PB12-NSD vs PB12-plus vs PB13-ultra

[smihalik]

Hi Guys

A quick rundown of the room before we go into it. Its about 2500cu ft, HOWEVER there is an 8ft floor to ceiling opening which opens to both the upstair and to my 6000+cu ft open concept main floor. The room is above the garage. NOT the ideal setting I know.

Some History on my purchase:

I was ready to pull the trigger on a PB12-NSD about 9 months ago. A lot of unexpected cost's came up (10K for my driveway among them), so I put that purchase on hold. My system desperately needs a sub. Check my signature.

About 4-5 months ago I was in a a local AV store (Dumoulin for anyone in Quebec). They had a Klipsch RW12-d floormodel for sale. retail on the sub was $999 (don't forget I'm in Canada) I got it down to $650 and decided to take a chance on it since I still had 30 days for a refund. Long story short, the sub was terrible. Very boomy, no real SPL that I could feel. Extremely disappointed. Brought it back for a refund. The salesperson couldn't believe it because "That sub rocks". Whatever. I'm wondering if it has to do with poor calibration. I experimented with different placement. The sub was even localiseable, maybe the crossover was not set properly? I thought I had it tuned to 80Hz?

Now my question is, after having had this awful experience with the RW12-d, will the PB12-NSD be enough of an upgrade to satisfy me? I thought it would, but seeing I can't take it home and try I am a bit nervous.

How much of a difference will I see going up the 12-plus? The NSD will cost me $729, the 12-plus is double that at $1399. The NSD fits my budget, but I don't want to regret, not do I want to spend more than I need to. $1399 is a but steep right now.

Lastly, I would be interested to know how many of you would be of the opinion that NEITHER of these are sufficient for my bass suck-out happy room, and that I should save my pennies for a 13-Ultra? I really don't want to drop 2K on a sub, but I also want to be happy with my purchase.

Oh, and I am looking at SVS because they have a Canadian distributor, all other companies are extremely expensive to ship and it is no longer really worth it to go ID.

Sorry for the long post. I appreciate all the help.

 

[j_garcia]

I had a PB-10 in a ~5000cf room and it held its own, but SVSs recommendation was two of them or a Plus. I don't think a single NSD will be sufficient, but a Plus would probably be OK. What you could consider though is getting one and adding a second later, either dual NSDs or dual Pluses. Any chance of being able to close the room off from the upstairs? That would make a big difference.

HSU Research also has Canadian distributors.

 

[smihalik]

I had a PB-10 in a ~5000cf room and it held its own, but SVSs recommendation was two of them or a Plus. I don't think a single NSD will be sufficient, but a Plus would probably be OK. What you could consider though is getting one and adding a second later, either dual NSDs or dual Pluses. Any chance of being able to close the room off from the upstairs? That would make a big difference.

HSU Research also has Canadian distributors.

Duals is something I am considering. For the price of one Plus I could get two 12-NSD's. What are your thoughts on that? Two pluses is out of the question budget wise.

Unfortunately I cannot close off the room. Eventually I am going to build a dedicated theatre in my basement. But that is years away.

 

[jostenmeat]

Duals is something I am considering. For the price of one Plus I could get two 12-NSD's. What are your thoughts on that? Two pluses is out of the question budget wise.

Unfortunately I cannot close off the room. Eventually I am going to build a dedicated theatre in my basement. But that is years away.

Just an idea, but you could make a couple of subs. If you dislike the idea of DIY, pay someone for a day's work. For example, if you're ok with the extremely large size, for say the price of an Ultra, you could pay for the plans, wood, drivers, amps, and hundreds of dollars to someone you hire for 2x Tuba HTs, which would probably bring your house down. Since they are so efficient, getting very modest amps would likely still be more than adequate.

I don't always recommend DIY, but I do admit that I do so more consistently for those who live in other countries.

One of those Tuba HTs + amp would come out to about the price of an NSD, and that includes some (though perhaps not all) budget towards hiring someone. I think. Well, it's an idea. There are other designs of course.

 

[smihalik]

Just an idea, but you could make a couple of subs. If you dislike the idea of DIY, pay someone for a day's work. For example, if you're ok with the extremely large size, for say the price of an Ultra, you could pay for the plans, wood, drivers, amps, and hundreds of dollars to someone you hire for 2x Tuba HTs, which would probably bring your house down. Since they are so efficient, getting very modest amps would likely still be more than adequate.

