Dayton RSS315HF-4 or 390HF-4?

[annunaki]

I probably could get by with one, but as you say, two would offer more headroom. However, my primary motivation is to even out the FR with both subs at 1/4 distance from the sidewalls. I like the idea of symmetry as well...

I agree with symmetry. It is important in terms of looks, no doubts.

You should have quite impressive performance using two of those in your room. With 600 watts rms you are looking at 115db anechoic output at or near 20hz. Assuming you have sizable room gain that could increase by at as much as +10db!!!

I would use some eq to tame your peaks once you have them in room, then use Audyessy in a nice receiver to offer a great experience.


There are other drivers out there that will work in a smaller enclosure but very few that offer the same level of performance at the same or lower price point than the Dayton.

 

[jinjuku]

I wonder what the TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC gains you for another ~$20 over the Dayton.

 

[annunaki]

I wonder what the TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC gains you for another ~$20 over the Dayton.

It does not gain him much of anything other than a smaller enclosure and a higher power requirement. Granted we are looking at a 15" vs. a 12" but the 15" extends lower (-3db point of 18hz for the 15" Dayton and -3db at 20hz for the 12" TC Sounds anechoic). The 15" also requires less power to hit the same SPLs and have a more linear frequency response plot.

The lower -1db point for the TC Epic 12 is 26hz on the lower end and 75hz on the upper side.

The enclosure size would be just 4.0ft^3 net, however, which would be nice but since they will be unseen anyway...

 

[jinjuku]

Nad, Why aren't you looking at the DIY Kappa's? They will fit your false wall and I would think it's a better driver build wise.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Nad, Why aren't you looking at the DIY Kappa's? They will fit your false wall and I would think it's a better driver build wise.

I would use the kappa box design, but where am I gonna find kappa drivers now? I thought they were discontinued.

 

[jinjuku]

I would use the kappa box design, but where am I gonna find kappa drivers now? I thought they were discontinued.

The Kappa 120.9w is a drop in replacement.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I agree with symmetry. It is important in terms of looks, no doubts.

You should have quite impressive performance using two of those in your room. With 600 watts rms you are looking at 115db anechoic output at or near 20hz. Assuming you have sizable room gain that could increase by at as much as +10db!!!

I would use some eq to tame your peaks once you have them in room, then use Audyessy in a nice receiver to offer a great experience.


There are other drivers out there that will work in a smaller enclosure but very few that offer the same level of performance at the same or lower price point than the Dayton.

Of course, since they would be behind the false wall, that symmetry would be mental, rather than visual. Nevertheless....

 

[GO-NAD!]

The Kappa 120.9w is a drop in replacement.

I compared both RSS drivers with the 120.9W in WinISD and the only area where I can see an advantage is in enclosure size. Am I missing something else?

 

[annunaki]

I compared both RSS drivers with the 120.9W in WinISD and the only area where I can see an advantage is in enclosure size. Am I missing something else?

Those were going to be my thoughts as well, very similar with the case of the TC Sounds Epic.

 

[jinjuku]

Those were going to be my thoughts as well, very similar with the case of the TC Sounds Epic.

Just not sure about linearity and distortion with the Kappa vs the Dayton. Gets one wondering what other 15" drivers out there are going for?

Can you really assume the output level is all there is far as SQ?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Just not sure about linearity and distortion with the Kappa vs the Dayton. Gets one wondering what other 15" drivers out there are going for?

Can you really assume the output level is all there is far as SQ?

I realize that there is more to SQ than output and extension. As far as other factors are concerned, such as linearity, I really can't answer that and hope somebody else can.

 

[annunaki]

Just not sure about linearity and distortion with the Kappa vs the Dayton. Gets one wondering what other 15" drivers out there are going for?

Can you really assume the output level is all there is far as SQ?

With these drivers yes. The Dayton RS units maintain motor and suspension linearity within rated xmax. It is is a low distortion driver. They also have been tested by 3rd parties. The Titanic woofers for instance have been run on dumax to show linearity.

The TC sounds motor (as well as the Infinity) is also very linear, again within xmax. If any of these drivers are playing within linear limits at the same SPL one will most likely not hear a difference. Where the TC Sounds has the advantage, 12" vs. 12", is a larger performance envelope. 22.9mm xmax (for the Epic) vs. 14.3 mm on the Dayton HF. However, since the TC Sounds driver is $20 more than the Dayton 15" this is where displacement has the edge and the performance envelope of the TC Sounds driver would be negated. That is so long as enclosure size is not an issue.

Is the TC Sounds driver better head to head with a 12" Dayton RS, sure. For Go NAD!'s application, not in my opinion. The Dayton 15" is a better buy for his particular application.

