Time to buy a gun ... again

[spl_nut]

I disagree this is, although it is a little hard on the furniture

Atchisson Assault full auto, low recoil 12ga shotgun...

Mine's a Mossberg 500 in 20" 8rnd fashion. Rifled slugs are remarkably destructive - NOT a round recommended for home defense use.

Mike: See if you can get some lane time for your wife with a small or medium framed 4" .357 - Start with mild .38 special loads. Only your experiences will tell what's right.

Good luck!

 

[spl_nut]

Here's my 2 pennies worth:

First, I'm not a fan of ported barrels for a self defense gun. If you have to use a handgun for self defense, the distance to bad guy will almost certainly be measured in feet, rather than yards (do your own conversion to the metric system). If you stick your gun out in a classic two hand shooting stance, the bad guy is probably close enough to grab the gun from you. Because of this, shooting from the retention position (holding the gun one handed and close to the body) is very likely. A ported barrel shoots hot gasses towards the shooters face, rather than straight out the barrel. Shooting a ported gun from the retention position is not a pleasant experience. Serious injuries to the shooter can and has occurred. Additionally, since most self defense shootings happen at night in low light conditions, the muzzle blast directed at the shooter's face from a ported barrel will probably cause temporary blindness (even if the gasses don't cause permanent eye damage). Porting is a great idea for a competition/race/hunting handgun, but I'd pass for self defense.

James, a few people here might not know what retention shooting is ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SvrpLdBUw ), and therefore not understand why a ported gun isn't a good idea.

That said, I think the average person who owns a handgun for personal defense probably wouldn't be trained well enough to know when to use this method.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Patrukas777]

My local dealer for .50 http://www.serbu.com/

now thats a purty gun

 

[m-fine]

James, a few people here might not know what retention shooting is ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SvrpLdBUw ), and therefore not understand why a ported gun isn't a good idea.

That said, I think the average person who owns a handgun for personal defense probably wouldn't be trained well enough to know when to use this method.

Just thinking out loud.

Exactly. This should be a 100% non-factor for a first home defense gun for a wife. She won't be trained for it, it is not a typical home defense situation, I don't want my wife to wait that long to fire, and if an intruder does get that close, powder burns are not one of my main concerns.

I would much rather she have a gun she is comfortable with and confident with for the other 99.9% of shooting situations. If that means ported, it is a minor sacrifice. Keep in mind, in the vast majority of real self defense situations, the gun is never fired. Just having it gets you more than 90% of the benefit.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I might also add that a well placed first shot with a full power .357 load will solve just about any home invasion situation. No need to fire off as many rds as that guy did and you would not with a revolver anyway. Those are more tactical training techniques for advanced shooters. Also, some of us here know exactly what retention shooting is and in fact some of us here know a hell of a lot about firearms. Mikes topic is about a first time gun for his wife not advanced tactical shooting techniques. Ported or non ported as said above is non issue other than the fact that it may be a better choice for someone who might be nervous about recoil.

 

[SteveSatch]

I got a gun for my wife.......best trade ever : )

 

[m-fine]

It does not mater if your gun is ported or not, heck it does not even matter if it is a zucchini!

http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20100923/dfc4a6d7-a102-405b-979f-c841f5b33cad

 

[jeffsg4mac]

It does not mater if your gun is ported or not, heck it does not even matter if it is a zucchini!

http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20100923/dfc4a6d7-a102-405b-979f-c841f5b33cad

I would have thought that a zucchini might fend off an attacking lesbian not a bear. Wow!

 

[tcarcio]

OK, I didn't read the whole thread but I will just say one thing.......NEVER GIVE THE WIFE A GUN......just saying......

 

[m-fine]

OK, I didn't read the whole thread but I will just say one thing.......NEVER GIVE THE WIFE A GUN......just saying......

Actually, I think that if you realize your life depends on keeping your wife happy and not cheating, you will put more energy into maintaining your marriage and both of you will be happier for it.

Now if you can't keep your pants on, then I suggest avoiding marriage all together and barring that, definitely don't arm your wife, or any of your mistresses.

 

[mike c]

i'll be checking out the HS2000 today to see if it's a good fit for the hand.

 

[tcarcio]

Actually, I think that if you realize your life depends on keeping your wife happy and not cheating, you will put more energy into maintaining your marriage and both of you will be happier for it.

Now if you can't keep your pants on, then I suggest avoiding marriage all together and barring that, definitely don't arm your wife, or any of your mistresses.

I was actually thinking about PMS but your point works too.....