I don't always recommend DIY, but I do admit that I do so more consistently for those who live in other countries.

One of those Tuba HTs + amp would come out to about the price of an NSD, and that includes some (though perhaps not all) budget towards hiring someone. I think. Well, it's an idea. There are other designs of course.

I contemplated going the DIY route a while back, but decided its more of a hassle than I'm willing to go through. Even to pay someone. I want to open a box, plug it in and go.

 

[j_garcia]

Dual NSDs would be a good plan then. I say: get one and see how it does for a few weeks and then decide if you need the second one. It may very well be that one is enough and when the upgrade bug bites, rather than going bigger, you simply add the second.

Is this through Sonic Boom?

 

[smihalik]

Dual NSDs would be a good plan then. I say: get one and see how it does for a few weeks and then decide if you need the second one. It may very well be that one is enough and when the upgrade bug bites, rather than going bigger, you simply add the second.

Is this through Sonic Boom?

This is how I am leaning. Seems to be the best bang for buck.

Yes, this is through sonic boom. I have been talking to Mason from sonic boom via email. Very helpful. From what he is telling me I will get more output from dual NSD's vs a single 12-plus. It will actual cost less. Only downside is WAF (not a huge deal my GF is pretty cool), and floor space. Again not a huge deal, the space is pretty big.

But now he's offering me a discount if I take two! Damn, might need to just bite the bullet and grab 'em both. It'l save me money in the long run, right?...RIGHT?

 

[j_garcia]

Gotta spend money to save money LOL

The sound quality is a bit better on the Plus due to the better driver and amp as well as the abitlity to variable tune, but dual NSDs should give you more output than a Plus AFAIK. The first generations that wasn't true, a single plus had the output of dual ISDs, but the new NSDs are closer to a Plus than the ISDs were. If he's giving you a really good deal...

 

[billy p]

I upgraded my pb10 to a custom sub built by funkywaves. The sum of all the parts and the labor worked out to <$1000.00 cdn and would easily surpass the pb10 or 12nsd and on par with the pb12 plus. Just something to think about? Tell him your budget and he'll make it work for you!

As for svs subs sold in Canada...we never have to chance to buy b stock and even when our dollar is on par the prices remain the same and never come down....I'd not buy another svs sold here....EVER....jmo!

 

[smihalik]

I upgraded my pb10 to a custom sub built by funkywaves. The sum of all the parts and the labor worked out to <$1000.00 cdn and would easily surpass the pb10 or 12nsd and on par with the pb12 plus. Just something to think about? Tell him your budget and he'll make it work for you!

As for svs subs sold in Canada...we never have to chance to buy b stock and even when our dollar is on par the prices remain the same and never come down....I'd not buy another svs sold here....EVER....jmo!

Any threads linking to your sub? I would consider this route. I'd love to see some pics.

Does he do everything from A-Z? Do I need a separate amp or will he build in a plate amp?

 

[billy p]

Any threads linking to your sub? I would consider this route. I'd love to see some pics.

Does he do everything from A-Z? Do I need a separate amp or will he build in a plate amp?

http://pbckt.com/sC.WzG

He'll built it from a-z. That price also included shipping from Vancouver to Markham and that sub weights about 90lbs. It would've weighted much more but Nathan only uses 3/4" Birch ply which is lighter but stronger than MDF and help reduce shipping costs. The route I took was ported because I wanted max. ext and the amp had to be built in, but its orignal design was made for a slot port using and exteranl amp which would easily increase your output...or even using PR's. Drop him a line and see what he can do for you....hay you've nothing to lose.

 

[j_garcia]

My last company had an office in Markham but we closed it.

My Tempest was my upgrade from the PB-10 and it cost less than a PB-12 even in the US, including the plate amp which I have setup as an external. A friend built it

 

[billy p]

My last company had an office in Markham but we closed it.

My Tempest was my upgrade from the PB-10 and it cost less than a PB-12 even in the US, including the plate amp which I have setup as an external. A friend built it

Most of tech sector and manufacture's head offices are here in Markham. AAMOF I use to live around the corner from D&M holdings. I'd venture there from t-t when they had their annual spring cleaning...some great deals could be had.