OHM Walsh F driver rebuilds

[JerryLove]

I recently came into a pair of Ohm Walsh F speakers. The surrounds are rotted, and it looks like the drivers have been driven sans-surround (there is wrinkling and some small tears in the titunium upper portion). Also, the spider is pretty droopy.

OK. So the driver assembly needs to be replaced. The problem is that when I go to the OHM site, they stopped making these drivers when the last craftsman retired. The suggest replacing them with drivers from their newer series.

Some have said that the new drivers are not "walsh" drivers. Certainly the cost doesn't stack up, nor some of the design specifics:
http://www.ohmspeakers.com/store_item_detail.cfm?item_ID=38&cart_ID=312108369310

I also came across someone who says that he manufactures walsh driver... better because of things like better spiders, but I cannot tell to what extent he's a skilled builder, and to what extent a snake-oil salesman:
http://hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm

So the questions running through my head include:
Should I prefer an original-type driver like HHR is building; or is the newer driver as good / better?

What is the end result worth in terms of sound. I got the units very cheap, but it doesn't look like any repair option will be. What is the best money-to-return?

 

[swspiers]

Congrats on the F's. I'm taking possession of a pair of them myself in about a month.

I have spent A LOT of time researching the Ohms, and currently own a pair of the Micro Walsh Talls.

In general, I can tell you the HHR exotics is the real deal. I've emailed him quite a few times, and he is extremely helpful and knowedgeable on all things Walsh.

Yes- the new Ohms are a modified Walsh design that makes use of a tweeter above 16,000 Hz. Below that, it's a single driver with no crossover in the critical mid-range. The new Ohm's are also not truly omni-directional, as they are attenduated in the rear to allow for placement closer to the rear wall, among other things.

Please feel free to PM me, and I can hook you up with all sorts of Ohm information and enthusiasts.

-Scott

 

[timinator2]

So you're the guy that beat me to it on craigslist. How'd you do that? I was sure I would be first in

I had a pair of F's that I traded in for a pair of rosewood walsh 5's back in 1990. I haven't modded or upgraded them since, and haven't really found the need. This was both a step up, and a step down. Having lived with both for an exteded period I feel I can qualify the differences between the two. The 5's definitely are capable of more output and power handling, but the lost some immediacy to gain that. If you are playing all Wagner all the time, the 5's are the ticket. But put on Ella Fitzgerald's Birthday Concert and F's poke the 5's in the eye. Don't get me wrong, the 5's are great speakers. But I think in that quest for bulletproofness, they lost a little of that "you are there" experience that shines with the f's.

I would echo Scotts comments above and would add the following: I have had some interaction via email with Dale Harder and he is indeed the real deal. He's responsive and it is clear he really does know these drivers inside and out. He hasn't just recreated the driver but re-engineered it. Short of buying new drivers from Dale, your best bet is to have your F's restored by him. If I come into another pair, that is what I will do.

I may revisit that poking in the eye statement once I have reconfigured my system. Currently I am running my sources into a MX110 tuner/preamp and an Aragon 4004MKII. I am going to switch to a DEQX 2.6P and a MC240 for the super-tweeter and the 4004MKII for the walsh driver. I'm curious to see if I will see a big improvement with the DEQX's speaker and room correction bypassing the crossover - which is a complicated beast in the 5's.

All the best with your quest, and let us know how it turns out.

-Tim

 

[jrayton]

Call John Strohbeen, President of Ohm Walsh Speakers. (1-800-783-1553). He would be glad to help You.

 

[JerryLove]

So you're the guy that beat me to it on craigslist. How'd you do that? I was sure I would be first in

I've learned to be quick. There's an eBay seller around here, not only beat me to a Denon rosewood turntable (I would have just put that on eBay anyway) but (and I'm more mad because it's my fault) beat me to a pair of fully-intact B&W CM7s *and* center for $250.

Worse: I think I know who sold them and I'm the one that nudged him into it.

Bloody hell

I would echo Scotts comments above and would add the following: I have had some interaction via email with Dale Harder and he is indeed the real deal. He's responsive and it is clear he really does know these drivers inside and out. He hasn't just recreated the driver but re-engineered it. Short of buying new drivers from Dale, your best bet is to have your F's restored by him. If I come into another pair, that is what I will do.

There are not multiple options from Dale. You send in the entire speaker, you get a new driver and upgraded speaker.

I tried to talk him into just replacing the top half, but he wasn't receptive. I may be able to work on him though as rebracing the cabinet isn't a terribly difficult thing to do and should save considerable money, and the cabinet itself is in great shape.

