Is surround better in 5ch than 7?

[Moonlight]

Hi
I read recently on a Denon review from a guy whom seemed to know what he was talking about, that his Denon receiver sounded better using 5 ch than in 7 for movies.
Is this actually true across the board, Denons or not?
I have a Denon AVR 2105 90w x 7ch.
Haven't compared yet but wondering about the technical aspect?

Cheers

 

[just-some-guy]

depends on the room, gear and setup.

 

[supervij]

I've never had a 5.1 setup, just a 6.1 (with Dolby.com's recommendation for speaker setup for 7.1, there just isn't room for it in my living room).

But I would imagine that a well-set up 5.1 will kick the *** of a 7.1 that isn't set up properly. But a 7.1 that is properly set up will probably sound better to those listeners who are not in the sweet spot.

cheers,
supervij

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If the 7Ch is pure discrete (7.1 Dolby TrueHD, 7.1 DTS-HD MA, 7.1 PCM), then 7Ch will sound at least as good as 5.1 - unless the other 2 speakers just suck (distorted).

If the original soundtrack is 5.1 and you Matrix into 7.1, it may or may not sound bad depending on the processor, speakers, & room acoustics.

I use only 5.1 because I personally don't feel the need for 7.1 at this time (room size, etc.).

If you have the room size, speakers, budget, and original sources for 7.1, then 7Ch should be good to go.

 

[cjsiv]

I just recently upgraded from 6.1 to 7.1. I have a Denon 1910 with Jamo speakers ( still made in Denmark). I have my E-center, A330 for R/L fronts, Jamo dipoles for the surround R/L, and my 2nd set of A330's for the surround backs. I have it set to matrix all signals. I ran Audyssey after switching my setup to recalibrate. I am very happy with the 7.1 matrixed setup. I think alot of it depends on the receiver and how well it will matrix. All sources I have listened to over the past few months have a "fullness" that was not there before. Atmospheric effects cannot be localized, yet directional ones (i.e. gunfire, etc.) can be. It seems to do everything well. I am pretty pleased with the 7.1. I do think the audyssey had a lot to do with the proper setup, though. Not sure how it would sound without it.

 

[sawzalot]

What is the proper 6.1 set up front left , center , right and then rear left , center , right ? and of course a sub or two which would then be 6.2 surround, is this correct ?

 

[JerryLove]

All else being equal: more speaker positions means more enveloping sound.

Of course, all things are not equal and so there is no universally "better".

Heck, in my bedroom I run 4.1 rather than 5.1 because it sounds better in that location.

And don't forget 9.2

 

[Moonlight]

Thanks for your replies.

---------wall--------s----> 6m
sub/fr
sb
TV/c<---3m--->X<-2m->
sb
sub/fr
--2m wall] open s open

Width of room = 4m

TV Panasonic 34'' SD w/s 100Hz Crt (2003) a) can't afford Plasma/Lcd b) Better picture
Receiver: Denon AVR 2105
Fronts: Wharfedale
Centre: B&W CC-3
Surrounds: Jensen
Rear surr: Energy
Subs: 2 x Jensen twin 8''

Mixed bag huh? - eBay - not what Audiophiles would recommend
but sounds pretty good to me on a budget Cheers

 

[supervij]

What is the proper 6.1 set up front left , center , right and then rear left , center , right ? and of course a sub or two which would then be 6.2 surround, is this correct ?

That's correct. Going around, it'd be front left, front centre, front right, surround right, rear centre, surround left. Plus sub or subs.

cheers,
supervij

 

[jostenmeat]

That's correct. Going around, it'd be front left, front centre, front right, surround right, rear centre, surround left. Plus sub or subs.

cheers,
supervij

Not really. I think it's front left, center, front right, side surround right, rear, side surround left.

Before you say whatever, I can tell you that I've across a hundred noobies who complain they don't have surround sound, because well they plugged in their side surround speakers into the rear surround jacks.

But, 6.1 is starting to seem a bit old skool already.

With the new stuff today, 7.1 can mean different things now. Like with DSX.

And finally, just to picks nits with technicalities, it's never really 6.2, because the LFE channel is always one, single channel on the source. Yes, it is easier to describe our setups by saying something like 11.8, or whatever it might be.

