plane tightly bonded to the chassis. The equipment should have to be mounted in a well grounded rack.

I would propose some crap standards for the masses, along the lines of what we have now.

I would propose different standards for better products, like all pro/pros and power amps and receiver over the $1000 price point. I would design them to specifications forcing professional installations standards. That would be, do it by the book you are fine. One infraction and the hum is deafening.

That would sort them out.

Now we have no rules and it confounds everybody.

This is an important thread, as a manufacturer is almost certainly getting blamed for something beyond their control.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Try a different amp, first connect very short cable a speaker and go from there. I heard hum from Anthem amps before too. No brands can guarantee 0 defects so there is always the possibilities that your unit is defective but it may be too early to confirm that yet.
I am fairly certain that the amp is not the issue. When it is connected to my Anthem AVM 30 it (Speakers) are silent. When it is connected to my Marantz AV7005 it hums and hisses. It is not the AMP.

I have an issue sent up to level 2 tech at Marantz.

Their First Response was:

"This is typically due differences in grounding schemes between the amplifier and the preamp. Do you know what grounding scheme your power amplifier is using?"
- Ok, mabye its just me, but how many of you know the grounding schemes your amps use? Needless to say I sent an email to Anthem Support

Here is all I could find from some review

"Now, with that in mind, we can talk about the fact that the PVA-7 (and the MCA-5 for that matter) boasts an incredible S/N ratio of -122 dB. Good grief! That's as good as no noise at all man. This industry-leading electrical silence was a primary design goal of the amplifier series, and part of attaining it called for going without chassis ground which requires double insulation AC techniques to maintain safety certifications"

The PVA 7 does have a Ground connection screw on the back of the unit. Could I connect that to the Ground Termanal of my Monster Power 3600 MKII?

At this point I am probably going to going to return it and just spend the extra 3.5k on the AVM 50V apparently Anthem is going to support 3D via their HDMI in the next few months. I thought 1499 for a preamp was a little too good to be true, now I know better
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am fairly certain that the amp is not the issue. When it is connected to my Anthem AVM 30 it is silent. When it is connected to my Marantz AV7005 it hums and hisses. It is not the AMP.
I never said it was your amp. Since your Anthems are also double insulated with no intentional ground connected to the chassis/frame. It is possible that your Anthem pairs have the same potential on their chassis/frame and the Marantz do not. My AV7005 is also silent with the Marantz MM8003 power amp but it does not fare as well with my Adcom amp though still very quiet.

It may help if you can tie the chassis/frame of the AV7005 to the Anthem power amp together with a good solid connection to keep them on the same potential.

If you can get the hum to only audible with your ear right on the speaker grille and with volume at say 0 and above than it should not be a problem at all for all intents and purposes. It is such an excellent value that it is worth trying hard to make it to work for you.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I am fairly certain that the amp is not the issue. When it is connected to my Anthem AVM 30 it (Speakers) are silent. When it is connected to my Marantz AV7005 it hums and hisses. It is not the AMP.

I have an issue sent up to level 2 tech at Marantz.

Their First Response was:

"This is typically due differences in grounding schemes between the amplifier and the preamp. Do you know what grounding scheme your power amplifier is using?"
- Ok, mabye its just me, but how many of you know the grounding schemes your amps use? Needless to say I sent an email to Anthem Support

Here is all I could find from some review

"Now, with that in mind, we can talk about the fact that the PVA-7 (and the MCA-5 for that matter) boasts an incredible S/N ratio of -122 dB. Good grief! That's as good as no noise at all man. This industry-leading electrical silence was a primary design goal of the amplifier series, and part of attaining it called for going without chassis ground which requires double insulation AC techniques to maintain safety certifications"

The PVA 7 does have a Ground connection screw on the back of the unit. Could I connect that to the Ground Termanal of my Monster Power 3600 MKII?

At this point I am probably going to going to return it and just spend the extra 3.5k on the AVM 50V apparently Anthem is going to support 3D via their HDMI in the next few months. I thought 1499 for a preamp was a little too good to be true, now I know better
You don't know it is too good to be true.

Peng is correct. If your read my posts you will see that this double insulated nonsense causes a lot of grief. I can be pretty certain both units are OK, but the chassis are at a different potential. And yes, Marantz are correct you do need to understand the grounding scheme of your units.

