Let's Improve Walter's Sound

[walter duque]

BTW since we pulled the center forward it realy shines.

 

[jostenmeat]

BTW since we pulled the center forward it realy shines.

I believe it. While I enjoy what appears to be a much improved placement of your mains, just knowing me, I'd likely play with even further placement from front wall, and perhaps more toe in. I'm nearly positive I'd give them even more room from the front wall, but that's only because it's me with my own limited set of experiences.

 

[walter duque]

I believe it. While I enjoy what appears to be a much improved placement of your mains, just knowing me, I'd likely play with even further placement from front wall, and perhaps more toe in. I'm nearly positive I'd give them even more room from the front wall, but that's only because it's me with my own limited set of experiences.

Alex brought me some material for acoustic sound pannels, which should help the SQ even more.

 

[gmichael]

Wow! Alex really did it all..!!

 

[billy p]

Looks great Walter, sure sounds like you're much happier with things now? It takes a special kind of person to take the time and do all that and he'd be welcomed at my place anytime....

Regards, Bill...

 

[Alex2507]

The second sub for the TV does look right in there and it hides the power bar too ... and that little bit of red carpet nicely hides that last bit of wire. It looks great and I'm glad that wicker stand and decorative plant thing survived. It looks better out where you can see it instead of stuffed away into the corner. I'm also glad your wife likes it ... something Jostenmeat clearly has no understanding of. Meat, if they ain't happy ... nobody's happy.

You can't tell from the pictures how much the speakers are toed in but consider that the more you toe them in the more room they eat up. Between toeing them in and pulling them off the wall I imagine I used up 8 inches of space. Much more than that and I feared that they would end up back against the wall within a week. Those things are on spikes too so getting the angle I wanted was a bit of a challenge.

I just listened to that Blue Man track and me and my center are not on the best of terms at the moment. It knows that I listened to another center. I tried telling it that it didn't mean anything to me. I only did it for the sound. I don't love that other center ... but my center is pissed.

Honestly I felt better about my system before yours got tuned in. Funny how that works.

That speaker wire is stranded 12ga twisted pair shielded something or other that an electrician hooked me up with. He said they use it in security systems. There are not that many strands and it's kind of stiff. It didn't want to lay down so the masking tape helped that out. I'm sure there's a real installer looking at this laughing because he can spot an amateur a mile away.

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm also glad your wife likes it ... something Jostenmeat clearly has no understanding of. Meat, if they ain't happy ... nobody's happy.

I never said otherwise. In fact, I've used that exact same quote here before at AH. If the speakers are 1 ft from wall right now, a 3" increase is still a 25% increase in distance.

Sheesh.

A toe-in of even just a couple of arc inches will still represent a significant change in angle (likely double digit degrees).

Sheesh.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I never said otherwise. In fact, I've used that exact same quote here before at AH. If the speakers are 1 ft from wall right now, a 3" increase is still a 25% increase in distance.

Sheesh.

A toe-in of even just a couple of arc inches will still represent a significant change in angle (likely double digit degrees).

Sheesh.

It's OK Josten...Alex is just whipped!

 

[walter duque]

Wow! Alex really did it all..!!

He sure did. He can be proud of himself. When he was finished he did say that this was his first install job. Not bad. He basicly did start from sratch.

 

[just-some-guy]

looks good. you are lucky to have someone help like that.

no grill for the center ?

 

[walter duque]

looks good. you are lucky to have someone help like that.

no grill for the center ?

There is a magnetic grill for the center, but now and then I just like to see them drivers exposed.

 

[walter duque]

I'm not so sure that it would, Alex. The thing I was talking about is like a big, broad paintstroke of an EQ, and something that is named "Room Resonance" sounds more like a single band, or maybe a couple/few band type of cut EQ. Totally out of my butt on that, but that would be my guess.

Tell me the name of the processor, and I'll see what I can dig up.

It's an older B&K Ref 50 S2. I don't think I'd want to play with these settings. I might just get lost.

