Does Anyone else own Canton Speakers?

[InTheIndustry]

Part 1 of a 3 part answer....

1.)Since that you have heard and sold so many speakers, I'm interested in knowing what your favorite brand is? What brand would you buy if budget was not an option?

2.)Since you know I like the sound of Canton's, what other brands do you think I would like? Anything that sounds similar? I live in South Dakota and the only audio store is in a town 55 miles away and that is a Best Buy.

Sorry to pick your brain, but being you're one of the few I have found that have even heard these... I'm curious as to what you think. Speakers that I wish I could hear... Emptek, PSB, Ascends, Aperion, Paradigm, Swan and Axiom. Any of these sound like Canton?

1.) This is a question in which the answer is always determined by variables. My favorite speaker system ever is the dARTS by Phase Technology. Properly installed, it essentially sounds the same in every room it's in, which is to say..... the finest I have experienced.

Other than that one favorite, there are hundreds of speaker brands to choose from and literally 1000s of speakers that can meet or exceed one's expectations. I approach system design for our clients from a problem solving perspective. This 100% affects how I view different products from different manufacturers (including speakers). So before I can begin to answer which is best I must 1st determine: For what?

Think about the variables for a moment...
- What will look AND perform best in room size “X” while meeting the client's aesthetic needs (this can ALWAYS be done & should be considered): On or in-wall or floor standing or in-ceiling?
- Where will these be placed & can they fit there?
- What colors are available if visible?
- Dimensional concerns?
- Theater or Stereo or both?
- Any cabinetry concerns?
And on & on & on into an endless list of combinations.

The only major thing I cannot always account for with any brand or model is aesthetics. Regardless of how a speaker sounds, sometimes people want or need a certain look or size. If Canton/Tannoy/Totem/etc., for example, doesn't look the way a client wants then it isn't solving their problem completely, right? That’s why nearly all of the “What should I buy” threads are impossible for anyone to give truly good advice in…. They rarely have enough information, which is why I usually leave them alone. That, and anyone spending a lot of energy researching or answering what the “best” $300 or less pair of tower speakers are probably have entirely too much time on their hands.

In our industry the question you asked me is a very serious challenge for the consumer/dealer relationship. I refer to this as the difference between an “end user” focused approach & what I would call a “moving boxes” approach. These are two totally different schools of thought. One marries the dealer/integrator to the client & the client’s needs at all costs. The other marries the dealer/integrator to the manufacturer or brand.

To answer your question as simply as possible: My favorite speaker brand is whichever one most completely solves a client’s particular set of problems (this could be quality of sound/experience, looks, placement, durability, etc.) for the absolute lowest possible cost.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Part 2 of a 3 part answer....

1.)Since that you have heard and sold so many speakers, I'm interested in knowing what your favorite brand is? What brand would you buy if budget was not an option?

2.)Since you know I like the sound of Canton's, what other brands do you think I would like? Anything that sounds similar? I live in South Dakota and the only audio store is in a town 55 miles away and that is a Best Buy.

Sorry to pick your brain, but being you're one of the few I have found that have even heard these... I'm curious as to what you think. Speakers that I wish I could hear... Emptek, PSB, Ascends, Aperion, Paradigm, Swan and Axiom. Any of these sound like Canton?

To not totally skirt around your question I can list some brands that I have used to solve a lot of common problems in people’s homes. These brands offer particular models that I would consider world class performance & build quality in their market space (price point) as long as the application falls within the scope of the engineer's intended use. There are no absolutes, by the way. Some companies engineer & design one or two killer models & the rest could be a bunch of dogs. In those cases I'll cherry pick the models that are great & ignore the rest. Others have one or two engineers that are specialized and overlook nothing in their design process while maintaining the absolute highest standards all the way through their line.

Lots of companies are different & there is no set way any of these businesses are structured for success. What makes this all particularly tricky for consumers is that things aren't always price point related. Understanding the history of a company from a business & engineering sense, as well as the people running it is very important, IMO. For me as an integrator/dealer, this help me to understand and assign value. Unfortunately, without a lot of time (as in YEARS – I’ve put in roughly 11) building honest relationships & doing truly unbiased research to put together a clear picture & understanding of the A/V industry there is little to no chance a consumer would ever be able to realistically do this.

