Site for sensible discussion of technical issues surrounding GOM oil leak.

[ArthurPE]

the ONLY thing to do is shut it down...

but the reason they won't is not technical, but financial, they need it to offset some damages...

again, you are making stuff up...

Yes, but they have leaned the plates in the casement in the sea bed are damaged. There is also damage to the pipe 600 feet below the sea bed, leaking oil around the pipes. At the moment this is contained by the tenuous thrust plates in the seabed casement.

The absolute last thing that should be done now, is to try and close off the pipe. It would spell disaster, so BP are correct to ignore you.

 

[ArthurPE]

rood? rude?

uncooth? uncouth?

you are racist, but you can change...but first you must see it...
so in 1 year you have judged the results of a 4 year term?
open minded much? doubt it

I voted for Obama, but never again. I painful lesson learned. I'm not racist but you are rood and uncooth.

 

[gmichael]

Yes, but they have leaned the plates in the casement in the sea bed are damaged. There is also damage to the pipe 600 feet below the sea bed, leaking oil around the pipes. At the moment this is contained by the tenuous thrust plates in the seabed casement.

The absolute last thing that should be done now, is to try and close off the pipe. It would spell disaster, so BP are correct to ignore you.

Me? What did I do?

 

[TLS Guy]

the ONLY thing to do is shut it down...

but the reason they won't is not technical, but financial, they need it to offset some damages...

again, you are making stuff up...

I'm not making this up!

This was all carefully explained by Admiral Allen in his press briefing of June 9 in answer to a question. He made it quite clear attempts to close the pipe are clearly off the table, other than closing it from below by the relief well.

The reasons for this were clearly posted by professional oil engineers, on Oil Drum after the failure of top kill and the information leaned.

When specialized ships arrive from the North Sea, the pipes in the BOP will be reconnected but the flow reversed to capture more oil.

Anchors will be placed in the sea bed. A new riser cap will be placed which will be attached to those anchors, and this will prevent cap judder which is impeding efforts to increase flow currently.

A flexible riser will be placed on the new cap.

This plan should be able to capture most of the flow if all goes according to plan. This can be done without the risk of making things a lot worse.

Obviously you believe in conspiracy theories. The sale of the oil is insignificant to the cost to BP of the continuing leak. If they could stop it safely they would.

 

[TLS Guy]

Me? What did I do?

Nothing, but you said associates of yours were not getting any positive response out of BP and that's why.

 

[gmichael]

Nothing, but you said associates of yours were not getting any positive response out of BP and that's why.

You may have me mixed up with another poster.

 

[TLS Guy]

You may have me mixed up with another poster.

Sorry about that!

 

[James NM]

I'm not making this up!

This was all carefully explained by Admiral Allen in his press briefing of June 9 in answer to a question. He made it quite clear attempts to close the pipe are clearly off the table, other than closing it from below by the relief well.

The reasons for this were clearly posted by professional oil engineers, on Oil Drum after the failure of top kill and the information leaned.

When specialized ships arrive from the North Sea, the pipes in the BOP will be reconnected but the flow reversed to capture more oil.

Anchors will be placed in the sea bed. A new riser cap will be placed which will be attached to those anchors, and this will prevent cap judder which is impeding efforts to increase flow currently.

A flexible riser will be placed on the new cap.

This plan should be able to capture most of the flow if all goes according to plan. This can be done without the risk of making things a lot worse.

Obviously you believe in conspiracy theories. The sale of the oil is insignificant to the cost to BP of the continuing leak. If they could stop it safely they would.

Dr. Mark, it appears that facts and logic have no merit or meaning with some people. Some have already settled on their version of reality, and confronting them with facts is an exercise in futility - much like the efforts to cap the well have been thus far.

 

[ArthurPE]

I am the president of a 100+ year old engineering firm, who has contracts with the 2 largest gas exploration/production companies in the world...I am a PE in mechanical & electrical engineering with 20+ years experience

my partner in a company we started to treat frac waste water is considered a legend in the drilling business, he drilled the shaft to get the que creek miners out...he said the only reason the well is not plugged is financial...
it would 'scrap' the well and the associated investment...
the casing could take the pressure...easily...the thrust plates/blocking are moot, if the flow is restrained by the pipe/lugs...
they are hoping to salvage it
the $$$ is NOT inconsequential (15k bbls/day) at $75/bbl >1 mil$/day...
btw, $$$ is the whole reason they drill, and cutting corners to save money is the whole reason this happened...Obama had nothing to do with it...
it was pure unadulterated greed, and BP will pay...

they can stop it, they choose not to...
it took 50 days to capture it? why so long?
why did they say it was leaking 1k/day when it is closer to 30k? some say as hih as 100k/day...
becasue they are fined on a bbl basis...
if you mean 'conspiracy' as in a corporation will lie, cheat and steal to profit, even if at the expense of 1000's of Gulf coast residents and the enviornment, yes, I believe it is a 'conspiracy' in the criminal sense of the word...
perhaps that is why the Justice Dept. is involved...
it is a crime, as defined by law, and as by humanity...

