B&W DM603 S3 vs. Polk Monitor 10

[ifsixwasnin9]

I thought I found the sound that I was looking for when I picked up these DM603 speakers last week. They are not perfect but they offer a lot. What caught my attention was the great detail. Downfalls were drums which were not exactly realistic (cymbals sound very weak and come from a tiny pointsource) and really disappointed me and the bass was deep and fairly loud but did not sound like an electric bass should (sound somewhat compressed). Today I decided to compare them to my Polk Monitor 10 and was shocked that the Polk stood up against the DM603 extremely well. Drums were 100% more realistic and footprint is much larger and realistic. The bass wasn't as defined or as punchy as DM603 but realistic and the biggest shortcoming of the Monitors are the vocals. I don't know how $1000 speakers can sound weak in certain areas. I'm really not sure what to do; there are so many directions you can head wrt speakers. But I'm going to stick with these B&W for a while. Using a new Yamaha 100wpc amp and tested speakers with some Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Judas Priest.

 

[TLS Guy]

I thought I found the sound that I was looking for when I picked up these DM603 speakers last week. They are not perfect but they offer a lot. What caught my attention was the great detail. Downfalls were drums which were not exactly realistic (cymbals sound very weak and come from a tiny pointsource) and really disappointed me and the bass was deep and fairly loud but did not sound like an electric bass should (sound somewhat compressed). Today I decided to compare them to my Polk Monitor 10 and was shocked that the Polk stood up against the DM603 extremely well. Drums were 100% more realistic and footprint is much larger and realistic. The bass wasn't as defined or as punchy as DM603 but realistic and the biggest shortcoming of the Monitors are the vocals. I don't know how $1000 speakers can sound weak in certain areas. I'm really not sure what to do; there are so many directions you can head wrt speakers. But I'm going to stick with these B&W for a while. Using a new Yamaha 100wpc amp and tested speakers with some Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Judas Priest.

Those speakers are not really Black Sabbath and Deep Purple speakers. I think the designer had something more refined in mind for source material.

A bigger issue is that like most B & W speakers they are a difficult load. Although B & W state the nominal impedance as 8 ohm, they are effectively three ohm speakers and require very robust external amplification to reproduce a bass drum properly. I know of no receiver appropriate for those speakers.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

I know these weren't made for rock n roll but no speakers out there are geared towards hard rock anymore. I'm not going to dabble in vintage speakers. I tried JBL L100 which had many problems, later to find out that the crossovers were designed incorrectly, the cabinets designed too small for the 123a woofer and should not be ported as it is. The DM603 are much easier to power than B&W P4 which created a lot of amp overheating on my Sansui 60wpc. I haven't had any heat problems with the DM603.
I know the bass driver is designed for small excursion for refined bass at higher volume but these speakers sound much better than PSBs I auditioned last week which were very neutral and flat speakers.
What speakers would you recommend?
You have an advantage because you're an expert, been around a while and have almost as much dough as Elin Nordegon is about to inherit. I'm disabled and have to save like mad for every audio component I have my eye on. I know I'm in the wrong hobby but what are you going to do.

 

[Seth=L]

First, you need to get a cold Dos Equis.

I recently had the DM603 S3. I was pretty impressed with it's low end capability. I didn't really feel that the drums weren't present correctly. That could have something to do with placement. How close are the speakers to back and side walls? How big is the room you are using these in?

For someone that listens to rock, you should consider floor standing speakers.

Where about do you live?

 

[TLS Guy]

I know these weren't made for rock n roll but no speakers out there are geared towards hard rock anymore. I'm not going to dabble in vintage speakers. I tried JBL L100 which had many problems, later to find out that the crossovers were designed incorrectly, the cabinets designed too small for the 123a woofer and should not be ported as it is. The DM603 are much easier to power than B&W P4 which created a lot of amp overheating on my Sansui 60wpc. I haven't had any heat problems with the DM603.
I know the bass driver is designed for small excursion for refined bass at higher volume but these speakers sound much better than PSBs I auditioned last week which were very neutral and flat speakers.
What speakers would you recommend?
You have an advantage because you're an expert, been around a while and have almost as much dough as Elin Nordegon is about to inherit. I'm disabled and have to save like mad for every audio component I have my eye on. I know I'm in the wrong hobby but what are you going to do.

Your last paragraph is offensive and beneath the standards of these forums.

Lets just say there are more means to and end than a big salary and bank balance. It includes am inherent moxie, resourcefulness, being prepared to develop and learn a multiplicity of skills. Lets just say if I paid the going rate for everything, I would have been in bankruptcy court a long time ago.

Fair warning, that anymore comments like that will get you negative rep, which I have never given before.

 

[Seth=L]

Fair warning, that anymore comments like that will get you negative rep, which I have never given before.

Take it easy! I'm sure he was no where near trying to be offensive. It's an honest mistake.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I appreciate all of the comments that people here offer. I like getting your opinion. You not only have a good ear but a very good scientific understanding to say the least. I just stated that you're an obvious expert and have a comprehensive knowledge of these things. You have a lot of money, too, so that gives you more freedom of choice with audio components. Something which I wish I (and all of us) had. I don't think I'd insult anyone here.
These DM603 S3 are floorstanding speakers, about 38" high. I was thinking of grabbing a subwoofer and adding it to round things out. But the drums/cymbals do sound weak and I bet classical percussion would sound similar. Other than that these speakers do grab me.