It would be an amazing book if someone were to put together a HUGE family tree of the audio industry. Something like the “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon”. I think people would be shocked and floored to the ground if they knew which companies really made what, when, and how. It’s a very close knit industry.

Anyway, enough of that stuff. In my experience the following brands have various models of speakers that offer world class products in their designed market space (price point) that are capable of solving almost any possible problem while leaving very little, if anything, to be desired. In the end, it's all 100% dependent on what the variables are.

Right now, in 2010, I could realistically solve most people’s audio related problems regardless of variables (save for aesthetics), even within the most modest or extravagant budgets and expectations, with just the following brands…..
- Phase Technology
- Canton
- BG
- TruAudio
- Jamo
- Totem
- Tannoy
- PSB
- Dayton Audio (most specifically lower cost outdoor & rock speakers)

While I believe the above brands can offer “Wow” in their price points I’m also readily admitting that there are 1000s of speaker models, brands, etc. that I have never personally seen or used in real world scenarios. This is why I am always reading about and experimenting with new brands/models/etc. I’ll give any speaker/manufacturer a try. I don’t know what I don’t know so I’m always ready to experiment with the next thing to come across my desk.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Part 3 of a 3 part answer....

1.)Since that you have heard and sold so many speakers, I'm interested in knowing what your favorite brand is? What brand would you buy if budget was not an option?

2.)Since you know I like the sound of Canton's, what other brands do you think I would like? Anything that sounds similar? I live in South Dakota and the only audio store is in a town 55 miles away and that is a Best Buy.

Sorry to pick your brain, but being you're one of the few I have found that have even heard these... I'm curious as to what you think. Speakers that I wish I could hear... Emptek, PSB, Ascends, Aperion, Paradigm, Swan and Axiom. Any of these sound like Canton?

As to the 2nd part of your post, well, that’s really hard for me to accurately answer. Always remember this: With only a handful of exceptions that I call “closed” speaker systems (like Phase Tech’s dARTS), a speaker can only sound its best in the room it was designed to do so in. As soon as any parameters of that room are changed, the sound changes with it in some way, shape, or form. This also holds true when considering speaker placement, surfaces in the room, etc. All of these things change the sound of a particular model. If the room stays the same, I don’t think any two speakers sound exactly alike. A lot of times people put too much speaker in their room. They select the one with more drivers, the higher price tag or whatever without really knowing what that speaker was engineered to do or what the other models in that line’s “family” are really capable of, again, in their room.

That’s one of the reasons I like Canton. They make everything, even the magnets, in-house & from the ground up. Their tech support/service is outstanding. They will listen to whatever problem you’re trying to solve, ask you about your room, listening preferences/habits and then recommend the best solution based on simple science. There are a few other companies like this out there that design & manufacture all or most of their speaker’s components in-house or closely with other, more resource heavy, manufacturers. A couple of them can be found in my list from part 2.

I hope my experiences in this stuff are somewhat interesting and easy to follow for you or anyone else out there who happens to be reading. It’s a fascinating industry to me, but really really tough to adequately cover in a forum post. Like I said, a book pulling the curtains back would be a pretty interesting read for anyone who’s an audio enthusiast or even a business student for that matter.

 

[majorloser]

If any of you guys has a pair of Reference 1.2 or 2.2 DC's they want to give me, send me a PM so I can give you my address.

(doesn't hurt to ask)


I'd love to move up into either the Reference or Vento series. But for now I'll live with the Ergos.

 

[InTheIndustry]

If any of you guys has a pair of Reference 1.2 or 2.2 DC's they want to give me, send me a PM so I can give you my address.

(doesn't hurt to ask)


I'd love to move up into either the Reference or Vento series. But for now I'll live with the Ergos.

You let me know when you're ready & I'll deliver the References personally. Hell, at 250+ lbs. it would be cheaper for me to drive them down myself!

 

[majorloser]

You let me know when you're ready & I'll deliver the References personally. Hell, at 250+ lbs. it would be cheaper for me to drive them down myself!

I'd drive up.

 

[InTheIndustry]

I'd drive up.

Let me know when you're ready! I'll get them to you at my dealer sheet cost & even help you load them up!