Disconnect your units and see if you have him from the headphones from the Marantz, if not it is fine. We know you amp is fine. So the problem has to be that the chassis are at different potential. This is virtually bound to happen to varying degrees when mixing brands.

So what I would do is find a screw on the chassis of both units. Get the paint off. Use copper wire with ring lugs soldered on and connect the chassis soundly and connect that link to ground.

Then you may have to ground the chassis of any other "double insulated" units on a case by case basis.

The problem is that a very small difference in potential between the chassis of interconnected unit, or other parts of the system for that matter will result in hum. I don't care what they say on the AVS forum. Send them here for the true scoop.

You do have to be really obsessional about ground planes in systems and try as far a possible to understand the ground scheme of your various units. I know this is a "wet towel" problem, but there are no short cuts or easy answers. The double insulated is a short cut that often backfires.

Here is what I'm talking about. I just shot a few more pictures for you.

My Marantz AV 8003 I know has its chassis well grounded to the rack by the mounting bolts. So some other units have to tied in. Note the 4 gauge copper. The potentials involved are so low, that the resistances in your ground plane interconnections must be kept extremely low.



Here is a close up of a grounding to a double insulated unit.



You even have to tie in the power receptacles, as the AC line as too higher resistance in the ground path.

 

Thourebub

Audiophyte
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adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Grounding issue is the problem.

As TLS Guy says, it is a fact of life.

But in a way, pre-pros & amps are giving this separates component camp a bad name.

Until I owned the Emotiva MPS2 amp, I never knew what "HUM" noise was!

I had never experience this HUM noise before.

The Acurus amps never ever had any hum.

When I had the AVR-5308 (without the AT3005 amp), there was never any hum noise either.

Then I add the AT3005, and there was a terrible HUM.

I bought a $30 RF ground loop isolater from amazon and it completely removed the hum noise 100%.

But the point is, I think most people using just plain receivers never have to worry about hum noise.

And then they get into separates pre-pros & amps, and there was HUM. And now they have to worry about grounding issues.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Grounding issue is the problem.

As TLS Guy says, it is a fact of life.

But in a way, pre-pros & amps are giving this separates component camp a bad name.

Until I owned the Emotiva MPS2 amp, I never knew what "HUM" noise was!

I had never experience this HUM noise before.

The Acurus amps never ever had any hum.

When I had the AVR-5308 (without the AT3005 amp), there was never any hum noise either.

Then I add the AT3005, and there was a terrible HUM.

I bought a $30 RF ground loop isolater from amazon and it completely removed the hum noise 100%.

But the point is, I think most people using just plain receivers never have to worry about hum noise.

And then they get into separates pre-pros & amps, and there was HUM. And now they have to worry about grounding issues.
You always have to worry ab out grounding issues. That worry is ever present. I've been chasing grounding problems right out of the nursery!

Now a receiver should eliminate grounding issues between pre and amps, but that all. There are plenty of other interconnections to get tripped up on.

I would say with any system you have to start by looking at problems within the home.

Then progress to a grounding plan that is logical and makes sense for your system.

I do think that there do need to be some industry standards about grounding. It is now every man for himself.

You are left for a quiet life with Peter Walker's somewhat cynical approach.

He planned that his power amps would be grounded from the preamp audio cables. All his pre amps have three pin connectors and are grounded through the mains cable. His amps have a three pin IEC connector on them. They are not double insulated. But he had a bunch of three pin IEC cords, made, but the grounds are not connected end to end! So pre and amp have the same ground. The consumer has used a cheater plug without knowing it! His rig is nice and quiet so he is happy. The trouble comes when a consumer uses a power cord that did not come with the amp.

Quad still use the same plan. I bet it cuts a lot of calls to customer service.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The consumer has used a cheater plug without knowing it!
Is that legal?:eek:

I've read on the Linkwitz Orion forum that a few folks have also resorted to using cheater plugs because the Orion's Crossover is picking up ground loop hum and these folks could not figure out how to resolve the issues, even after using audio transformer loop isolaters & RF ground loop isolators and redoing their wires and cables.

They say that since the max volt on the crossover is 5v, that it is safe to use the cheater plugs.

But what is the max volt on the Martantz pre-pro and other pre-pros?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Is that legal?:eek:

I've read on the Linkwitz Orion forum that a few folks have also resorted to using cheater plugs because the Orion's Crossover is picking up ground loop hum and these folks could not figure out how to resolve the issues, even after using audio transformer loop isolaters & RF ground loop isolators and redoing their wires and cables.