 

[gmichael]

If the original master was recorded in 7.1 then that’s the way to go. Too bad you don’t see that much yet. Till that time, the extra two channels are created by your receiver. I prefer to play back everything in the form it was recorded in so I leave my receiver in straight mode.
If you have a huge room, then the extra 2 channels may be helpful to fill a void in the room though.

 

[supervij]

Not really. I think it's front left, center, front right, side surround right, rear, side surround left.

Before you say whatever, I can tell you that I've across a hundred noobies who complain they don't have surround sound, because well they plugged in their side surround speakers into the rear surround jacks.

With all respect I think you're splitting hairs with the difference between my description and yours.

You call it "side surrounds" and "rear", I call it "surrounds" and "rear centre", respectively. Tomato, tomahto. They're the same thing.

"Surround" and "rear" seem like they should be different things, especially when the back of a receiver has one set labeled "surrounds" and another set labeled "surround rear" (or "surround back" as mine does).

I don't doubt that some newbies make the aforementioned mistake, and though yours is a better description for newbies, this isn't the Beginners and Audiophytes section.

Anyway, semantics, dude. It's all good.

cheers,
supervij

 

[lsiberian]

If you set it up right 7 ch is better. Of course you should always start with 5 because you want to put the most cash in your fronts and sub.

 

[jostenmeat]

With all respect I think you're splitting hairs with the difference between my description and yours. . .

Anyway, semantics, dude. It's all good.

cheers,
supervij

You're right, my bad. I thought you described the surrounds as differently, but I was obviously imagining things. My apologies.

If the original master was recorded in 7.1 then that’s the way to go. Too bad you don’t see that much yet.

There are at least 164 bluray titles out there with 7.1. Interestingly, a large proportion of those are concert titles.

I've never had SACD capability, but I find TLS Guy's thoughts on the matter to be particularly interesting with a 7.1 system. If I understood correctly, the surround channels from a 5.1 SACD should often be going to the REAR surrounds, for the placing and angle, and the side surrounds should be silent. Again, if I understood correctly, and I don't know how you get a processor to do that. Oh, maybe it must simply be analogs I suppose, to the correct inputs . . .

 

[Buckster]

I wanted to try rear surrounds as my "rears" are in line with our sofa, but my rear surrounds/centres are a few feet behind the sofa - so I hoped that it would give a bit more "rear" depth to the sound, and thats exactly what it has done.

I tried 6.1 first - and with the centre and the 6th speaker opposite each other it didn't work, but 7.1 sounds very nice

makes a nice difference to PLIIx (2 channel content, tv stuff)

for movies, I often find DD and or DTS + PLIIx (for the rear surrounds) - a bit too biased to the rear centres, not sure why - doesn't seem to work that well in my setup

but on my Pioneer amp I have another mode DD or DTS + SX (not sure what SX is - Studio surround or something) and that sounds more of a "blend" at the rear - which sounds better to my ears.

 

[selden]

If I understood correctly, the surround channels from a 5.1 SACD should often be going to the REAR surrounds, for the placing and angle, and the side surrounds should be silent. Again, if I understood correctly, and I don't know how you get a processor to do that. Oh, maybe it must simply be analogs I suppose, to the correct inputs . . .

According to the THX Web site, selecting THX Music mode does direct more of the surround audio to the rear speakers than if you select THX Cinema mode. Of course, that does require having an AVR or pre/pro with those options.

See http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-surround-sound-modes/

 

[Buckster]

be interested in how "THX Ultra 2" mode differs from those too ...

 

[selden]

THX Ultra 2 is a certification for audio systems. In order to get that rating, a device has to include any of a number of features, which vary depending on the type of device. THX does not make public all of the features needed to get an Ultra 2 certification.

In contrast, Music Mode is a particular audio manipulation defined by THX.

 

[Moonlight]

Interesting posts thanks
I've been under the impression, (can't remember where I heard it) that the surround rears in a 7.1 setup were only channeling what was going through the fronts?
Is this the case, or do movies these days provide something different for these channels?
Even if it was a duplicate of the fronts at a lower volume, it is still a positive in providing a 360 enveloping sound. Was the addition of the 2 rear channels just to allow for future improvements?

 

[selden]

Moonlight,

I suspect you're thinking of what's sometimes called "all channel stereo".

There are quite a few movies (over 100, I think) which have full 6.1 or 7.1 surround sound audio tracks.

Most modern AVRs include several different methods to expand whatever audio channels are available, 2.0 to 5.1, into 7.1.