DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Chu Gai]

According to an anonymous source with intimate connections to AV451, speakers from China or Colombia were never subjected to any sorts of tests or quality control inspections. Efforts were made, but not by MLS, to have Colombia implement a system (Praxis measurement suite with built-in QC program) whereby they could measure speakers as they came off the 'assembly line' but that was met with indifference and nothing happened. It should be noted that it was also not implemented in Longmont. The sorts of problems that were observed were,

• improper wiring
• wrong components in the crossovers
• the wrong drivers
• missing screws
• corroded screws
• sundry veneer problems
• gasket problems including missing, torn, and incomplete sealing
• binding post attachment issues
• nail pops

and a host of others you're free to add to. Not everyone had these problems but this particular source was the proud beneficiary of Mini's that not only were miswired, but had two different tweeters. And of course, as time went on, the veneer on the cabinets became problematic. At one time, there was a GTG on the West coast where it was found that two pairs of the same model of speakers were found to sound distinctly different. Both MLS and DR were present with the latter saying that's an example of the break-in phenomena. Even now, we're hearing that the latest batch of MFW's, with amps that are made in America, have problems with the auto shut-off not working. One can only imagine what it will be like when and if the new line of speakers and/or subs ever hit the marketplace.

 

[Jed M]

You know it really is amazing how the old "if its too good to be true" saying is always correct.

On a side note, it does make me feel a lot better when I went to their forum and read about some guy who couldn't find any info or pics of the LS-6's. Until that point I know my recent LS-6 and Ref 3's comparison was being read by potential buyers and that really made me feel pretty crappy. I even received a correspondence from an unassuming sucker asking me further questions about my review. It was at that point I started demanding my posts be removed. Too bad Mark, I could have really helped that guy, along with the rest of us you flat out f*#cked out of our place to hang out. You know, the place WE built until all of the sudden you declared it was us not playing by the rules. Your rules, your house remember? Hope its working out for you. I "see" you "were" "posting" under AV123 Sales "last night". Enjoy "your" forum.

 

[cschang]

At one time, there was a GTG on the West coast where it was found that two pairs of the same model of speakers were found to sound distinctly different. Both MLS and DR were present with the latter saying that's an example of the break-in phenomena.

I was present at another small GTG (5 guys, a lot of bookshelf speakers, no MLS or DR) where the same exact thing happened, maybe the same speakers. The owner contacted MLS and DR to try and determine the problem and was given the same "break-in" line. BTW, the speakers had plenty of time on them, and the differences were very audible.

I think later, DR suggested some resister changes to get the two different speakers to sound more similar.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Ah yes, the break-in phenomena! Take a count how many times that excuse was used on their forum. Whenever there was a customer not happy with the sound of his speakers or raising any other sundry questions it was always a break-in issue or improper amplification being used by the owner

 

[Chu Gai]

I was present at another small GTG (5 guys, a lot of bookshelf speakers, no MLS or DR) where the same exact thing happened, maybe the same speakers. The owner contacted MLS and DR to try and determine the problem and was given the same "break-in" line. BTW, the speakers had plenty of time on them, and the differences were very audible.

I think later, DR suggested some resister changes to get the two different speakers to sound more similar.

Ah yes, the break-in phenomena! Take a count how many times that excuse was used on their forum. Whenever there was a customer not happy with the sound of his speakers or raising any other sundry questions it was always a break-in issue or improper amplification being used by the owner

As most will recall, one of the big sellers were upgraded crossovers. Some folks noted rather dramatic differences. Others not so much. More of a subtle thing if you will. When you consider the information my source provided, and it jives with what I've been saying for a long time, the reason for the substantial differences had much to do with the large variability with the crossover components, their assembly, and their attachment to the drivers themselves. If you've got speakers from AV451 and have intentions of holding on to them, probably the best thing to do is to either spring for the upgraded crossovers or get a hold of the schematic and make your own replacing their parts with decent parts sourced domestically. That's what made the whole thing so vexing for people because some folks got properly assembled speakers and others got who know what? Just about everyone assumed at the time that all the speakers were essentially the same. I suspect MLS knew what the real deal was and if I can ever get him extradited to Pakistan, we'll waterboard the SOB.