They say that since the max volt on the crossover is 5v, that it is safe to use the cheater plugs.

But what is the max volt on the Martantz pre-pro and other pre-pros?
Let's say dubious, but it gets the job done. However professional practice is to ground the mixer or preamp and not the power amps. This is the practice I always follow. Just make sure the leads are in place when the power amps are powered.

Active crossovers add another dimension to the mix. My crossovers are all grounded to the rack and the heavily grounded receptacle. My main crossovers are built into old Shure pro cases. I don't have a problem with that issue with my crossover.

If you have a problem I would strongly bond the crossover grounds to the pre/pro and ground that, and not the power amps. I would try that first.

If there is a problem with that, then the next thing would be to open up the amps and, and pre/pro, make sure everything is well grounded to the chassis, especially the input and output sockets, and ground the amp back to the crossovers/pro via the grounds of the signal leads.

However not having everything in front of me, that is an educated guess.
 
0

04rex

Audioholic Intern
Hey Guys, thinking about getting this Pre/Pro set up. Quick question, i dont know if this has been asked already or not, but is it possible to get 2 of the 7055 amps with the AV7005 and Bi-Amp the 3 front channels (FL, C, FR)? If so, how would you do this? Is it recommended to do this? THe Speakers that will be hooked up are the Paradigm Studio Series.

Thanks!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hey Guys, thinking about getting this Pre/Pro set up. Quick question, i dont know if this has been asked already or not, but is it possible to get 2 of the 7055 amps with the AV7005 and Bi-Amp the 3 front channels (FL, C, FR)? If so, how would you do this? Is it recommended to do this? THe Speakers that will be hooked up are the Paradigm Studio Series.

Thanks!
It is possible, but it will be a total waste of time and money. Certainly the expenditure would be no way commensurate with the any small theoretical gain.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Hey Guys, thinking about getting this Pre/Pro set up. Quick question, i dont know if this has been asked already or not, but is it possible to get 2 of the 7055 amps with the AV7005 and Bi-Amp the 3 front channels (FL, C, FR)? If so, how would you do this? Is it recommended to do this? THe Speakers that will be hooked up are the Paradigm Studio Series.

Thanks!
Bi-Amping in its purest form is worthwhile - for very good active loudspeaker systems.
Passively bi-amping those Studios would not be however. At most you would get a bit less strain at high volumes but pretty much pointless.

For more information on bi-amping and where / when it's worthwhile, take a gander at the articles on bi-amping at this site:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hey Guys, thinking about getting this Pre/Pro set up. Quick question, i dont know if this has been asked already or not, but is it possible to get 2 of the 7055 amps with the AV7005 and Bi-Amp the 3 front channels (FL, C, FR)? If so, how would you do this? Is it recommended to do this? THe Speakers that will be hooked up are the Paradigm Studio Series.

Thanks!
No, don't get 2 little girly 140wpc amps, just get one manly 300WPC amp like this instead:D:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1301083381

Oh, and by the way, do you have any ground loop problems because you may be in for some HUM NOISE!
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
No, don't get 2 little girly 140wpc amps, just get one manly 300WPC amp like this instead:D:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1301083381

Oh, and by the way, do you have any ground loop problems because you may be in for some HUM NOISE!
Quite frankly, the marantz looks better. I'd rather buy the Lexicon RX-7 - the overpriced version of the same amplifier that sure does look nice.

Now if its' going in a hidden rack it doesn't matter. But underneath the TV? I'd sacrifice some 160 watts for pretty curvy sides :D
 
0

04rex

Audioholic Intern
Ground Loop Problems? Sorry, i am a newb. I dont know what that is exactly.

Also, i will scratch the Bi-amping idea.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ground Loop Problems? Sorry, i am a newb. I dont know what that is exactly.
Welcome to the world of separates - for the die-hard audiophiles.

Newbies beware!:D

Be fully prepared to know things like Line Ground Loop Isolator (for interconnects), RF Ground Loop Isolator (for cable/satellite lines), and $2 cheater plugs (which are not recommended).:D

And if those first two solutions don't work, then TLS Guy will have to give you a lesson on his course Ground Loop 101.:D

But hey, you may just be lucky.:)
 
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