Mark Schifter was very good at lying. I can see why people like Danny and Mark Seaton worked for him. I'm embarrassed to tell this story, but WTF, who cares.
I retired from the Navy a little over two years ago. Way before MLS was exposed for the POS con-man he is. A couple of months before I retired MLS posted that business was growing so fast he couldn't keep up with it and was looking to hire a couple of people to help with the demand. I actually did a couple of searches on house prices near Longmont, and discussed the possibility of moving there with my wife. I ended up finding my current job before things progressed past a a few Internet home searches and some talk about about it with my wife.
Now, I wasn't your typical Kool-Aid drinking, "frothing at the mouth" MLS nut-hugger. With minor exceptions I posted on three sub-forums over there:
1. What are you listening to
2. The beer thread
3. Cigars/Pipes
I rarely posted elsewhere, and always avoided the "fanboy" threads. Never had any interest in it. I like music, beer and cigars, and that comprised 99% of my posts.
I did go to the N.C. GTG and met Quadman (and his wonderful family), Derek, and Bill. They seemed as normal as I'd like to think I am, and never once did I suspect anything was wrong with the company. Hell, Mark Seaton was there to demonstrate the BMF (unfortunately broke in transit). We had a nice chat about the sub, his ideas on the perfect subwoofer and some upcoming projects. He certainly didn't act like any of the forum "loonies". The X-Static Danny designed was there and sounded wonderful, and the Minis were sounding pretty good connected to an Onix tube amp. At the time I thought Mark Schifter had some kind of secret mojo and I wanted to be a part of that.
Looking back to that time, I never saw anything out of the ordinary. If I had I certainly wouldn't have entertained the idea of working for him. Danny had a killer product on display, and Mark Seaton was one of the coolest designers I ever talked to. MLS was a no-show even though he said he was coming.
In the end I'm glad things turned out as they did. I'd be deeply embarrassed to be somehow related to this, and it looks like Danny and Mark didn't get to F-d over too badly by him. Thank goodness.
I guess what I'm trying to say is nobody should EVER say anything negative about Danny or Mark for their involvement with AV123. They were victims of the lies just like I (very easily) could have been.
Slush
Thanks for sharing this. It’s interesting to see this retrospective. I wonder if there was ever an actual job out there anyway.
I Realize Mark was a competent liar, with a community of good and trusting people that took the bait. Upon reflection I think a lot of this retroactive finger pointing is unfair. There were 10,000 members (if you can believe that statistic) that were taken in, who believed the lie. It wasn’t that hard of a lie to believe.
I think most people have trusted someone who doesn’t deserve it, and have extended them the benefit of the doubt. While innocent until proven guilty isn’t the standard in public opinion, we often extend this to people we care about, or think we care about. A good friend will often stand up for a friend who they think is being treated unfairly. I can think of a thousand parents who will defend their children to the death for instance, evidence be damned. Loyalty is a virtue, and being a good friend is important. Blind loyalty can be dangerous, but I wouldn’t call it a sin.
One think that Mark Seaton said on another forum that resonated with me was his opinion of the other two av123ers.
“My impression was much more that Kyle was more of an eternal optimist who was continuously told things weren't as bad as it seemed and that things would be righted. MLS, even more so than other master manipulators I've encountered, was exceptionally skilled in knowing what people wanted/needed to hear. Unless someone has had significant experience with such personality types in the past, it is very easy to be misled or at least left with enough uncertainty to not take action. MLS had an amazing ability to tell a story to himself enough times that he whole-heartedly believed it, making it all the more convincing to anyone who wasn't hyper skeptical. In a similar vein I always found Suzanne to give me very straight answers, and if she didn't give an answer, it was because she didn't have one yet, rather than making things up. I can imagine some very uncomfortable positions these two and others were placed in with MLS, especially over the past 1-2 years. I'm not suggesting they be painted as saints, but the witch hunt found its target in MLS, don't let momentum spill elsewhere now that the primary focus (keeping others from getting Schiftered) is wrapping up.”
I’m not sure if this totally explains Kyles reasons for staying with av123, but I think loyalty was something that mark looked for when he hired. He could read people and knew who he was looking for. He wasn’t after someone who would rock the boat, he was after someone who he could use.
In general I think the thing that speaks volumes was the rapid collapse of the forum.. When the evidence became overwhelming and verifiable the forum died. The death of the forum was rapid. The majority of members voiced their disillusionment, their discontent and their shock. Most were banned or had their accounts deleted. Some members stayed around and advised people to stay away in not so many words. People voted with their feet. Betrayal is tough. It was a cheap life lesson for most. Had they to do it again would they rapidly throw someone like mark under the bus, I don’t know.
As far as the designers go, my interest is purely academic. I’m not trying to embarrass anyone. I don’t think there is anything to be embarrassed about. Both of these vendors have done everything in their power to provide a support mechanism for a company they probably never want to hear of again. That’s not a small thing to do. I don’t anyone is looking down on either of these two gentlemen.
I realize they don’t want to air dirty laundry. It’s just interesting to me. There has been a lot of speculation and opinions vary.
