gun question: M4 5.56 or .22lr

[mike c]

with christmas coming up, i won't be able to buy this before that ... but i'd like to get some opinions ... and sounding off helps me decide

M4 5.56

Pros
-real version

Cons
-recoil
-expensive ammo
-loud
-more dangerous due to penetration

M4 .22lr

Pros
-cheap ammo
-virtually no recoil
-less loud
-the "looks" without the price tag

Cons
-needs headshots for any kill (but i'm not really going to battle or fighting zombies)
-non full auto
-reviews point to less than perfect build quality

other option would be the .22lr GSG mp5 (HK MP5)

cons:
-there's a made in china one that takes "real" 9mm's
-stock model has fixed stock and not the telescopic stock

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Well, never used the .22, but 9mm AR-15 is pretty nice conversion as well, of-course doesn't have the penetration of 5.56mm but does better zombie stopping power and if remember correctly recoil wasn't bad ether..

 

[GlocksRock]

Recoil on a M4/AR-15 isn't bad at all, but of course it's a lot more than in a .22 lr. Personally I'd go with the real deal, but it just depends on how often you plan to shoot it, and if ammo costs is a real factor for you.

 

[just-some-guy]

if you get the .22. lmk, i think i still have 3 original steel mags for it.

 

[Vracer111]

Is the Sig 522 an option? Probably the most reliable, best quality, and fun .22 black rifle you can get...with non-proprietary magazines that are easily available to boot.

 

[mike c]

went to the gunstore last night (the one selling .22lr) and compared the plasticky GSG-5 .22lr (HK mp5 imitation) and the aluminum Colt M4 .22lr

between the two, GSG-5 is out. the store doesn't sell extra mags for the colt though.

it's available online, but the online store doesn't sell to california residents.

can that be circumvented by asking somebody out of state to order for me, and then ship it to my california address? or do all domestic packages get scanned?

Is the Sig 522 an option? Probably the most reliable, best quality, and fun .22 black rifle you can get...with non-proprietary magazines that are easily available to boot.

not really, i'm really just buying just for the looks.

 

[dkane360]

it's available online, but the online store doesn't sell to california residents.

can that be circumvented by asking somebody out of state to order for me, and then ship it to my california address? or do all domestic packages get scanned?

That's called a straw purchase, and that's a felony lol.

And I vote for the 5.56 if that's still an option

 

[mike c]

That's called a straw purchase, and that's a felony lol.

And I vote for the 5.56 is thats still an option

lol. sorry, am not really a california resident (my shipper is) and i'm not even a US citizen, so i don't know the gun laws there

what sucks though is that the m4 .22lr over there is less than 500 bucks. over here it's 1454usd

for some reason, i feel i won't be playing the 5.56 as much as the .22lr because i might be too scared to shoot it or that ammunition costs might be prohibitive.

 

[James NM]

... for some reason, i feel i won't be playing the 5.56 as much as the .22lr because i might be too scared to shoot it or that ammunition costs might be prohibitive.

I don't think you'll be too scared to shoot a 5.56. I don't think it's any more intimidating than the center fire handguns you recently purchased.

As to cost, the 5.56 is usually similar to handgun ammo - cheaper per round than some, more expensive than others. As far as the cost of centerfire rifle ammo goes, the 5.56 is a real bargain, second only to 7.62x39. Have you priced 5.56 (or.223) where you are?

I'd go with the 5.56 over the .22, unles you're just looking for a plinker. An option might be to buy the 5.56 and then to buy a .22 conversion kit for it. It can be converted form 5.56 to .22 and back again in a matter of minutes. Around here the conversion kits go for around $200 - not sure about BFE.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

On another topic Mike did you get the .357 issue solved?

 

[itschris]

A couple of things... is it a realy M4 or an AR15? They are essentially the same but there a some things that make an M4... well... an M4 as opposed to the more generic label AR15.

Also, 556 is more expensive than 223. Few newer AR's are 223 only. The rule is, a 556 can shoot 223, but you a designated 223 rifle should not shoot 556.

