Analog preouts vrs. optical out?

[ahblaza]

Hello,
I have a non HDMI receiver with PS3 Slim as BD player, HDMI from player to TV and digital optical to receiver. I am considering a stand alone BD player with 7.1 analog preouts to interface with MCH inputs on my receiver. This question has probably been asked a lot but I will ask again, will there be any significant audio improvement with the analog outs over the optical cable? I'm not ready to upgrade my receiver yet but willing to get a stand alone player if it warrants the purchase. I look forward to your replies, thanks for the time.
jnordi

 

[its phillip]

Since your receiver doesn't have hdmi I will assume it doesn't support the newer audio formats either...so in that case, no, I wouldn't recommend it. You'll still only be getting lossy DD 5.1/DTS tracks if that's all your receiver supports, analog or optical. If your receiver DOES have support for the new audio codecs, then the multichannel analog connections will carry them (unlike the optical cable) and it might be worth purchasing a new player.


Personally I'd just save the money from buying a new player and put it towards a new receiver.

 

[ahblaza]

Since your receiver doesn't have hdmi I will assume it doesn't support the newer audio formats either...so in that case, no, I wouldn't recommend it. You'll still only be getting lossy DD 5.1/DTS tracks if that's all your receiver supports, analog or optical. If your receiver DOES have support for the new audio codecs, then the multichannel analog connections will carry them (unlike the optical cable) and it might be worth purchasing a new player.


Personally I'd just save the money from buying a new player and put it towards a new receiver.

I was under the impression that the BD player would decode the new codecs and send this PCM through the 7.1 audio preouts to the receivers MCH inputs. Why else would there be 7.1 preouts on BD player, I thought this was for Legacy receivers without HDMI. I also thought the analog preout cables could pass LPCM signal!

 

[its phillip]

oh well i dunno then >_>

if you're right (you probably are), then by all means, go for it

 

[yepimonfire]

it will decode the audio and convert it to analog, if you want lossless 7.1 sound the analog outputs would be the way to go if you have no hdmi. analog outs do NOT send pcm since pcm is a digital signal. they send a raw audio signal and are compatible with any analog inputs.

 

[dkane360]

I used the 7.1 analog outs from my BDP-320 (which I highly recommend) to my Denon AVR-3300 before I got my new receiver. It worked fine

There was something I read somewhere that you might have to boost the bass because of how it sends the LFE channel though, so just be aware of that. I'll try and find the link.

And yes, using 7.1 analog out to a 7.1 analog in on your receiver will give you the lossless tracks. You just won't be able to do any matrixing of rear channels if its only a 5.1 mix. The receiver won't do any digital management of the sound either, so that all has to be done in the br player.

 

[bandphan]

^ bass management is always the issue with multi ch inputs on an AVR. The isn't anything wrong with this method, just be diligent about the setup.

 

[ahblaza]

^ bass management is always the issue with multi ch inputs on an AVR. The isn't anything wrong with this method, just be diligent about the setup.

Bandphan,
Could you please explain diligent about setup, thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

I was under the impression that the BD player would decode the new codecs and send this PCM through the 7.1 audio preouts to the receivers MCH inputs. Why else would there be 7.1 preouts on BD player, I thought this was for Legacy receivers without HDMI. I also thought the analog preout cables could pass LPCM signal!

You are correct. He needs to use the analog inputs. However he must have the player, do channel level, bass management and delay.

 

[bandphan]

Bandphan,
Could you please explain diligent about setup, thanks

Depending on your avr, as mentioned, bass management needs to be handled in the BD player. Some AVRs have a 10db bass boost feature for multi ch inputs. Remember the these inputs bypass room correction software, so manual setup for each channel level will be required. Again exactly how is dependent on the actual products you have and are purchasing. Another thing to consider is how much better are the lossless codecs compared to DD and dts? Is you room correction software more important than this difference?

 

[timmay8612]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but what is the real world difference between the new codecs compared with DD and DTS? Are these only had with Bluray, or do PS3 games on BR also use these codecs?

 

[Seth=L]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but what is the real world difference between the new codecs compared with DD and DTS? Are these only had with Bluray, or do PS3 games on BR also use these codecs?

DTS and Dolby Digital are lossy formats. To put that into perspective, MP3 is a lossy format. When you compress data is forgon. Most times it is not immediately evident that data is missing. When the soundtrack becomes complex (crescendos, explosions, intense action) the pitfalls of compression can be noticed by strain in dynamics or just a smere of noise. Dolby Digital and DTS typically do an excellent job, and most people would be hard pressed to notice a difference with many sound tracks. Some Blu-ray soundtracks that are encoded in Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA are noticeably more dynamic than their counterpart DVD soundtracks in legacy Dolby Digital and/or DTS.

DTS: maximum data transfer rate - 1509.75 kbit/s (1.5 Mbit/s)


DTS-HD MA: maximum data transfer rate - 24.5 Mbit/s

Dolby Digital: maximum data transfer rate - 640 kbit/s (0.64 Mbit/s)

Dolby TrueHD: maximum data transfer rate - 18 Mbit/s

 

[bandphan]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but what is the real world difference between the new codecs compared with DD and DTS? Are these only had with Bluray, or do PS3 games on BR also use these codecs?