 

[lsiberian]

With these drivers yes. The Dayton RS units maintain motor and suspension linearity within rated xmax. It is is a low distortion driver. They also have been tested by 3rd parties. The Titanic woofers for instance have been run on dumax to show linearity.

The TC sounds motor (as well as the Infinity) is also very linear, again within xmax. If any of these drivers are playing within linear limits at the same SPL one will most likely not hear a difference. Where the TC Sounds has the advantage, 12" vs. 12", is a larger performance envelope. 22.9mm xmax (for the Epic) vs. 14.3 mm on the Dayton HF. However, since the TC Sounds driver is $20 more than the Dayton 15" this is where displacement has the edge and the performance envelope of the TC Sounds driver would be negated. That is so long as enclosure size is not an issue.

Is the TC Sounds driver better head to head with a 12" Dayton RS, sure. For Go NAD!'s application, not in my opinion. The Dayton 15" is a better buy for his particular application.

If I had a dedicated home theater room I'd put a Dayton 15" in every corner(or a horn). Because the drivers actually outperform their specs are low cost meaning easily replaceable and multi-sub placement corrects a significant amount of room issues. Not all, but overall bass is much better.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I was just crunching some rough numbers and a ported enclosure for a RSS390HF, at about 10 ft^3, would measure approximately 36" x 24" x 20" and will probably weigh about 120lbs, or more.

I'm having 2nd thoughts about that driver now. Although there is sufficient space behind the false wall to place a pair of these, I won't have any room to get behind to do anything else, like putting up bass traps, for example, or accessing the back of my components. I won't have as much lateral leeway in sub placement as well.

Plus, although I would get assistance to get them behind the wall, it'll be awfully awkward. To top it all off, I have a very small shop. So small, that I'm concerned about assembling and moving such behemoths around.

I'm wondering now, if the Epic might be the better option after all.

 

[lsiberian]

I was just crunching some rough numbers and a ported enclosure for a RSS390HF, at about 10 ft^3, would measure approximately 36" x 24" x 20" and will probably weigh about 120lbs, or more.

I'm having 2nd thoughts about that driver now. Although there is sufficient space behind the false wall to place a pair of these, I won't have any room to get behind to do anything else, like putting up bass traps, for example, or accessing the back of my components. I won't have as much lateral leeway in sub placement as well.

Plus, although I would get assistance to get them behind the wall, it'll be awfully awkward. To top it all off, I have a very small shop. So small, that I'm concerned about assembling and moving such behemoths around.

I'm wondering now, if the Epic might be the better option after all.

The Epic likes around a 3.1 cuft box tuned to 23.75 hz in my winisd models. You could certainly tweak it lower with a bigger box, but you will need to decide where you draw the line. It will get 3db more than the kappa in models. Just be aware that you will need more power.

 

[annunaki]

Let me see what other options I can come up with for you. You'll have to give a me a couple of days as I don't have lots of time lately but I will see what I can figure out for you.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The Epic likes around a 3.1 cuft box tuned to 23.75 hz in my winisd models. You could certainly tweak it lower with a bigger box, but you will need to decide where you draw the line. It will get 3db more than the kappa in models. Just be aware that you will need more power.

Would it be accurate to say that making the box larger will allow for a lower tune, at the expense of reduced output? Plus, to extend the -3dB point, a shallower slope at the bottom end will be required, i.e. a higher -1dB point? Does that make sense?

If so, I think I'd prefer a bit deeper extension over absolute output. That's something I can play with in WinISD. As for power, would an EP1500/2000 suffice to run a pair? Or, would they need an EP2500/4000?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Let me see what other options I can come up with for you. You'll have to give a me a couple of days as I don't have lots of time lately but I will see what I can figure out for you.

Thanks buddy! There's no rush - I won't be starting this until spring, at the earliest.

 

[lsiberian]

Would it be accurate to say that making the box larger will allow for a lower tune, at the expense of reduced output? Plus, to extend the -3dB point, a shallower slope at the bottom end will be required, i.e. a higher -1dB point? Does that make sense?

If so, I think I'd prefer a bit deeper extension over absolute output. That's something I can play with in WinISD. As for power, would an EP1500/2000 suffice to run a pair? Or, would they need an EP2500/4000?

honestly you aren't ever going to push it that hard so an ebs-3 might be an option, but it is still a loss in some headroom.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Another question comes to mind. Does anybody know if my RX-V1800 has sufficient subwoofer channel output voltage to properly drive an EP-series amp? I read Wayne A. Pflughaupt's article, over at HTS, about gain structure for HT systems and it's a bit of a rigamarole to go through, in order to make that determination - especially if somebody already has the answer.