DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[tesseract]

3 amps now, should the third one actually appear. They are claiming the newest amp will be 100% made in the USA and they are ditching the separate control panel.

You mean the control panel that they provided because the shape of the slotted port forced the amp to sit at the very bottom of the rear panel, making it very difficult to adjust the amp's controls once you got this big, heavy cabinet settled into position? If so, I hope they still maintain a healthy stock of replacement amps for all the existing subs that were built and sold with the separate control panel - as owners of some of their other subs have learned, replacement amps from different sources (especially the ones picked up from Parts Express with about a third less power) can exhibit problems fitting into existing cabinets even when you don't eliminate entire components like separate control panels.

Yes, the top mounted control panel is supposed to disappear, mostly because of all the troubles they have had with the control panel harness coming undone during shipping. Not sure how they are planning to block off the hole, it wasn't mentioned, and not sure if there will be a new MFW-15, though it appears so. Wonder what ever happened to the "Hot Rod" upgrade with the crappy Pierce driver?

I recently inquired about a replacement amp for my MFW-15. I have been experiencing FM/DTV interference. I asked about it in the av12Guilty forum, the AVS forum, AH forum and sent several emails. Kyle spent a considerable amount of time on the phone with me, and Chu offered his help via the forums. No dice, so I thought I might try another amp.

As you stated, gonk, the trouble I might have with replacement amp might not make the effort worth it. I only have the interference when watching OTH DTV or listening to FM. Other sources are free of this problem, so I chose to live with it... for now. Motor City upgrade in the future, or I'll sell the damn thing and replace it with something more reliable.

Then again, I may try another amp just to see how it goes, provided that the thing ever sees the light of day.

 

[tesseract]

I recently inquired about a replacement amp for my MFW-15. I have been experiencing FM/DTV interference.

Oh yeah, I have also been experiencing loud turn off thumps on the rare occasions I actually turn this thing off. Kinda makes me uneasy after hearing that the amp might not actually be UL or CE rated. Haven't heard of any fires... yet.

 

[Chu Gai]

Oh yeah, I have also been experiencing loud turn off thumps on the rare occasions I actually turn this thing off. Kinda makes me uneasy after hearing that the amp might not actually be UL or CE rated. Haven't heard of any fires... yet.

It's highly unlikely that it is is and FWIW, that FCC logo is just that. A logo. Got to save money where possible and pass the savings on to you.

 

[gonk]

I agree with you - from what I've seen, there are a great many people who once supported the company (through their own purchases, through business they helped steer to the company, and through their well-intentioned actions) and have been left to figure out just what they believe in the wake of being clearly manipulated and deceived. Those individuals have been "schiftered" and struggled to adjust their positions. They are victims in this. Some have decided to simply go silent, some have attempted to offer some limited "voice of reason" on AV123's forum (it has to be pretty limited to avoid a permanent ban), and some speak openly about their mistreatment.

The number of supporters who remain blindly loyal has dwindled precipitously. I think that some remain supportive and have elected to simply be quiet, but there are at least a few who will speak openly and in support of the company and its ownership. They aren't responsible for the company's mis-deeds and I think their marketing value is pretty limited at this point. If I had to guess, it's someone from that little group that's been throwing PM trolls at majorloser.

 

[Jed M]

Well, I finally got them to delete my account with all my posts. It took about 2 weeks of arm twisting, giving up on Kyle and threatening Suzanne to go to the CO Attorney General with my invoices directly from AV123.com (not Mark) to get them to do it, but it is done. I also tried to get my money back for the AV123 invoiced raffles (which I would have just turned around and donated to one of my favorite charities) but that proved impossible.

BTW, I know you are reading this Suzanne and I wanted to tell you to not wait around for my cc (carbon copy) of the invoices I was going to send you via the AG today. I sent those to Detective Sloan months ago. What? Did you think I would actually try to cover up charity fraud? That sounds like something AV123 would do...

Although I am serious about sending my refused money refund request to the BBB. There is a reason for everything, or so they say. Thanks for all your help.

 

[T2T]

I found this response interesting. It was posted as a comment to the on-line article of Mark's arrest in the Longmont TimesCall newspaper.

As a member of the referenced high end audio community, where Mr. Schifter practiced his trade for thirty years, first in retail, then in other... pursuits... let me tell Longmont it surely would have benefitted you generous Coloradoans to have known that Mark from early on had been dubbed "Schifty", a moniker he was never able to live down, despite protests that he had turned a new leaf. In fact, had found the Lord and converted to Christianity!

Anyway that's what he said, when he promised to make good on the $1100 he'd taken me for around 1994. Did a check arrive soon thereafter? No. He asked me to bear with, for a while.

Classic!