 

[m-fine]

i'll be checking out the HS2000 today to see if it's a good fit for the hand.

Hey, we are on page 12 already! Time to **** or get off the pot! Pick one or three and buy them. Once you get some experience you can then buy more.

 

[m-fine]

I was actually thinking about PMS but your point works too.....

PMS is nothing, surviving pregnancy is the real challenge.

Just remember, one phrase you should NEVER say to a pregnant woman; "you don't have the guts to pull the trigger, FATSO!"

 

[mike c]

good trip today. 3 stores

managed to check out:
HS2000 variants 4"ers and 5"ers, single color and two tone, ported, different calibres
taurus 627 and 617 (brought the wife with me)
taurus SA's
sig sauer 229 9mm (7 bullet capacity)
ruger 4" .357 and 2" hammerless .38

questions and comments:
1) wife said the 4" revolver should be ok weight wise
2) my wife's gun is going to be heavier than mine
3) polymer grip metal slide seems to be top heavy, but i'm not complaining, love the lightweight
4) should i get 9mm semi auto or .40?
5) should i get the 4 or 5" (catch of the 5 would be it's uglier)
6) two tone ok?
7) ruger is way too expensive for a wife gun

oh, finally got an actual pic of the two tone HS2000 9mm 4" barrel ...

 

[m-fine]

1 agree
2 yes, heavier is less recoil.
3 balance is different with loaded mag but yes they are top heavy
4 I much prefer .40, especially from 4" or 3" barrels, either will work most of the time but 40 has more power without being harder to handle.
5 4" for a gun you may carry, for home defense, either will do. The velocity difference will be larger in 9mm than .40 in my experience due to different powder burn rates.
6 personal preference. Stainless had advantages as far as maintenance, mat black is harder for others to see in the dark.
7 Can you really put a price on your wife's happiness?

 

[mike c]

1 agree
2 yes, heavier is less recoil.
3 balance is different with loaded mag but yes they are top heavy
4 I much prefer .40, especially from 4" or 3" barrels, either will work most of the time but 40 has more power without being harder to handle.
5 4" for a gun you may carry, for home defense, either will do. The velocity difference will be larger in 9mm than .40 in my experience due to different powder burn rates.
6 personal preference. Stainless had advantages as far as maintenance, mat black is harder for others to see in the dark.
7 Can you really put a price on your wife's happiness?

why is the .40 better with the shorter barrels?
why do i want more power? for people killing? or is that "stopping power" for disabling target asap

 

[lsiberian]

I think we've had a great discussion, but at some point you are gonna have to make a choice and learn to live with the shortcomings of it. Hopefully you never have to use it.

 

[m-fine]

why is the .40 better with the shorter barrels?
why do i want more power? for people killing? or is that "stopping power" for disabling target asap

The .40 as designed with a 4" barrel in mind. I don't know if it is the shape of the case or the choice of powders used, but the 40's seem to burn the powder a touch faster which means much of the velocity is achieved in a 4" barrel. A 5" barrel will give you a little bit more muzzle velocity in eithe caliber.

Killing someone does not take a big bullet. The problem is if they are an armed attacker, having them bleed to death in 15 minutes or die from organ failure in a matter of hours won't do you a darn bit of good. The idea of "stopping power" is to end an attack as quickly as possible. That could be because the attacker chooses to stop, because they are incapacitated, or because they are killed near instantly. Other than a hit to the brain, the instant death thing is pretty much for Hollywood. Ask any hunter, it takes a heck of a lot more power than a handgun to instantly kill a deer. A .300 magnum with the same weight bullet as a .40 S&W going 3 times as fast (9 times the kinetic energy) will do it maybe half the time with well placed shots. Maybe. As far as incapacitation, the .40 will make a significantly bigger wound channel and punch through more bone, clothing, obsticals, etc. compared to a smaller, lighter 9mm, which increases the chances that the attacker will stop. It's an odds thing.

 

[m-fine]

FWIW, I relied on a 9mm Keltec with a 3" barrel for a couple of years until they cam out with the now discontinued .40 version. It's not like a 9 won't work, most of the time caliber is irrelevant because you won't even have to pull the trigger. If you do have to shoot, 9mm will work most of the time. You are going to have to be pretty unlucky to need more.

That said, the cost of going to a .40 is usually minimal. In my keltec I had to give up 1 round in the mag in exchange for the extra power. I find the recoil difference to be a non-factor. I also got to use the same .40 round in the keltec as my Sig P229 which has it's benefits. The big plus is I simply feel more confident that a .40 will get the job done if I ever need it.