2 Emotiva 12" or 1 HSU VTF-15H

[Matt34]

OK so i try to understand..why NOTHING can break a Pardigm subwoofer?..i tried it all...loud volume...all the damn settings to max and at loud volume and those amps and woofers never break..?....my poor receiver went donw before...lower yes a sinlge 15 incher will play lower but ok you dont see the advantages of multiple subs....so instead of getting a second sub 12 i will get any 15 incher...but i was planning on quad sub12....but i know a single hsu would be better then quad paradigm sub12....

Did you even bother reading the post you quoted? And what does your Paradigm sub have to do with the OP?

To the OP, the EMotiva subs look like they may have a high pass filter around 30hz (the roll off doesn't seem like a natural 12db/octave). If HT is the main use I would recommend the HSU hands down as it will have a large extension advantage.

 

[sholling]

And btw the HSU specs dont impress me at all....

I've heard the VTF-15 and it impressed the heck out of me.

Did you even bother reading the post you quoted? And what does your Paradigm sub have to do with the OP?

To the OP, the EMotiva subs look like they may have a high pass filter around 30hz (the roll off doesn't seem like a natural 12db/octave). If HT is the main use I would recommend the HSU hands down as it will have a large extension advantage.

+1, I have an Emotiva Ultra 12 in my office and it's a very nice sub for jazz and classical music but it does not have output much below 30hz.

 

[GranteedEV]

OK so i try to understand..why NOTHING can break a Pardigm subwoofer?..i tried it all...loud volume...all the damn settings to max and at loud volume and those amps and woofers never break..?

It's two pretty simple concepts

1) soft clipping.
2) high pass filtering

If you've got 500w of power on tap
and it takes 750w @ 25hz to take a driver to xmax
and it takes 500w @ 20hz to take a driver to xmax
and it takes 300w @ 15hz to take a drive to xmax

then all you have to do is

1) prevent much of the signal from reaching the amplifier at 20hz and below
2) flatten out any signal which would attempt to drive the amplifier harder than it can handle

This is like something you'd learn in 6th grade: In order to stop a funnel from overflowing you just slow down.

Nothing amazing about it. Any subwoofer which doesn't prevent itself from hitting hard distortion on extreme transients is just poorly designed or designed by and for someone who's very poor *cough*

Have you ever taken an SPL meter to your sub? Even if you yourself are turning up the volume, that doesn't mean the sub is getting any louder once it hits a certain threshold.

HSU looks weak because of it's amp? Do you not realize that a ported sub will be much more efficient in lower frequencies whereas a sealed sub will require 2-8 times the power to put out the same low-end output while requiring more excursion and more heat buildup?

 

[clouso]

Did you even bother reading the post you quoted? And what does your Paradigm sub have to do with the OP?

To the OP, the EMotiva subs look like they may have a high pass filter around 30hz (the roll off doesn't seem like a natural 12db/octave). If HT is the main use I would recommend the HSU hands down as it will have a large extension advantage.

Oh sorry....i read them all and quoted them all.....btw why the hell your getting on me while when we post threads about paradigm and those DIY guys comes in and ruin it all you dont say a word??,...look at my thread titled..''getting a paradigm sub12 later today''....i even asked and wrote to the management to it to be removed and they said there was to much responses to it and was to much ''popular''...gene are you here?....that tread i started to me is dead because DIY guys came and ruined it all....matt you dont like paradigm and i dont care i know its a canadian company...

 

[GranteedEV]

btw why the hell your getting on me while when we post threads about paradigm and those DIY guys comes in and ruin it all you dont say a word??,...look at my thread titled..''getting a paradigm sub12 later today''....i even asked and wrote to the management to it to be removed and they said there was to much responses to it and was to much ''popular''...gene are you here?....that tread i started to me is dead because DIY guys came and ruined it all....matt you dont like paradigm and i dont care i know its a canadian company...