Was I a party to my loss? Most definitely! Weeks after I had resigned myself to the fraud, a box arrived at my premises intended for another party. I can't recall how it happened to have become misdirected, but it was worth $950 and would have greatly assuaged my feelings. So did I keep it?

Happily, no.

No nasty nicknames for me, even at Schifty's place.

clark johnsen, boston MA, 3/2/2010 10:29 PM

 

[wshuff]

Is that this guy:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0803/pf8n3johnsen.htm

 

[Chu Gai]

Is that this guy:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0803/pf8n3johnsen.htm

Same one. CJ's kind of nutso in the same way Serinus is but that doesn't excuse not paying a person back.

 

[wshuff]

I seem to recall reading an article once about John Lennon's death, and some vast conspiracy involving the KGB, FBI, CIA? I'm not sure, but I think it was by the same guy.

 

[MinusTheBear]

It will be interesting if the documentations such as Jed M noted gets presented to the judge/jury and if they think that it suggests there was commingling beyond the solitication of funds by the president using the companies own forum. IMO there is a possibility that the judge/jury might see fit to revoke their business license in the state of Colorado.

 

[Jed M]

When I discovered I had receipts that were actually from AV123 it was days before the indictment came down. Detective Sloan told me that mine were unique because they actually came straight from AV123 and not Mark's paypal account. Obviously they didn't have time to do anything before the indictment, but I am hoping that someday AV123 faces/accepts the responsibility they are so desperately trying to shed.

And to further clarify about getting my account and posts removed, I would have done it myself but they cowardly revoked all of my posting/editing/PM privileges without actually banning me. Therefore people could read all of my useful post without seeing "banned" under my name. I wonder how many other people they have done that to? I just found out one day when I went to PM John and found out they had "half banned" me. All the upside for them, with none of the downside. After that, they awoke my anger again. I seriously wonder what motivates these guys, but they backfired on this one.

I think I will send my receipts on to the AG as well, just in case they got lost in the shuffle.

 

[Chu Gai]

Those were real special receipts Jed! Why, I might just think that not only does it make MLS culpable but the organization as a whole. BTW, among the many hats Suzy wore, wasn't one of them CFO?

 

[Jed M]

Those were real special receipts Jed! Why, I might just think that not only does it make MLS culpable but the organization as a whole. BTW, among the many hats Suzy wore, wasn't one of them CFO?

From our conversation the only hat I saw her wear was that of Not Me's.

 

[s52e368]

wow.. been trying to catch up. but 4 hundy is a bit much my ADD cant take that. anyone care to type up some cliffs for someone thats been around and is interested but not involved directly ?

 

[T2T]

wow.. been trying to catch up. but 4 hundy is a bit much my ADD cant take that. anyone care to type up some cliffs for someone thats been around and is interested but not involved directly ?

Trust me, it's worthy of reading through - albeit, long as it is.

 

[s52e368]

..........

 

[gonk]

And to further clarify about getting my account and posts removed, I would have done it myself but they cowardly revoked all of my posting/editing/PM privileges without actually banning me. Therefore people could read all of my useful post without seeing "banned" under my name. I wonder how many other people they have done that to? I just found out one day when I went to PM John and found out they had "half banned" me. All the upside for them, with none of the downside. After that, they awoke my anger again. I seriously wonder what motivates these guys, but they backfired on this one.

That's some stupid stuff right there. More than once lately, I've found their behavior to be exceedingly short-sighted (even for a group with their track record of product problems, delays, forum shut-downs, and raffle nonsense).

 

[gonk]

wow.. been trying to catch up. but 4 hundy is a bit much my ADD cant take that. anyone care to type up some cliffs for someone thats been around and is interested but not involved directly ?

Even the short form is a long story. Let's see how quick I can make it, though...