 

[Seth=L]

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I appreciate all of the comments that people here offer. I like getting your opinion. You not only have a good ear but a very good scientific understanding to say the least. I just stated that you're an obvious expert and have a comprehensive knowledge of these things. You have a lot of money, too, so that gives you more freedom of choice with audio components. Something which I wish I (and all of us) had. I don't think I'd insult anyone here.
These DM603 S3 are floorstanding speakers, about 38" high. I was thinking of grabbing a subwoofer and adding it to round things out. But the drums/cymbals do sound weak and I bet classical percussion would sound similar. Other than that these speakers do grab me.

Oh, I was thinking of the DM602 S3, sorry. Big difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not everyone loves B&W with a passion, not even the 800Ds.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0505/bowerswilkins800d.htm

"But there is still a hint of a quality that was also apparent with the Nautilus 800, namely a slight unevenness, a suggestion of coloration that changes as the pitch of the music changes. There is a hint of boxiness in the midband, and of a loss of image depth and differentiation, albeit very minor...Intentionally, the design behaves asymmetrically on different axis...But this process is probably not perfectly linear...This could be the source of some colorations, but they are mild...Compared to its predecessor it offers greater musical contrasts and transparency, a less intrusive treble and an overall balance that is finally very close to neutral."

For $23K, I expect a lot more than "close to neutral".

So some people like B&W, some people don't.

 

[TLS Guy]

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I appreciate all of the comments that people here offer. I like getting your opinion. You not only have a good ear but a very good scientific understanding to say the least. I just stated that you're an obvious expert and have a comprehensive knowledge of these things. You have a lot of money, too, so that gives you more freedom of choice with audio components. Something which I wish I (and all of us) had. I don't think I'd insult anyone here.
These DM603 S3 are floorstanding speakers, about 38" high. I was thinking of grabbing a subwoofer and adding it to round things out. But the drums/cymbals do sound weak and I bet classical percussion would sound similar. Other than that these speakers do grab me.

OK, you are forgiven. But I would caution you not to comment about perceived wealth or lack thereof. Someones financial situation is impossible to guess at, or the compromises they have made to pursue their life and goals. Any comments about that are irrelevant and gratuitous, and therefore best avoided.

You have a nice set of speakers, but the bass will not be what you want without significant improvement in amplification, if you want to play them above low or moderate volume.

 

[jackfish]

B&W DM603 S3 a 3 Ohm load? I don't think so.

I felt compelled to respond to this thread after seeing it quoted on another audio forum.

The B&W DM603 S3 is specified as a nominal 8 Ohm load, only dipping below 4 Ohms (3.1 Ohms) at very high frequencies (15 kHz) where little energy is exerted. In low frequencies where most of the power is demanded it remains above 4 Ohms. The B&W DM603 S3 also has a higher than average sensitivity, measured at 89dB/2.83V/1M. Any amplifier with moderate power and which is rated to handle a 4 Ohm load should work fine with this loudspeaker, including many receivers. Sure, a powerful amplifier with a large toroidal transformer and copious filter capacitance will control the bass section better. But, to say they are in effect a 3 Ohm load which affects its bass reproduction is inaccurate.

See the August 21, 2005 Stereophile review of the B&W DM603 S3 for measurements.

I thank the Audioholics forum for the opportunity to respond to what I feel should be considered dubious assertions.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I felt compelled to respond to this thread after seeing it quoted on another audio forum.

The B&W DM603 S3 is specified as a nominal 8 Ohm load, only dipping below 4 Ohms (3.1 Ohms) at very high frequencies (15 kHz) where little energy is exerted. In low frequencies where most of the power is demanded it remains above 4 Ohms. The B&W DM603 S3 also has a higher than average sensitivity, measured at 89dB/2.83V/1M. Any amplifier with moderate power and which is rated to handle a 4 Ohm load should work fine with this loudspeaker, including many receivers. Sure, a powerful amplifier with a large toroidal transformer and copious filter capacitance will control the bass section better. But, to say they are in effect a 3 Ohm load which affects its bass reproduction is inaccurate.

See the August 21, 2005 Stereophile review of the B&W DM603 S3 for measurements.

I thank the Audioholics forum for the opportunity to respond to what I feel should be considered dubious assertions.

What? You mean they don't sound better with 800wpc amps?

I used to own a DefTech CLR3000 that had a minimum impedance of 2.7ohm somewhere below 5kHz. I was using a 50wpc AVR. Sounded freaking great.

I think perhaps too many of us just overemphasizes, over exaggerate, over analyze, over prioritize, and over everything. I mean look at how many amps we have!

I definitely believe that even a 150wpc AVR can play the B&W 800D just fine. That is until someone says, "I'm not impressed with the sound". Then the problem must always be the amps.

R----------i------------g---------------h----------------t

 

[GranteedEV]

I know these weren't made for rock n roll but no speakers out there are geared towards hard rock anymore.

How do you gear a speaker towards hard rock?

You either gear it to accurately reproducing the source content, or not. If it can't keep up with the source content, then it can't. But that doesn't mean there's a specific speaker for a given genre. It just means you need better speakers.

That doesn't always mean you need to pay 10X more, but it does mean you need to buy speakers that at the very least are accurate within their limitations. Your problem is your speakers.