Ruined it how? Did anyone bash your sub? All anyone said is in that thread is that the paradigm subs are quality. The only "diy talk" was not directed at you anyways, it was directed at someone else's financial decision. No one would even bother trying to help you to get better results for your money because for you nothing else exists but paradigm.

 

[clouso]

It's two pretty simple concepts

1) soft clipping.
2) high pass filtering

If you've got 500w of power on tap
and it takes 750w @ 25hz to take a driver to xmax
and it takes 500w @ 20hz to take a driver to xmax
and it takes 300w @ 15hz to take a drive to xmax

then all you have to do is

1) prevent much of the signal from reaching the amplifier at 20hz and below
2) flatten out any signal which would attempt to drive the amplifier harder than it can handle

This is like something you'd learn in 6th grade: In order to stop a funnel from overflowing you just slow down.

Nothing amazing about it. Any subwoofer which doesn't prevent itself from hitting hard distortion on extreme transients is just poorly designed or designed by and for someone who's very poor *cough*

Have you ever taken an SPL meter to your sub? Even if you yourself are turning up the volume, that doesn't mean the sub is getting any louder once it hits a certain threshold.

HSU looks weak because of it's amp? Do you not realize that a ported sub will be much more efficient in lower frequencies whereas a sealed sub will require 2-8 times the power to put out the same low-end output while requiring more excursion and more heat buildup?

I perfectly know a ported sub will go lower.....but will 3 12inchers have a better sound and fill better a room then a single 15incher?....just asking...

 

[GranteedEV]

I perfectly know a ported sub will go lower.....but will 3 12inchers have a better sound and fill better a room then a single 15incher?....just asking...

There`s so many factors in judging.

- Distortion
- Sensitivity
- Fs
- Box alignment
- Nature of coupling to the room
- Placement

I'm running a sealed .6Q 18" right now and I haven't done any measurements (yet). My guess would be that I'm not getting much room gain in the low end and amplifier energy is just being wasted there. Only once I've done some measurements will I be able to determine the best
alignment for getting good bass sound quality in my room. All I know is that I like it now, but it's nowhere near a finished project and I may have a lot of potential lying around untouched. I may tear the whole thing up this summer and build who-knows-what - a transmission line, a tapped horn, a sonosub. Or I may stick with this exact sealed alignment and get a second one.

The point is... you never know with bass. It's so dependant on the room, on the goals, even on the person. You always look to upgrade unless you're warpdrv and even then another person might not love the end result. There's no such thing as the "right choice", just the "better choice" and the best way to determine that is to take every factor into account - future plans, future budget, current budget, current room, individual zeal.

Getting the box and the driver right is only part of the equation. Where in one room a ported sub may sound perfect and a sealed sub may sound overly punchy, in another room a ported sub may sound boomy and a sealed sub just right, and in another room neither will be right.

Regarding 3 emotivas vs Paradigm Sub12? They're the same alignment so give me the multiples. When you get to 3 emotivas vs HSU it's just impossible to truly make a great judgement. You can guess and go with a gut fealing but you're basically bringing too many variables into the equation. You've already got multiple subs vs single sub from earlier, but now you've got to compare max output, extension, and even then a rough guestimate on in-room coupling and sound quality and distortion.

 

[clouso]

Ruined it how? Did anyone bash your sub? All anyone said is in that thread is that the paradigm subs are quality. The only "diy talk" was not directed at you anyways, it was directed at someone else's financial decision. No one would even bother trying to help you to get better results for your money because for you nothing else exists but paradigm.

HAHA..oh yes trust me a lot of other companys exists for me..thats why i have a Pioneer hdtv a samsung blu-ray player..paradigms speakers and an acer portable...just to name those...paradigm is not welcom here...the proove to it is that i also started a tread asking about a sub12 review '' from audioholic''.. and no one didnt even reply...management included....what ever...