 

[its phillip]

If any of you guys has a pair of Reference 1.2 or 2.2 DC's they want to give me, send me a PM so I can give you my address.

(doesn't hurt to ask)

Let me know when you're ready! I'll get them to you at my dealer sheet cost & even help you load them up!

Unless your cost is $0, that doesn't sound like giving speakers away to me :O

 

[majorloser]

Unless your cost is $0, that doesn't sound like giving speakers away to me :O

Dealer cost is still a significant discount. Granted, when talking about speakers this expensive, it's still a buttload of money.

 

[highfigh]

One of the main reasons they aren't carried widely is dealer margin. I called and got an updated price sheet this week after realizing mine was old and their margin proposition is now well below avg. vs. the below avg./avg they had been offering. Their brochure is spectacularly put together, though! But brochures don't sell speakers.... People do. And people want paid.

In my opinion, quality wise I would put Canton speakers, excluding in-walls & subwoofers, from top to bottom (meaning: if you look at all of their speakers from the least expensive to the most) in the upper 10% of all commercially available brands. Build quality wise I can think of no better. That's not to say unequaled. Just no better on a consistent basis.

If a dealer wants to match Amazon prices, there's nothing wrong with the margins (for the GLE series), IMO. If this isn't enough profit for a dealer, they need to streamline their operation. Sure beats selling TVs.

Sure, it's nice to be able to say a speaker is heavily discounted but that's not really selling- it's coming close enough to the price for something comparable from someone else. In the old days, we overcame people's objections with facts, not by dropping our shorts to make the sale. Once low price started to be the main justification for buying, it became a free-for-all.

 

[highfigh]

Dealer cost is still a significant discount. Granted, when talking about speakers this expensive, it's still a buttload of money.

It may seem so, but in that price range, there's no such thing as 'cash and carry'. The high end equipment needs a lot more setup and the customers' expectations are so high that any little flaw is noticed, whether it's in the physical or experiential aspects. Speakers are the one thing most people listen to, critically. They're also the one part of the system that directly interfaces with the room, sonically. That makes it possible to select a speaker that's just wrong for a given room and there's no way to accurately express the feeling that comes from thinking that a speaker is the right one and realizing that it clearly isn't after they have been set up, broken in and demonstrated for the client.

When people think nothing of asking a dealer or integrator a million questions and buying online at the lowest price, it becomes impossible to make enough to stay in business unless the overhead is almost zero. Another thing I have run into with some products when the manufacturer doesn't limit online sales is a wholesaler that has a retail branch and they can beat even the largest chain stores' prices because distributors profit when they sell to dealers and they sometimes sell online for less than dealer cost. Most TVs are sold at/below cost, especially at Best Buy. They expect their sales people to also sell extended warranties and accessories with every TV and when they don't, they lose. Fine by me, since I can sell the accessories and extended warranty, myself. If I have to handle the TV, wait for it to be delivered/pick it up, open/inspect it and I match a price, I have already lost money. If it's a model they don't sell, I can make a few bucks- at least enough to make it worth my time.

The saying 'We lose money on every one, but we make it up in volume!" exists for a reason.

 

[InTheIndustry]

If a dealer wants to match Amazon prices, there's nothing wrong with the margins (for the GLE series), IMO. If this isn't enough profit for a dealer, they need to streamline their operation. Sure beats selling TVs.

Sure, it's nice to be able to say a speaker is heavily discounted but that's not really selling- it's coming close enough to the price for something comparable from someone else. In the old days, we overcame people's objections with facts, not by dropping our shorts to make the sale. Once low price started to be the main justification for buying, it became a free-for-all.

Two schools of business thought here though, right? Volume vs. quality of sale. Even at full MSRP, how many pair of GLE speakers would a dealer have to sell in a week to break even and then make a profit? Answer.... More than if he was selling brands "XYZ". That's all I meant by comment about the margin on Canton.

Which is why we're a project based business. I'll sell a pair of MSRP $1000 speakers for $1 if it makes someone happy, but installation, wire & cable is going to be $999. Or, I can sell the speakers for $1000 & install it for free & include the wire & cable at no charge. It's all about percieved value & adding value to a project by actually working in a client's home rather than "Here's your box.... see you around".