I'm not making this up!

This was all carefully explained by Admiral Allen in his press briefing of June 9 in answer to a question. He made it quite clear attempts to close the pipe are clearly off the table, other than closing it from below by the relief well.

The reasons for this were clearly posted by professional oil engineers, on Oil Drum after the failure of top kill and the information leaned.

When specialized ships arrive from the North Sea, the pipes in the BOP will be reconnected but the flow reversed to capture more oil.

Anchors will be placed in the sea bed. A new riser cap will be placed which will be attached to those anchors, and this will prevent cap judder which is impeding efforts to increase flow currently.

A flexible riser will be placed on the new cap.

This plan should be able to capture most of the flow if all goes according to plan. This can be done without the risk of making things a lot worse.

Obviously you believe in conspiracy theories. The sale of the oil is insignificant to the cost to BP of the continuing leak. If they could stop it safely they would.

 

[Gizmologist]

Question:

How do they expect to maintain collection/pump ships on station during the upcoming hurricane season?

Arthur did you read my plug concept?

 

[James NM]

and now we come to the root of the issue...racism
surprised it took so long

You know Arthur, I purposely didn't respond quickly to this post of yours. I wanted to wait a while and not respond too harshly. Here is the entirety of my post where you were able to determine that I was a racist. My post was in response to a post by TLS Guy about capping and cleaning the spill, and Obama's rush to judgement without knowing all the facts (post #86 in this thread).

Originally Posted by James NM
Personally, I don't have the answers.

How to fix it? How to clean it? My answer would be to quote Obama from the Pres. campaign (about abortion) "That's above my pay grade".

But I do know two things with certainty:

1). This has been a cluster fu*k, and
2). Obama has shown a historic and tragic lack of leadership




Yes. Kind of reminds one of the rush to judgement concerning a certain black Harvard college professor and a white cop who acted "stupidly", doesn't it?

And apparently drawing from his vast executive experience (or at least copying the "success" of his now famous beer summit with the two previously mentioned characters), it looks like a solution to the problem is only a beer sip away. Obama, who has had ZERO contact with any BP official in the 7 weeks since the disaster, will apparently have some contact with a BP official sometime next week. Hooray! We're saved!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100611/...oil_spill_1207

Arthur, you know nothing about me. You calling me a racist only accomplishes one thing: It makes you look stupid. I am sincerely grateful we do not agree on this issue (or probably any issue). But if and when I discover that we agree on something, I will immediately recant my previous position and determine where my conclusion went astray.

Calling someone a racist because they disagree with or criticise Obama's policies if foolish. It also diminishes real racism.

Arthur, you are entitled to your own opinion.
You, however, are not entitled to your own facts.

PS: your attempt to give me a red chick-let for racism was also pathetic

 

[s162216]

BP is not the British government...it knows no loyalty other than the $$$ and its shareholders...screw them, drive them into insolvency...
let US companies pick up the pieces...

what's dangerous about holding BP accountable fir thei epic failure?
impacting US soil?
I wouldn't count the UK as a great allie, look at their number of troops in Iraq vs population...token at best...US 90%, UK 5%, 16:1, population 5:1

if there is a country with bigger issues than us it's socialist UK

To be honest with me being British, I feel that you are just being disrespectful and downright rude towards Britian. Since when are we socialist? Just because we have free healthcare on the NHS?
And how is this our fault?

Your figures in Iraq are also vastly lower than they actually were, the UK army alone provided about 45,000 troops which is about half our total Army minus reserves compared to 248,000 US troops which is approx half of your Army. Plus we were/are involved in the war in Afghanistan. We actually contribute/d the second most in both of these wars. We are a much much smaller country than the USA.

Plus we provide territory for US forces in the UK and several other places such as Deigo Garcia which is one of the most important bases for the US in the middle east.

BP is actually a multi-national company and despite Obama repeatedly calling it 'British Petroleum' its been called 'BP' for years.

Looking at past incidents involving USA companies such as the Bhopal chemical disaster and Torrey Canyon oil spill, it seems difficult to gain compensation or use legal means as the company ignores the issue yet when a similar incident happens on the USA's shores they go all out to blame everyone else when they authorised BP to drill in that area firstly.

 

[JerryLove]

I believe that a great number of actors have failed to respond properly here.

I don't know, with any *real* knowledge, about what can and cannot work in terms of stopping the flow of oil.