 

[thenatinator]

As most will recall, one of the big sellers were upgraded crossovers. Some folks noted rather dramatic differences. Others not so much. More of a subtle thing if you will. When you consider the information my source provided, and it jives with what I've been saying for a long time, the reason for the substantial differences had much to do with the large variability with the crossover components, their assembly, and their attachment to the drivers themselves. If you've got speakers from AV451 and have intentions of holding on to them, probably the best thing to do is to either spring for the upgraded crossovers or get a hold of the schematic and make your own replacing their parts with decent parts sourced domestically. That's what made the whole thing so vexing for people because some folks got properly assembled speakers and others got who know what? Just about everyone assumed at the time that all the speakers were essentially the same. I suspect MLS knew what the real deal was and if I can ever get him extradited to Pakistan, we'll waterboard the SOB.

Speaking of the SOB at av123 and improvements through better crossovers... Looks like the ninja is selling his ls 6s on audiogon....
"Here they are! The Danny Richie-designed Line Source LS6 speaker. This pair was built by The Ninja himself with pride and NOT AV123. They are brand new speakers veneered in Rosewood Satin. We are rating them at 8/10 because there are no perfect pairs of these speakers. There are always minor veneer fissures and the like - nothing you can see from more than a foot away and in good light - so not something you should fret over. System: 2-way, 14-driver line source, vented enclosure with 8 rear-firing flared ports. Drivers: Six (6) customized BG Neo 8 midrange/tweeter panels, eight (8) custom 6.5" xbl² woofers per speaker Impedance: 8 ohms Efficiency: 90dB (1w/1m) Dimensions: 68" H x 16.5" D x 12.375" W"

Hope he finally gets his money back.

 

[Chu Gai]

At least they'll be made correctly and not by the folks at Longmont.

 

[gonk]

That would be a good way to get a set of LS-6's without fear of hidden assembly defects. Sad that a brand new set of cabinets don't rate better than an "8/10" on the Audiogon scale, though.

 

[T2T]

Speaking of the SOB at av123 and improvements through better crossovers... Looks like the ninja is selling his ls 6s on audiogon....
"Here they are! The Danny Richie-designed Line Source LS6 speaker. This pair was built by The Ninja himself with pride and NOT AV123. They are brand new speakers veneered in Rosewood Satin. We are rating them at 8/10 because there are no perfect pairs of these speakers. There are always minor veneer fissures and the like - nothing you can see from more than a foot away and in good light - so not something you should fret over. System: 2-way, 14-driver line source, vented enclosure with 8 rear-firing flared ports. Drivers: Six (6) customized BG Neo 8 midrange/tweeter panels, eight (8) custom 6.5" xbl² woofers per speaker Impedance: 8 ohms Efficiency: 90dB (1w/1m) Dimensions: 68" H x 16.5" D x 12.375" W"

Hope he finally gets his money back.

There's probably also a 2nd angle along with getting his money back. That being, he's probably so frustrated with VA321 that he'd never be able to look at, live with and appreciate the speakers.

 

[richeydog]

Even now, we're hearing that the latest batch of MFW's, with amps that are made in America, have problems with the auto shut-off not working. One can only imaginewhat it will be like when and if the new line of speakers and/or subs ever hit the marketplace.

With the next generation of subs, you would have to call the local bomb squad to replace your amp.

 

[thenatinator]

That would be a good way to get a set of LS-6's without fear of hidden assembly defects. Sad that a brand new set of cabinets don't rate better than an "8/10" on the Audiogon scale, though.

Probably the only way to get one that you don't fret about or feel guilty about buying..... At least he's honest about the quality of the cabinets. Who knows what is considered NIB at av123 anymore and it's not like they will be around to honor the waranty.

 

[thenatinator]

There's probably also a 2nd angle along with getting his money back. That being, he's probably so frustrated with VA321 that he'd never be able to look at, live with and appreciate the speakers.

I think he can be proud that he's selling one of the few good pairs of ls6s ever made..... I'm sure a buyer who is removed from the process will be able to enjoy them without the av123 taint. Hopefully the sale will provides some closure as well.

 

[Chu Gai]

Satin Black Is Back And Now It's Made In The USA!!

That's what AV451 says. But is it? By now, we're all familiar with AV451's claims and those of its f(l)ounder, MLS. In some cases they've been outright fabrications. In others, they've been a remarkable stretching of the truth to the point of deception. Occasionally, he tells the truth which some have speculated may've been a contributory factor to his heart ailments.

When a company makes a claim like Made In The USA, without any qualifications, it's saying something quite specific. At least the FTC, which has the authority to bring law enforcement to bear in order to prevent deception and unfairness in the marketplace, seems to think so. Please take the time to read the following: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm which addresses this matter. For those who aren't inclined to read it, consider the following which has been taken from the FTC link.

What factors does the Commission consider to determine whether a product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.?