 

[clouso]

Ruined it how? Did anyone bash your sub? All anyone said is in that thread is that the paradigm subs are quality. The only "diy talk" was not directed at you anyways, it was directed at someone else's financial decision. No one would even bother trying to help you to get better results for your money because for you nothing else exists but paradigm.

read it again...you were participating in the ruining...lol

 

[clouso]

BTW Matt34 it doesnt have to do with any brand i own..i just stated my opinion about a single or multiple subs! like all the others...read my first post...

 

[GranteedEV]

HAHA..oh yes trust me a lot of other companys exists for me..thats why i have a Pioneer hdtv a samsung blu-ray player..paradigms speakers and an acer portable...just to name those...paradigm is not welcom here...the proove to it is that i also started a tread asking about a sub12 review '' from audioholic''.. and no one didnt even reply...management included....what ever...

just off the top of my head

Warpdrv runs Paradigm S8s
KEW considers Paradigm S2s to be very nice speakers
Jerry Love runs Paradigm S2s
Oppman runs S8s

Just off the top of my head that`s four regular forum goers who "welcome" paradigm.

Regarding the main site I believe they've reviewed the S6s and definitely always give paradigm coverage on first looks.

Face it man, no brand except RBH will get everything reviewed anywhere.

Most publications take what they get and run with it. It's not the end of the world if teh Sub12 doesn't get reviewed, even if that's what you happen to own one. We'd all like Tom Andry to have to lug every single brand around and do a shootout every month. It's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with Paradigm being "unwelcome here" nor do DIYers look to hijack paradigm threads.

Only one thing rules on this site - Bang. For. Buck. And the truth is that the Paradigm subs really don't present much bang for buck, even if they're well designed.

The two subwoofers being discussed in this thread? Both excellent bang for buck. In the context of that there's simply no reason to bring the Sub12 or any other $2000 sub into the conversation. If there were then I'd tell the OP to go pick up a Danley DTS-20 or four.

read it again...you were participating in the ruining...lol

No, I don't see how I or anyone else ruined the thread. Apparently, no one else does either because the thread is still open.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're just being oversensitive and self absorbed. That's not how any internet forum works. I don't know what your expectations are but you need to change them.

 

[clouso]

Three 12 inch woofers do not have a radiating area equivalent to 36 inches (3*12). Two of the Emotivas would only have 28% more radiating area than a single HSU VTF-15H. If your math worked it would be over 2.5 times more radiating area which I admit would be pretty awesome, sadly not possible.

Regardless, you're comparing wattage on a ported 15 inch subwoofer to a sealed 12 inch? Apples to oranges, there's more to consider than just wattage, especially between those configurations.

Would 3 Emos beat the 15 inch HSU? I don't know, to be honest the HSU would probably play lower, however you'd have better control over room response with three subs than the one HSU. I'd personally go for two subs like the SVS PB10 or something similar, staying with ported design instead of sealed unless absolutely necessary (and I have a new sealed sub in my stereo system).

To the OP, with that size space and your budget I'd get multiples of a smaller ported sub rather than either option you asked about.

Watts and quality of constrution goes together..the build quality goes with the wattage.. a sealed sub with a big amp needs to be able to carry it after....thats why you pay more sometimes for quality subs....

 

[billy p]

HAHA..oh yes trust me a lot of other companys exists for me..thats why i have a Pioneer hdtv a samsung blu-ray player..paradigms speakers and an acer portable...just to name those...paradigm is not welcom here...the proove to it is that i also started a tread asking about a sub12 review '' from audioholic''.. and no one didnt even reply...management included....what ever...

Hah that is because Paradigm doesn't manufacture displays or BRP, otherwise....jk. Just for the record most members truly respect Paradigm as a manufacture(you just have to look at their sigs) and the Sub 12 is a nice sub but you could've done better going another route. I'm techincally challanged and I 'm not an expert on any subject which is why I usually remain under the radar....if you know what I mean...

Regards, Bill...