It depends on the movie and for you to decide. Ive heard True HD that didnt sound as good as DD and vice versa. Here is one thread that has been discussing this issue.

 

[ahblaza]

Depending on your avr, as mentioned, bass management needs to be handled in the BD player. Some AVRs have a 10db bass boost feature for multi ch inputs. Remember the these inputs bypass room correction software, so manual setup for each channel level will be required. Again exactly how is dependent on the actual products you have and are purchasing. Another thing to consider is how much better are the lossless codecs compared to DD and dts? Is you room correction software more important than this difference?

Thanks Scott,
I'm not that concerned about room correction software at this time, I have manually set each channel level with meter and my personal taste. Thanks for the heads up with the 10dB bass boost. I will be purchasing the Panasonic DMP-BD85. I will be using it along side my PS3 Slim (with digital optical) for comparison using the the analog preouts of 85 to MCH of receiver and will see if there is a significant or any SQ difference to these old ears of mine. I can get the 85 for a decent price and have the analog cables so it will be a minimal investment to satisfy a curiosity. Thanks my friend.
Jeff

 

[bandphan]

Thanks Scott,
I'm not that concerned about room correction software at this time, I have manually set each channel level with meter and my personal taste. Thanks for the heads up with the 10dB bass boost. I will be purchasing the Panasonic DMP-BD85. I will be using it along side my PS3 Slim (with digital optical) for comparison using the the analog preouts of 85 to MCH of receiver and will see if there is a significant or any SQ difference to these old ears of mine. I can get the 85 for a decent price and have the analog cables so it will be a minimal investment to satisfy a curiosity. Thanks my friend.
Jeff

Your welcome. Different players have different needs. The older pioneer elite SACD players had some really piss poor bass management considering that the digital transport was very nice. There isn't a substitute for a RS meter, glad to hear your not just relying on auto setups solely. I played around with ARC correction software plug in for my computer setup (when I had all the gear) with analog outputs and multi channel live recordings and it sounded great compared to letting my AVR handle the processing. I think its a hit or miss thing with the where the decoding occurs and in which domain its output.
Good luck and enjoy the new gear
Scott

 

[markw]

Source managed bass management idiosyncrasies.

DEcoding in the source unit can have it can have it's drawbacks. I have a Denon DVD 1940-CI universal player that has SACD/DVD-A abilities. SACD, FWIW, needs to be decoded in the player and fed in 5.1 analog to the receivers "ext in" jacks since my receiver doesn't decode SACD.

In fact, I can't think of ANY receiver that does SACD internally.

Anyhow. it DOES play 5.1 MC SACD (good) but when setting up the speakers in the player, if ANY speaker is set to "large", the subwoofer doesn't play (bad). All speakers must be set to "small" to avail myself of the subwoofer.

Since I like to run my speakers full range AND use a sub, this is bad.

This follows through the DD/DTS as well. At least I can use a digital link to the receiver for that.

 

[TLS Guy]

DEcoding in the source unit can have it can have it's drawbacks. I have a Denon DVD 1940-CI universal player that has SACD/DVD-A abilities. SACD, FWIW, needs to be decoded in the player and fed in 5.1 analog to the receivers "ext in" jacks since my receiver doesn't decode SACD.

In fact, I can't think of ANY receiver that does SACD internally.

Anyhow. it DOES play 5.1 MC SACD (good) but when setting up the speakers in the player, if ANY speaker is set to "large", the subwoofer doesn't play (bad). All speakers must be set to "small" to avail myself of the subwoofer.

Since I like to run my speakers full range AND use a sub, this is bad.

This follows through the DD/DTS as well. At least I can use a digital link to the receiver for that.

Yes, you have to switch in an external electronic crossover to do what you want. That is what I do. I have a rotary switch that does that.

The sooner audio only BD replaces SACD the better.

 

[Seth=L]

In fact, I can't think of ANY receiver that does SACD internally.

Many modern receivers can handle DSD 5.1 over HDMI. Most receivers with HDMI 1.2 and up have this feature.

 

[ahblaza]

Your welcome. Different players have different needs. The older pioneer elite SACD players had some really piss poor bass management considering that the digital transport was very nice. There isn't a substitute for a RS meter, glad to hear your not just relying on auto setups solely. I played around with ARC correction software plug in for my computer setup (when I had all the gear) with analog outputs and multi channel live recordings and it sounded great compared to letting my AVR handle the processing. I think its a hit or miss thing with the where the decoding occurs and in which domain its output.
Good luck and enjoy the new gear
Scott

I'm from the camp of trying all possible options and using the devices on either side of my head to come to the best conclusion and implement the most feasible plan within my budjet. The RS meter really did prove to be an invaluable tool along with a lot of time playing around with speaker placement and room acoustics and as you say not relying on auto setups. Hey Scott I have an off subject question, can you really deep fry butter, seriously butter is one of my favorite indulgences. Take care.
Jeff

 

[bandphan]

Hey Scott I have an off subject question, can you really deep fry butter, seriously butter is one of my favorite indulgences. Take care.
Jeff

Its a southern thing. Deep fried pork fat is as old as it gets. People would take the skins with a generous amout of fat and fry it. (Ala pork rinds). We use to joke that it was "straight butter" hence the reference.