Also, you have to consider cost of living varrying across different parts of the country. The profit $ for a dealer in Washington DC doesn't go as far as it does for someone in say, Lexington, KY. Which, when coupled with the whole volume proposition, is why online sales can hurt local A/V companies that are "box" focused. In the end, though, it's all about the project.

The internet doesn't bother me one bit. We don't focus on moving "boxes". We solve people's technology wants and problems and the internet can't really do that very well. But that's where your typical, brand focused dealers get caught up in a mess. They don't want to work to add value. They just want to hand out boxes. Well, that's the easy part, IMO, and it shouldn't pay very well unless you're doing volume. That's where the internet will kill a local guy.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Unless your cost is $0, that doesn't sound like giving speakers away to me :O

The speakers are totally free! But admission into my office to pick them up is around $21,000. Cash up front. See, it's all about perceived value.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Dealer cost is still a significant discount. Granted, when talking about speakers this expensive, it's still a buttload of money.

You aren't kidding! The reference pieces are very expensive, even at my cost. Heck, even if I order them for my show room, Canton's demo discount is very slim.

 

[InTheIndustry]

It may seem so, but in that price range, there's no such thing as 'cash and carry'. The high end equipment needs a lot more setup and the customers' expectations are so high that any little flaw is noticed, whether it's in the physical or experiential aspects. Speakers are the one thing most people listen to, critically. They're also the one part of the system that directly interfaces with the room, sonically. That makes it possible to select a speaker that's just wrong for a given room and there's no way to accurately express the feeling that comes from thinking that a speaker is the right one and realizing that it clearly isn't after they have been set up, broken in and demonstrated for the client.

When people think nothing of asking a dealer or integrator a million questions and buying online at the lowest price, it becomes impossible to make enough to stay in business unless the overhead is almost zero. Another thing I have run into with some products when the manufacturer doesn't limit online sales is a wholesaler that has a retail branch and they can beat even the largest chain stores' prices because distributors profit when they sell to dealers and they sometimes sell online for less than dealer cost. Most TVs are sold at/below cost, especially at Best Buy. They expect their sales people to also sell extended warranties and accessories with every TV and when they don't, they lose. Fine by me, since I can sell the accessories and extended warranty, myself. If I have to handle the TV, wait for it to be delivered/pick it up, open/inspect it and I match a price, I have already lost money. If it's a model they don't sell, I can make a few bucks- at least enough to make it worth my time.

The saying 'We lose money on every one, but we make it up in volume!" exists for a reason.

This is an excellent post from begining to end!

I would like to add to it by pointing out that big box companies also get back end rebates & spiffs like crazy on TVs & that's incentivized by volume. The store sees company cost as one $ figure & they can't go below that, but after rebates & spiffs, the cost changes. Sometimes dramatically. Almost like a car dealership. Speaker companies do it as well, but to a lesser degree.

Also, I stock almost NOTHING and absolutely for the life of me can't understand why other dealers do. Two reasons.... 1: This alows me to only recommend to clients what they need, NOT what I have on hand so I can get out from under dead money. This results in people getting exactly what they need & not what I have to sell. And 2: Tying my money up in product that just sits around for no reason is a complete waste of resources.

 

[DLeague]

I joining late, but I think the question about Canton speakers is still valid in 2018. They are on par with B&W, KEF, Focal and almost any American brand. They are expensive and few people will pay the list price. I have several sets of Pardigm speakers (Classic Monitor 11 7V, and Studio 20), the less expensive GLE 426 will give the Studio 20 a run for its money. Although speakers like the Studio 20 give more presence, the GLE speaker matches it with detail. My next high end speaker will be a Canton speaker.

 

[KEW]

I joining late, but I think the question about Canton speakers is still valid in 2018. They are on par with B&W, KEF, Focal and almost any American brand. They are expensive and few people will pay the list price. I have several sets of Pardigm speakers (Classic Monitor 11 7V, and Studio 20), the less expensive GLE 426 will give the Studio 20 a run for its money. Although speakers like the Studio 20 give more presence, the GLE speaker matches it with detail. My next high end speaker will be a Canton speaker.

Just wanted to make sure you know that A4L is selling the Cantons at some nice discounts:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/brand_category/canton/1.html