 

[Alex2507]

I suddenly got it. Between looking at that pic and having skimmed that review link that I PM'ed you it became clear(er). It appears that there are 3 filters there at 30, 60 and 90 Hertz. Take a look at the Rives Test Graph and see if there is a peak at any of those frequencies that you could cut by a certain number of decibels to produce a flatter response. Oh you are deep into the sh!t now. I hope your neighbors like the sounds of test tones. You simply have to read that manual and get your mind around what all that processor can do to further refine your speaker's ability to reproduce sound faithfully. All I'm ever concerned with is one listening position. It's always been all about me, me, me.

Jostenmeat is on vacation so it might be days or weeks before he get's back.
I don't know if they have the internet in New York or France.

Somebody started a thread about DIY Sound Panels so keep an eye on that.

EDIT: Recheck that thread. I kept editing and adding stuff.

 

[jostenmeat]

It's an older B&K Ref 50 S2. I don't think I'd want to play with these settings. I might just get lost.

For those who want to help Walter understand his machine, here is the manual:
http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/content_products/manuals/ht_manual/Reference 50_S2_UM_13790_1104.pdf

A few things that I noticed were that you can set memory for any setting (which could be nice to A/B compare if ever desired), and that while the xover settings aren't ultra advanced, it's still a lot better than what the great majority of us have with deciding xover slopes to the sub. You can have 6, 12, and 24 db/8ve slopes (AKA 1st, 2nd, and 4th order crossovers). I would imagine that I personally would use the steepest slope, due to my placements and equipment being used. The lower the number you choose, like 6db/octave, means the more you will hear the higher end of the sub for instance. With that chosen also for the high pass, you would hear more low end from the speakers. I have absolutely no idea what the implications are when different slopes are chosen at the same time between sub and speakers, and if you find out, I would love it if you told me here or by PM.

Finally, for the notch filters, if you don't want to tinker for now, just leave them be, until you one day figure out that you have modal/ringing issues at any of those very particular frequencies. OTOH, you can just tinker to taste. The main compromise that I find (and am still finding, and am forced to continually tinker with my own sub EQ), is that dialogue can be masked if the midbass is too powerful. I think anyways. I dunno, maybe not, but it doesn't sound quite right, although I'm sure subjectivity might play a large part.

Jostenmeat is on vacation so it might be days or weeks before he get's back.
I don't know if they have the internet in New York or France.

Thanks for letting him know. I didn't think I'd bring a computer (baggage limitations), but my dress suit/shirts/shoes fit along with everything else in my luggage bag, so now I may bring a laptop. I'm sure it's changed a lot since I've been there, but not everyone had internet in France back then (they are slower technologically, consumer wise, than here). And the fact that almost all of my friends in Europe are classical musicians, they don't make much money to afford computers to begin with. Heh. First musician I stay with has a computer that is near broke. And I'll be too busy being the General Manager pretty much for all of the family members arriving on 4 different days. Translator, guide, hotels, restaurants, van rental, driver, navigator, yada yada. I leave tomorrow. It's gonna be a trip for me, so many people I haven't seen in so long, including college friends that are now bald and have kids, haha. I think overwhelming, but I'm going to try to soak it all in, because man does time fly by. I leave tomorrow.

 

[jostenmeat]

Oh I forgot to address some things. The "width" on the screen is surely affecting the Q, or just how "wide" of a passband is being affected. Q does not affect the deepness of the cut, so to speak, only the width. Does that make sense? It's not entirely unrelated to the idea of the differing slopes with xovers, but ignore that because I'm sure that may greatly mislead you.

For subwoofer phase, I think the easiest way is to have two people. Actually, in your case, nevermind, just you is fine (I'm so used to phase adjustment only being on the sub itself).

Use bass heavy music. The better phase adjustment will have the bass sound more full at your LP, and the worst adjustment will have it sound anemic.

 

[Alex2507]

Note to self: Jostenmeat might be French. Hide the women.

Recently I got that THX Select rec'r and it's slopes match what Walter's are set at. 24 db/octave low pass and 12 db/octave high pass. My old (I assume inferior) H/K was 12 db/octave (I assume for high and low pass) according to an H/K rep. *shrug*

IIRC Walter had a bump from 125Hz-250Hz but I'm not sure that he can adjust where the notch filter is ... oh, but wait ... I think he can adjust which frequencies are affected by his tone (bass/treble) controls. Let the tweaking begin.