But it does seem to me that a great number of agencies, governmental and educational, are waiting on BP to give them money before doing anything (USF wants $100m to do an envyronmental impact and are surprised when BP does rush to cut a check).

On the other hand, from where I sit, it seems that BP has repeatedly lied about the extent of the leak, and has acted to prevent testing and truthful coverage.

The Obama administration for its part has failed to stop BP from doing that, and failed to step in to fund (and force allow) things like studies on what is going on and what will happen.

It also seems everyone (and the administration has failed to stop this) is so busy trying to look like they are acting, that their actions are likely wrong. Why are we trying to save injured animals rather than using that effort to move healthy ones out of the path before they become injured? Why are we performing (damaging) cleaning while the tarballs are still rolling in.

We can't dike the whole coast, and some areas (the LA marsh's perhaps) might not be protectable that way; but there are a large number of inlets and bays that could have been. No one seems to know what has and has not been done, and actual work to mitigate damage doesn't seem to start until the oil is rolling on the shore.

I hate to say it, but this does remind me of Katrina... though Obama has less put his foot in his mouth than "no one thought the leavies would burst" Bush.

But hey: congress has had like twelve committie meetings so it will be OK now right?

 

[TLS Guy]

To be honest with me being British, I feel that you are just being disrespectful and downright rude towards Britian. Since when are we socialist? Just because we have free healthcare on the NHS?
And how is this our fault?

Your figures in Iraq are also vastly lower than they actually were, the UK army alone provided about 45,000 troops which is about half our total Army minus reserves compared to 248,000 US troops which is approx half of your Army. Plus we were/are involved in the war in Afghanistan. We actually contribute/d the second most in both of these wars. We are a much much smaller country than the USA.

Plus we provide territory for US forces in the UK and several other places such as Deigo Garcia which is one of the most important bases for the US in the middle east.

BP is actually a multi-national company and despite Obama repeatedly calling it 'British Petroleum' its been called 'BP' for years.

Looking at past incidents involving USA companies such as the Bhopal chemical disaster and Torrey Canyon oil spill, it seems difficult to gain compensation or use legal means as the company ignores the issue yet when a similar incident happens on the USA's shores they go all out to blame everyone else when they authorised BP to drill in that area firstly.

Exactly! This president is doing real harm to UK/US relations.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am the president of a 100+ year old engineering firm, who has contracts with the 2 largest gas exploration/production companies in the world...I am a PE in mechanical & electrical engineering with 20+ years experience

my partner in a company we started to treat frac waste water is considered a legend in the drilling business, he drilled the shaft to get the que creek miners out...he said the only reason the well is not plugged is financial...
it would 'scrap' the well and the associated investment...
the casing could take the pressure...easily...the thrust plates/blocking are moot, if the flow is restrained by the pipe/lugs...
they are hoping to salvage it
the $$$ is NOT inconsequential (15k bbls/day) at $75/bbl >1 mil$/day...
btw, $$$ is the whole reason they drill, and cutting corners to save money is the whole reason this happened...Obama had nothing to do with it...
it was pure unadulterated greed, and BP will pay...

they can stop it, they choose not to...
it took 50 days to capture it? why so long?
why did they say it was leaking 1k/day when it is closer to 30k? some say as hih as 100k/day...
becasue they are fined on a bbl basis...
if you mean 'conspiracy' as in a corporation will lie, cheat and steal to profit, even if at the expense of 1000's of Gulf coast residents and the enviornment, yes, I believe it is a 'conspiracy' in the criminal sense of the word...
perhaps that is why the Justice Dept. is involved...
it is a crime, as defined by law, and as by humanity...

If you can't see that closing the well, now pretty much free flowing, will greatly increase pressure in the pipe and well head then you are a very poor engineer.

You are a just way out in left field and highly disrespectful. Quite honestly we don't like your type of chap on these forums. As Gladstone said of the Turks after a particularly vile atrocity in the Balkans: - "All that remains is for you to cart yourself off bag and baggage all."

 

[ArthurPE]

what I can't get my head around is the fact that so many purported 'americans' betray their Country to defend a foreign corporation
the only conclusion, their racism and hatred for the duly elected President has clouded thier perception, and in fact, causing borderline treasonous position, ie, BP > US citizens...

one that has show total disregard for our safety laws (>600 eregious, willful, violations...only 1 WASN'T BP!)

trust me, BP will look out for theirselves (and only theirselves) they have more lawyers and PR working the 'problem' than engineers...

did we learn nothing from the valdez? exxon said they will pay all claims, will not dispute them in court...lies, it took 20 years to settle, for a dime on the dollar...my guess they invested the insurance money and when it exceeded settlement, they paid...all the way to the SC, I bet they MADE money on it...
20 years....