I'm also hoping to talk him out of some of the less useful portions of his upgrades (silver wire and saulder) to see if I can shave considerably from the $4500 (plus shipping) price tag.

The thing is: as far as I can tell he's the only way to get a genuine Walsh-stype driver. Ohm no longer makes them (the newer units you a more conventional driver design).

Thank you all for your kind words of support

 

[Loren42]

I recently came into a pair of Ohm Walsh F speakers. The surrounds are rotted, and it looks like the drivers have been driven sans-surround (there is wrinkling and some small tears in the titunium upper portion). Also, the spider is pretty droopy.

OK. So the driver assembly needs to be replaced. The problem is that when I go to the OHM site, they stopped making these drivers when the last craftsman retired. The suggest replacing them with drivers from their newer series.

Some have said that the new drivers are not "walsh" drivers. Certainly the cost doesn't stack up, nor some of the design specifics:
http://www.ohmspeakers.com/store_item_detail.cfm?item_ID=38&cart_ID=312108369310

I also came across someone who says that he manufactures walsh driver... better because of things like better spiders, but I cannot tell to what extent he's a skilled builder, and to what extent a snake-oil salesman:
http://hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm

So the questions running through my head include:
Should I prefer an original-type driver like HHR is building; or is the newer driver as good / better?

What is the end result worth in terms of sound. I got the units very cheap, but it doesn't look like any repair option will be. What is the best money-to-return?

There is one guy in Ohio that rebuilds these puppies and has been doing it for ages. He also builds a version of the F and A systems from scratch!

His name is Dale Harder and he can be contacted at:

HHR Exotic Speakers

I have not personally bought any of his speakers, but I have exchanged emails with him on a number of occasions and he is a good straight up guy.

He has a huge investment in the Walsh design and I mean huge.

440-888-2163

 

[swspiers]

Hey Jerry. Getting some good responses I see...

Another option is The Speaker Exchange out of Florida. I talked to them briefly about refurbishing the F's, and they seemed pretty condifent that they can handle the job. I think the price is below $750 foir each speaker, and you only ship the them and not the enclosure. I have no direct experience with them at all, so hopefully someone else of this forum does.

I myself am undecided on what I'll be doing with my F's. I might even sell them to another Ohm enthusiast. But I'm leaning towards totally replacing the drivers with the new 3000 model. The F's, at original spec, are a fussy speaker. The modern drivers are superior in terms of output, bass extension and efficiency. And Ohm is a fantastic company to deal with.

But there is something about a true Walsh speaker that nothing else can replace...

Good luck and PLEASE keep us updated.

-S

 

[swspiers]

Oh yeah.
The speaker exchange contact info: cathy@speakerex.com

 

[JerryLove]

Another option is The Speaker Exchange out of Florida. I talked to them briefly about refurbishing the F's, and they seemed pretty condifent that they can handle the job. I think the price is below $750 foir each speaker, and you only ship the them and not the enclosure.

Really? They are about 8 miles from my house, so I have no need to ship at all

I've had them recone a (non-walsh) driver for me and refoam a few and they've done excellent work. I'm more than a little surprised on the Walsh, but will talk to them about it.

I myself am undecided on what I'll be doing with my F's. I might even sell them to another Ohm enthusiast. But I'm leaning towards totally replacing the drivers with the new 3000 model. The F's, at original spec, are a fussy speaker. The modern drivers are superior in terms of output, bass extension and efficiency. And Ohm is a fantastic company to deal with.

I'm not convinced that the modern drivers don't sacrifice much of what makes the walsh a walsh (though I don't know that they do either). At the price involved, there are a lot of omnipolar options.

 

[swspiers]

Really? They are about 8 miles from my house, so I have no need to ship at all

I've had them recone a (non-walsh) driver for me and refoam a few and they've done excellent work.

Please let me know what happens. I'm moving to Virginia in about 6 weeks, at which time I'll start to figure out what I'm going to do with the F's. If Speaker Exchange can really handle the job, that would greatly influence what I decide to do.

-S

 

[TLS Guy]

I would have Dale Harder restore them. He knows and loves those drivers. For a specialist product you need a specialist and he is.

There is no doubt that sending the drivers to him is by far your best solution.

I have always had a soft spot for those drivers, and having them restored will be a worthwhile endeavor.

The current Ohm speakers are now where near of the class of the older ones.

 

[JerryLove]

Another option is The Speaker Exchange out of Florida.