 

[clouso]

just off the top of my head

Warpdrv runs Paradigm S8s
KEW considers Paradigm S2s to be very nice speakers
Jerry Love runs Paradigm S2s
Oppman runs S8s

Just off the top of my head that`s four regular forum goers who "welcome" paradigm.

Regarding the main site I believe they've reviewed the S6s and definitely always give paradigm coverage on first looks.

Face it man, no brand except RBH will get everything reviewed anywhere.

Most publications take what they get and run with it. It's not the end of the world if teh Sub12 doesn't get reviewed, even if that's what you happen to own one. We'd all like Tom Andry to have to lug every single brand around and do a shootout every month. It's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with Paradigm being "unwelcome here" nor do DIYers look to hijack paradigm threads.

Only one thing rules on this site - Bang. For. Buck. And the truth is that the Paradigm subs really don't present much bang for buck, even if they're well designed.

The two subwoofers being discussed in this thread? Both excellent bang for buck. In the context of that there's simply no reason to bring the Sub12 or any other $2000 sub into the conversation. If there were then I'd tell the OP to go pick up a Danley DTS-20 or four.





No, I don't see how I or anyone else ruined the thread. Apparently, no one else does either because the thread is still open.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're just being oversensitive and self absorbed. That's not how any internet forum works. I don't know what your expectations are but you need to change them.

I dont know what your saying but it got reveiwed...anyway DIY guys are ok but not guys that are talking about other manufacturers.......

 

[GranteedEV]

Hah that is because Paradigm doesn't manufacture displays or BRP, otherwise....

http://www.anthemav.com/products/anthem/blu-ray/blx-200

 

[billy p]

http://www.anthemav.com/products/anthem/blu-ray/blx-200

Oh yeah...I forgot about them..... Not an expert holds true....

 

[emorphien]

OK so i try to understand..why NOTHING can break a Pardigm subwoofer?..i tried it all...loud volume...all the damn settings to max and at loud volume and those amps and woofers never break..?....my poor receiver went donw before...lower yes a sinlge 15 incher will play lower but ok you dont see the advantages of multiple subs....so instead of getting a second sub 12 i will get any 15 incher...but i was planning on quad sub12....but i know a single hsu would be better then quad paradigm sub12....

What are you talking about? I said nothing about you and your Paradigms.

Anyway as previous mentioned by others, setting your sub to the max and going "wow it didn't blow up!" is silly, a good sub should know its limits and back off before blowing itself up.

Watts and quality of constrution goes together..the build quality goes with the wattage.. a sealed sub with a big amp needs to be able to carry it after....thats why you pay more sometimes for quality subs....

Correlation does not imply causation. A well built sub or a high power sub need not be one in the same.

 

[clouso]

Hah that is because Paradigm doesn't manufacture displays or BRP, otherwise....jk. Just for the record most members truly respect Paradigm as a manufacture(you just have to look at their sigs) and the Sub 12 is a nice sub but you could've done better going another route. I'm techincally challanged and I 'm not an expert on any subject which is why I usually remain under the radar....if you know what I mean...

Regards, Bill...

I could have done better?...depending on the money you have dude...DIY guys build their own stuff cause they cant get the best for te price...and soon ill have quad sub12 and they will keep saying a single 18 incher is better..come on..

 

[emorphien]

I could have done better?...depending on the money you have dude...DIY guys build their own stuff cause they cant get the best for te price...and soon ill have quad sub12 and they will keep saying a single 18 incher is better..come on..

I suspect he's implying that you could probably get more bang for your buck with some of the internet direct brands and I wouldn't disagree with him on that.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying a single 18 incher is really better than four good 12 inchers.

 

[clouso]

What are you talking about? I said nothing about you and your Paradigms.

Anyway as previous mentioned by others, setting your sub to the max and going "wow it didn't blow up!" is silly, a good sub should know its limits and back off before blowing itself up.



Correlation does not imply causation. A well built sub or a high power sub need not be one in the same.

only making tests...i dont care changing...do you get it?..lol