The on line manual should help Walter a lot because he's at work all the time during 'the season' but while he's there about half his time is spent surfing the net ... I am so jealous.

I just scored these end tables that I can use to put gear on and am tempted to hook up the Carver Model C-500 amp I got from Walter. I just don't want to spend the next some odd days messing with it. I should have put wheels on everything.

 

[walter duque]

Thanks for all yor input. This is what I am going to too bevore I start messing with the settings. I am gona take pictures of all the factory settings so I can reset them just in case I screw things up and no Heinekens tonight. I might have to skip tonight and enjoy the system instead of tweaking it since tomorrow is my birthday and I have to get an early start.

 

[Alex2507]

Thanks for all yor input. This is what I am going to too bevore I start messing with the settings. I am gona take pictures of all the factory settings so I can reset them just in case I screw things up and no Heinekens tonight. I might have to skip tonight and enjoy the system instead of tweaking it since tomorrow is my birthday and I have to get an early start.

If I were you I wouldn't tweak anything until fall when you have time away from work and you have had time to read and understand that processor. Right now the system is good to go and it's unlikely you will improve on it without a way to take even rudimentary measurements. There's no hurry here. Enjoy the system as is for a while and get to know what that sound really is like so that you have an established bass for future comparisons. Who knows? ... maybe by the time you have time to really do the deal and have your room treatments up, I will have REW figured out and we can take some really fancy measurements.

Happy Birthday! 49 ... right?

 

[walter duque]

Happy Birthday! 49 ... right? [/QUOTE]
Yeah right. I don't rember what I did 49, sometines I fell like my expiration date is coming up soon. Everybody want's me to hang around for a while, you know child support and alimony. I feel like a piece meal, everybody is getting a slice of me except me.

 

[walter duque]

For those who want to help Walter understand his machine, here is the manual:
http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/content_products/manuals/ht_manual/Reference 50_S2_UM_13790_1104.pdf

A few things that I noticed were that you can set memory for any setting (which could be nice to A/B compare if ever desired), and that while the xover settings aren't ultra advanced, it's still a lot better than what the great majority of us have with deciding xover slopes to the sub. You can have 6, 12, and 24 db/8ve slopes (AKA 1st, 2nd, and 4th order crossovers). I would imagine that I personally would use the steepest slope, due to my placements and equipment being used. The lower the number you choose, like 6db/octave, means the more you will hear the higher end of the sub for instance. With that chosen also for the high pass, you would hear more low end from the speakers. I have absolutely no idea what the implications are when different slopes are chosen at the same time between sub and speakers, and if you find out, I would love it if you told me here or by PM.

Finally, for the notch filters, if you don't want to tinker for now, just leave them be, until you one day figure out that you have modal/ringing issues at any of those very particular frequencies. OTOH, you can just tinker to taste. The main compromise that I find (and am still finding, and am forced to continually tinker with my own sub EQ), is that dialogue can be masked if the midbass is too powerful. I think anyways. I dunno, maybe not, but it doesn't sound quite right, although I'm sure subjectivity might play a large part.



Thanks for letting him know. I didn't think I'd bring a computer (baggage limitations), but my dress suit/shirts/shoes fit along with everything else in my luggage bag, so now I may bring a laptop. I'm sure it's changed a lot since I've been there, but not everyone had internet in France back then (they are slower technologically, consumer wise, than here). And the fact that almost all of my friends in Europe are classical musicians, they don't make much money to afford computers to begin with. Heh. First musician I stay with has a computer that is near broke. And I'll be too busy being the General Manager pretty much for all of the family members arriving on 4 different days. Translator, guide, hotels, restaurants, van rental, driver, navigator, yada yada. I leave tomorrow. It's gonna be a trip for me, so many people I haven't seen in so long, including college friends that are now bald and have kids, haha. I think overwhelming, but I'm going to try to soak it all in, because man does time fly by. I leave tomorrow.

I set it to 6 and it sounds very good, almost like a DBX dynamic range expander, kind of fills it in.