Beyond that, get the real deal. Resale value is higher on the 223/556. It's an investment. Also, I look at pretty much any weapon I buy as a dual purchase. I buy them because I want them, but they also serve a need... a more serious one... i.e., protection for any myriad of events... plausable and maybe not so much. I'm not sure what a 22lr version is going to do for you besides allow you to have a rifle that looks like a "real" one.

Now that being said, you can do what I do. I have a 22lr bolt conversion that allows me to run 22lr out of the rifle. It works on every AR I own and is nice if you just want to spend the day practicing fundamentals which I highly encourage you to do ... a lot.

I'm going shooting Saturday. I just bought a 1000 rounds of Federal (Lake City) 223 for $349. That's not horrible and is considerable better than it used to be. M855 556 is still around 45-55 cents per round mark from what I can tell. I bought a 1000 rounds of Privi Partisan M855 about a year ago and it cost $700 if I remember right so it's better, but not by much... but at least it's not quite as hard to come by these days.

One more thing to consider... a lot of optics designed for the AR have bullet drops calibrated for 223... usually 62gr rounds. That'll be not affective with 22lr. There might be optics calibrated for 22lr on an AR, but I don't know of any, though a normal Red Dot such as AimPoint or Eotech or quality versions of those from Primary Arms and Vortex will work just fine.

Bottom line, I say if money's an issue, just save some more and get the "real" deal for lack of a better description.

My 2 cents.

 

[mike c]

I don't think you'll be too scared to shoot a 5.56. I don't think it's any more intimidating than the center fire handguns you recently purchased.

As to cost, the 5.56 is usually similar to handgun ammo - cheaper per round than some, more expensive than others. As far as the cost of centerfire rifle ammo goes, the 5.56 is a real bargain, second only to 7.62x39. Have you priced 5.56 (or.223) where you are?

I'd go with the 5.56 over the .22, unles you're just looking for a plinker. An option might be to buy the 5.56 and then to buy a .22 conversion kit for it. It can be converted form 5.56 to .22 and back again in a matter of minutes. Around here the conversion kits go for around $200 - not sure about BFE.

A couple of things... is it a realy M4 or an AR15? They are essentially the same but there a some things that make an M4... well... an M4 as opposed to the more generic label AR15.

Also, 556 is more expensive than 223. Few newer AR's are 223 only. The rule is, a 556 can shoot 223, but you a designated 223 rifle should not shoot 556.

Beyond that, get the real deal. Resale value is higher on the 223/556. It's an investment. Also, I look at pretty much any weapon I buy as a dual purchase. I buy them because I want them, but they also serve a need... a more serious one... i.e., protection for any myriad of events... plausable and maybe not so much. I'm not sure what a 22lr version is going to do for you besides allow you to have a rifle that looks like a "real" one.

Now that being said, you can do what I do. I have a 22lr bolt conversion that allows me to run 22lr out of the rifle. It works on every AR I own and is nice if you just want to spend the day practicing fundamentals which I highly encourage you to do ... a lot.

I'm going shooting Saturday. I just bought a 1000 rounds of Federal (Lake City) 223 for $349. That's not horrible and is considerable better than it used to be. M855 556 is still around 45-55 cents per round mark from what I can tell. I bought a 1000 rounds of Privi Partisan M855 about a year ago and it cost $700 if I remember right so it's better, but not by much... but at least it's not quite as hard to come by these days.

One more thing to consider... a lot of optics designed for the AR have bullet drops calibrated for 223... usually 62gr rounds. That'll be not affective with 22lr. There might be optics calibrated for 22lr on an AR, but I don't know of any, though a normal Red Dot such as AimPoint or Eotech or quality versions of those from Primary Arms and Vortex will work just fine.

Bottom line, I say if money's an issue, just save some more and get the "real" deal for lack of a better description.

My 2 cents.

i guess the conversion kit is something that should be looked into, i have a question on the magazine of the "converted" rifle, who makes that? the gunsmith?

i haven't really asked on the price of 5.56 ammo because they're not really for consumer use (just like the rifle itself). so i'll be doing some legal maneuvering to get one. 9mm's cost 57cents, .357's cost 71cents, .22lr cost .15cents apiece.

the .22lr is really a Colt M4 (made by Walther under license).
i don't have any info on the 5.56 yet, but that it would cost me at the minimum 2800usd.