BP is posturing for the same...that is why they lied about the quantities and refused us access to the data...

and the same people that think BP should do what they want, without regard to law or safety, criticize the President for looking out for Americans first...
when a crime is committed, time is of the essence, hence the criminal probe NOW, while the evidence is fresh...it's not like it's distracting from the effort to minimize damage...lawyers aren't engineers and have nothing to do with that process, it's no diversion of resources...it's SMART and good for the US, who cares about BP...

and the gall of the head dunce from BP, 'I want my life back', I guess it's taking time from his golf game and yachting...
I can say with a high degree of certainty the families of the 11 dead would like to have their 'lifes back'...

you guys are are postulating one world government with corporations calling the shots, and nations becoming tokens or pawns subserviant to them...
that is anti-american and far more extreme than anything Obama, Pelosi, et al, have ever advocated...it's down right scary

 

[ArthurPE]

How do they expect to maintain collection/pump ships on station during the upcoming hurricane season?

Arthur did you read my plug concept?

yep, read it and responded...it would most likely work...
that's why they won't do it...
they want the oil, they don't want to STOP the oil...

 

[ArthurPE]

better stupid than racist, ignorance is bliss, racism is hateful...

YOU said 'black' and 'white', not I...

a racist is the last to see it...NO ONE ever admits to their own faults...I have many, but being a racist isn't one of them...don't you wish you could say the same?

You know Arthur, I purposely didn't respond quickly to this post of yours. I wanted to wait a while and not respond too harshly. Here is the entirety of my post where you were able to determine that I was a racist. My post was in response to a post by TLS Guy about capping and cleaning the spill, and Obama's rush to judgement without knowing all the facts (post #86 in this thread).

Arthur, you know nothing about me. You calling me a racist only accomplishes one thing: It makes you look stupid. I am sincerely grateful we do not agree on this issue (or probably any issue). But if and when I discover that we agree on something, I will immediately recant my previous position and determine where my conclusion went astray.

Calling someone a racist because they disagree with or criticise Obama's policies if foolish. It also diminishes real racism.

Arthur, you are entitled to your own opinion.
You, however, are not entitled to your own facts.

PS: your attempt to give me a red chick-let for racism was also pathetic

 

[TLS Guy]

what I can't get my head around is the fact that so many purported 'americans' betray their Country to defend a foreign corporation
the only conclusion, their racism and hatred for the duly elected President has clouded thier perception, and in fact, causing borderline treasonous position, ie, BP > US citizens...

one that has show total disregard for our safety laws (>600 eregious, willful, violations...only 1 WASN'T BP!)

trust me, BP will look out for theirselves (and only theirselves) they have more lawyers and PR working the 'problem' than engineers...

did we learn nothing from the valdez? exxon said they will pay all claims, will not dispute them in court...lies, it took 20 years to settle, for a dime on the dollar...my guess they invested the insurance money and when it exceeded settlement, they paid...all the way to the SC, I bet they MADE money on it...
20 years....

BP is posturing for the same...that is why they lied about the quantities and refused us access to the data...

and the same people that think BP should do what they want, without regard to law or safety, criticize the President for looking out for Americans first...
when a crime is committed, time is of the essence, hence the criminal probe NOW, while the evidence is fresh...it's not like it's distracting from the effort to minimize damage...lawyers aren't engineers and have nothing to do with that process, it's no diversion of resources...it's SMART and good for the US, who cares about BP...

and the gall of the head dunce from BP, 'I want my life back', I guess it's taking time from his golf game and yachting...
I can say with a high degree of certainty the families of the 11 dead would like to have their 'lifes back'...

you guys are are postulating one world government with corporations calling the shots, and nations becoming tokens or pawns subserviant to them...
that is anti-american and far more extreme than anything Obama, Pelosi, et al, have ever advocated...it's down right scary

Now I know you have fulfilled the DSM criteria for paranoid schizophrenia!

 

[ArthurPE]

you ever here of Bernoulli or Archimedes?
what motive force would increase the pressure?
how would the static increase in relation to the velocity pressure or the head loss?
you know not of what you speak...

go open a fire hydrant on a water system with 100 lbs pressure, low pressure drop, and a 30 year capacity reserve...tell me what the line pressure is 100' feet down stream before and after...if it's >5% difference I'd be very surprised...

and as I say...you would have better off keeping your trap shut, until you opened it we didn't know the depth of your ignorance...chap, cip, chip, cheerio...apropos for BP

uncooth and rood?
disrespectful? you have essentially called the POtUS a %$#$^&

If you can't see that closing the well, now pretty much free flowing, will greatly increase pressure in the pipe and well head then you are a very poor engineer.

You are a just way out in left field and highly disrespectful. Quite honestly we don't like your type of chap on these forums. As Gladstone said of the Turks after a particularly vile atrocity in the Balkans: - "All that remains is for you to cart yourself off bag and baggage all."