The product’s final assembly or processing must take place in the U.S. The Commission then considers other factors, including how much of the product’s total manufacturing costs can be assigned to U.S. parts and processing, and how far removed any foreign content is from the finished product. In some instances, only a small portion of the total manufacturing costs are attributable to foreign processing, but that processing represents a significant amount of the product’s overall processing. The same could be true for some foreign parts. In these cases, the foreign content (processing or parts) is more than negligible, and, as a result, unqualified claims are inappropriate.

Example: A company produces propane barbecue grills at a plant in Nevada. The product’s major components include the gas valve, burner and aluminum housing, each of which is made in the U.S. The grill’s knobs and tubing are imported from Mexico. An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the product’s total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product.

Example: A table lamp is assembled in the U.S. from American-made brass, an American-made Tiffany-style lampshade, and an imported base. The base accounts for a small percent of the total cost of making the lamp. An unqualified Made in USA claim is deceptive for two reasons: The base is not far enough removed in the manufacturing process from the finished product to be of little consequence and it is a significant part of the final product.

Perhaps someone who isn't banned will ask AV451 for clarification as to just what their claim means? After all, if the MFW cabinets came from Colombia but were sprayed domestically, that sounds like the second example. If the amp module comes from QSC but the rest comes from overseas, that also sounds like the second example. I'm pretty sure that when Sean picked up his cabinets, he got a look at what was in the warehouse.

So, Kyle, since everyone knows your sorry a$$ is reading this thread and you communicate regularly with the new administration team, perhaps you can offer an unsolicited post as AV Sales on this matter. Otherwise, next Monday, I will contact the FTC by email, mail, and phone advising them to look into the advertisement and also provide them with a screen capture to substantiate my concerns.

 

[gonk]

They had better get some of those nice US-made products in stock soon. The site now shows only five speakers (X-Static, X-Voce, LS-4, LS-6, and LS-9), one sub (MFW-15), one amp (the now-famous but apparently never-purchased Rocket Tube Amp 6550), and the old P-1A (with SOCS as an option for lots of speakers that they don't make anymore but none of the few they do still offer). Not only are the ELT525's gone completely now, but the X-Amp and X-Head are gone as well.

 

[Chu Gai]

Update On Last Friday's Arraignment

I spoke with Carol, the court clerk, who informed me the arraignment has been continued to June 29th. MLS at that time will be represented by a Steven Jacobson. There may be more attorneys with that name, but I think it's this one.

You can probably contact Kyle if you'd like to contribute to his defense fund as Mr. Jacobson will not be acting in the capacity of a public defender. Otherwise, you can purchase sundry goods MLS has for sale on craigslist, or just tell him not to bother with sending you your refund or returning your monies that he obtained by selling products that don't exist, investments into the Cali operation, or just general business loans.

 

[mhawker]

I spoke with Carol, the court clerk, who informed me the arraignment has been continued to June 29th.

Hmmm. Maybe I can change my dates and arrive in Colorado a day earlier than I planned. See how it goes first hand.

 

[thenatinator]

That's what AV451 says. But is it? By now, we're all familiar with AV451's claims and those of its f(l)ounder, MLS. In some cases they've been outright fabrications. In others, they've been a remarkable stretching of the truth to the point of deception. Occasionally, he tells the truth which some have speculated may've been a contributory factor to his heart ailments.

When a company makes a claim like Made In The USA, without any qualifications, it's saying something quite specific. At least the FTC, which has the authority to bring law enforcement to bear in order to prevent deception and unfairness in the marketplace, seems to think so. Please take the time to read the following: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm which addresses this matter. For those who aren't inclined to read it, consider the following which has been taken from the FTC link.



Perhaps someone who isn't banned will ask AV451 for clarification as to just what their claim means? After all, if the MFW cabinets came from Colombia but were sprayed domestically, that sounds like the second example. If the amp module comes from QSC but the rest comes from overseas, that also sounds like the second example. I'm pretty sure that when Sean picked up his cabinets, he got a look at what was in the warehouse.

So, Kyle, since everyone knows your sorry a$$ is reading this thread and you communicate regularly with the new administration team, perhaps you can offer an unsolicited post as AV Sales on this matter. Otherwise, next Monday, I will contact the FTC by email, mail, and phone advising them to look into the advertisement and also provide them with a screen capture to substantiate my concerns.

Or they could just delete all the incriminating information from their website... Like they appear to have done.... What a sorry bunch liars and revissionists.

 

[Chu Gai]

That's the 'new administration' that Field Marshall Steidle reports to.

 

[penpitt]

He's back

I guess this would be his first official post in awhile.

http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=43894

 

[Chu Gai]

The OP is such a tool. MLS must've been in therapy as he used very few of these, ...