On another topic Mike did you get the .357 issue solved?

i've gotten it back from the gunsmith, store said he "adjusted something" and they shot it about 14x and didn't encounter my problem. i've been procrastinating trying it out myself, i should do so today.

on another note, i got me a couple of HKS 587A speedloaders for it how many should one keep for "emergency purposes?"

home defense

do you keep your guns loaded or unloaded?

 

[m-fine]

on another note, i got me a couple of HKS 587A speedloaders for it how many should one keep for "emergency purposes?"

All of them

do you keep your guns loaded or unloaded?

An unloaded gun is a bad substitute for a hammer. They are much more useful loaded.

 

[mike c]

All of them



An unloaded gun is a bad substitute for a hammer. They are much more useful loaded.

no, i meant, how many speedloaders should i have PER revolver?

so you keep your revolvers loaded because they're harder to pull hammer uncocked?

SA's also loaded but not chambered?

 

[itschris]

You can get 556, it's not restricted... just harder to come by. I try to keep 3-5K of rounds on hand, I'd say it's 50/50 between 556 and 223. On the conversion bolt, the kit I have came with 2 mags... they're sorda this hard plastic... same size as a normal AR mag, but obviously different internally. I've given this some more thought... for the AR platform, I'd really recommend sticking with a true AR15 or M4 in 556/223. If you're going to have one AR make it count and keep it standardized and true to the platform. If you already had one, I'd say "sure" get a caliber variant, but for your first AR, stay true and have a tried and true solid rifle that will get you through anything.

 

[m-fine]

If it is not in the safe, trunk of the car or in a range box for transport, it is loaded, including the chamber. If you need it, you may not have time and two free hands to load and chamber a round.

As for speed loaders, it depends on how many shots you might need. Are you worried about a lone intruder or an angry mob? If the later, I would go with something chain fed like an M-60 in 7.62.

 

[James NM]

... M855 556 is still around 45-55 cents per round mark from what I can tell. I bought a 1000 rounds of Privi Partisan M855 about a year ago and it cost $700 if I remember right so it's better, but not by much... but at least it's not quite as hard to come by these days ...

Actually, M855 can be had even cheaper. Here's some Lake City for about .35, with freight about .38 or .39. http://www.natchezshooterssupply.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM855PD&prodTitle=Federal Lake City 223 Rem/5.56 62gr XM855/SS109 Green Tip 1000/Box

 

[James NM]

i guess the conversion kit is something that should be looked into, i have a question on the magazine of the "converted" rifle, who makes that? the gunsmith?

i haven't really asked on the price of 5.56 ammo because they're not really for consumer use (just like the rifle itself). so i'll be doing some legal maneuvering to get one. 9mm's cost 57cents, .357's cost 71cents, .22lr cost .15cents apiece.

the .22lr is really a Colt M4 (made by Walther under license).
i don't have any info on the 5.56 yet, but that it would cost me at the minimum 2800usd.

The .22 mags are manufactured for whatever conversion kit you buy.

Is .223 ammo restricted too or just 5.56?

If you decide on a .22, and if it's available where you are, look into the S&W M&P15-22. I don't have experience with it or the Colt (Umarex), but it seems to me to be more highly thought of.

 

[Warpdrv]

I got a line on an AK47... Kalashnikov

Very Hard to find, just waiting to see how this pans out... Hope it does....


The Woman had that 556 "Black Diamond Specter XL YHM-15 Carbine" and it was alot of fun....
She had an M4, but she gave it to one of her M8's to use back in combat.... I'm sure with the verbal that she'd get it back when he was done with it....

 

[itschris]

Actually, M855 can be had even cheaper. Here's some Lake City for about .35, with freight about .38 or .39. http://www.natchezshooterssupply.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM855PD&prodTitle=Federal Lake City 223 Rem/5.56 62gr XM855/SS109 Green Tip 1000/Box

Yeah you're right about that.. I was talking more local pricing. Wideners and others do have better deals, but supply is somewhat spotty.