• Starting around 2000, AV123 uses various audio/video forums (including their own starting in late 2002) and Mark's personality to build a large, loyal, and vocal following. Sneak peeks at upcoming products becomes part of the process, as does taking pre-orders for those products. The Rocket speaker line and the Onix Reference line are good enough to provide some substance to the hype.
• At some point (2004?), AV123 falls behind in making payments to Sound Art China, the factory that builds the Rocket and Onix Reference speakers. Note that Mark and AV123 have no ownership stake in the factory, despite comments suggesting such a connection.
• In October 2004, Mark runs the first raffle to raise money for his granddaughter's ballet studio. It's very successful. Unfortunately, Mark keeps the money (allegedly).
• Some of the products that are developed with lots of "sneak peeks" and hype prove disappointing, such as the ULW-12 subwoofer (performance that doesn't match the promised figures) and the ULW-10/UFW-10 (production runs after the first batch are plagued by bad amplifiers). Owners are left waiting several years for a solution, and in some cases must pay extra for a "hot rod" kit to upgrade their product to the originally promised level.
• The X-series speakers bring additional business to the company, and shortly after it is launched AV123 moves all production to a brand new factory in Cali, Colombia. The factory is plagued with problems (high rate of "b-stock" due to veneering defects, dust contamination from neighboring concrete plant, etc.).
• Several promised products are delayed multiple years. These include Rocket RSC-500, Onix Reference 200 center speaker, BMF subwoofer, X-Plosive subwoofer, X-LS SWG monitor, and several electronics products under the "X" line, although there are others that could be included on the list. Some of these products have now been officially scrapped, even though customers pre-paid for them by purchasing gift certificates.
• Mark announces a new speaker called the RSL-II, to be developed by him in partnership with several others (notably Arnie Nudell) and sold through a company called Act3 Audio. He indicates that beta samples are maybe 90 days away from delivery in spring of 2007 and invites people to buy in as beta testers for $6,000 (a discount from the planned retail price of $13,000+). The beta eventually expands from two or three people to a dozen people, each paying $6,000. At last report, the RSL-II was still on the drawing board. Act3 has no web presence and there is no word on when beta samples might be built.
• At some point around 2007 or 2008, SAC ceases production of Rocket speakers and drops AV123 as an authorized Onix dealer in the US due to unpaid bills. AV123 quietly moves production of a few Rocket models to a new factory. Several models (bookshelves, small center, and surrounds) are discontinued in the process.
• Between October 2004 and December 2008, Mark runs over two dozen raffles. Some are to raise funds for organizations, and some are to raise funds for individuals in the community. He collects over $180,000 through these raffles. Based on an investigation by the Colorado District Attorney and Longmont CO Police, about $150,000 of that finds it way into Mark's pocket rather than going to the charity involved. Many of the charities never knew about the raffles (including major non-profits like American Red Cross and Dana Farber).
• The forum starts to see a lot of negative discussion in 2008 as people demand promised products, promised refunds, and other support, although at that point the issue of missing raffle funds is not yet being discussed publicly. AV123 closes the forum for a week or two in late 2008, then closes it again in January 2009 and leaves it closed for six months. While it is closed, questions arise in other forums regarding the raffles and unpaid donations. When it re-opens, new moderation policies are established (but not published) that delete any posts about refunds, raffles, or undelivered products purchased with pre-pays. Within a couple months, permanent bans start to become more common as long-time company supporters discover how widespread the deception has been and start asking inconvenient questions.
• LS-6 and LS-9 deliveries are extremely slow, with people waiting years between pre-payment and delivery. AV123 promises delivery dates to individuals and then misses those dates. In several cases, assembly mistakes have also been discovered in delivered products.
• In February 2010, Mark is indicted by the Colorado District Attorney for the raffles. He spends almost a week in the Boulder Jail until his bond is reduced enough to make bail.

The sad thing is that I've left a ton of details out (including this thread's original poster, who was ripped off by Mark back in 2008), so you can see why T2T recommended reading through it.

 

[Jed M]

That was a great synopsis there Gonk. Of course it is hard to include everything, like all the smears and character assassinations Mark privately told insiders about people who questioned his conduct, or the way he screwed over other suppliers besides SAC, or fact that he has a history of being known as "Shifty" well before this century, or the fallout of the victims of his raffle crimes, like Wayland's retirement fund or his daughter's name plastered all over google tied to a raffle scam or dying parents/friends being used as pawns, but overall I think to add that kind of stuff would defeat the purpose of a cliff notes version. It definitely is worth a read if you got the time, but Gonk hit on pretty much the most significant parts regarding the crimes.

Btw, do people even use cliff notes anymore now that the internet is around? Those things got me through high school. I like to read, but come on, who has time as a 17 year old.

 

[Chu Gai]

Sources of revenue and other things

If you're wondering where some of the money is coming from, you might find these links interesting.

• Franck Muller 2500 MC D - $12500 (Boulder, CO)
  
• GIANT WARP SE - $260 (Boulder, CO)
  
• Young Chang Baby Grand with Player Option - $9950 (Boulder, CO)
  
• Woodplay Play Structure with all the accessories - $500 (Boulder, Colorado)

They make for a fun read and you can find your own listings, some of which have expired by searching under the email address (PM me if you can't find the one that says v3rubicon) or other posted information. Act quickly now, you'll be looking at obtaining a piece of history here folks.

Now, to other things. We've all speculated that MLS = TADG. Stereodude pointed out that he's the only one who ever spells Group as Groupe and the style of writing is hard to camoflage. As you read through the postings above, you'll find a phone number. If you dial the number you'll eventually get to voice mail with a message. Listen to it. More stuff maybe tomorrow.