Speaker Exchange is no longer able to offer replacing the drivers as they no longer have a source for the drivers. (pity, would have likely gone that route)

I'm pondering the value of selling them to someone who wants to persue the upgrades. There's the (relatively inexpensive) option of using one of OHM's upgrades, but I'm kind-of a purist... and there's the Dale option, but that's a lot for a speaker I'm not pre-obsessed with (I don't know what I will think of the F when I am done, this was grabbed as an experiment).

Hrm...

 

[TLS Guy]

Speaker Exchange is no longer able to offer replacing the drivers as they no longer have a source for the drivers. (pity, would have likely gone that route)

And that would be the wrong decision. Those drivers really are special, and they need an enthusiast to repair them.

If you don't want to have the job done properly, then you need to find someone who will.

 

[swspiers]

A part of me wants to argue that point, TLS Guy, but the other part agrees. I'm sitting on F's with mis-matched drivers that have both been modified. I wanted to restore them to original spec, but one driver is from the 70's, the other from about '81. They have different impedance and frequency response. It's virtually impossible to deal with that without outright replacing the drivers.

On the other hand, modern Ohm's are nothing to scoff at. They may not be true Walshes, but they're still incredible speakers and among the best I've ever heard regardless of price.

 

[TLS Guy]

A part of me wants to argue that point, TLS Guy, but the other part agrees. I'm sitting on F's with mis-matched drivers that have both been modified. I wanted to restore them to original spec, but one driver is from the 70's, the other from about '81. They have different impedance and frequency response. It's virtually impossible to deal with that without outright replacing the drivers.

On the other hand, modern Ohm's are nothing to scoff at. They may not be true Walshes, but they're still incredible speakers and among the best I've ever heard regardless of price.

When the drivers are rebuilt, they will have the same frequency response and impedance. I'm sure restoration involves reconing and therefore the voice coils will be replaced and impedance will match.

 

[JerryLove]

And that would be the wrong decision. Those drivers really are special, and they need an enthusiast to repair them.

If you don't want to have the job done properly, then you need to find someone who will.

Actually: They were replacing them with stock Walsh-F drivers from the original manufacturer. They no longer are because OHM no longer manufactures them and has none left.

The people who built these drivers for 30 years were not enthusiasts, they were speaker builders.

I believe I understand your point (do it right or don't bother). I even agree. But I think your perspective is skewed (the only source that might possibly be able to do it right is neccessairily an enthusiast charging 3x what OHM charged.)

The costs, and unlikelyhood of being able to recoup them in a sale, are making me believe, indeed, that this would be better handled by a fan of Walsh in particular rather than a fan of music in general.

We'll see.

When the drivers are rebuilt, they will have the same frequency response and impedance. I'm sure restoration involves reconing and therefore the voice coils will be replaced and impedance will match.

Yes. Dale has every part of the driver built from scratch (well, I believe he buys a major manufacturer's spiders). New driver, new cone, new spider, new surrounds.

 

[JerryLove]

If anyone in the vicinity is interested: I've decided to spend my pennies on a differet speaker that has become available rather than invest in replacing the drivers on these.

If anyone would like to buy them off of me, I'll part with the cabinets for about what I paid for them. PM me.

 

[WmAx]

I would have Dale Harder restore them. He knows and loves those drivers. For a specialist product you need a specialist and he is.

There is no doubt that sending the drivers to him is by far your best solution.

I have always had a soft spot for those drivers, and having them restored will be a worthwhile endeavor.

The current Ohm speakers are now where near of the class of the older ones.

There is actually a modern Walsh type driver that is of higher performance and quality than any previous one. It is from Germany, designed and manufactured by German Physiks and they call it the DDD driver. They sell the raw drivers to enthusiasts, but they should only be used in the best application possible, as they are very expensive drivers.

I have always intended to build a perfect 3 way full band omnipolar system using these as the mid-range, from 110Hz-5000Hz, and using an omnipolar tweeter such as the Gallo Acoustics CDT omnipolar tweeter. The only way to aquire this perfect match tweeter, however, is to buy a pair of Gallo speaker that use the tweetr and then scavenge it. Gallo will not(or would not in the past every time I tried) sell this tweeter as an individual part. There are other methods to have an omnipolar tweeter, but the CDT is the ideal one IMO, that will match up both required performance AND cosmetics with a DDD driver system.

-Chris

 

[swspiers]

There is a single Ohm F driver right now on ebay, bidding starts at $299.

I just took possession of my own Ohm F's this morning. They work! Just need some attention to the surrounds and packing in the cabinets.

We're moving to Quantico, VA and will put them through a good work-out once we're unpacked in May.

 

[engtaz]

Do you have pics of the speakers?