Using a Receiver Without Preouts for Connection to an Amp?

[bandphan]

Who's selling those for $50? The retail price is $35.

I was going off memory thats why I linked the actual product

 

[highfigh]

Is it possible or even advised -- through the use of "converter" devices for changing speaker-level outputs to preamp levels -- to utilize a receiver that doesn't have preamp outs for connection to a multichannel power amp?

Aside from an upgrade in raw power output, I'd like to continue using my Onkyo 605 for its processing; it doesn't, however, have preamp outputs for feeding an amp. I know in car audio, there are devices which convert speaker-level connections from, say, a factory head unit for the preamp RCA connections on a power amp, but are there such things for home audio?

I had been given links to products once before which may handle duties such as this, which would essentially connect onto the speaker outputs of the 605 and then convert the signal to preamp level so it could go off to an amp, but the opinions on these devices were sketchy at best; most recommended not using these because they introduce a great deal of noise into the signal and such...

Is it possible to use a receiver without preouts to feed an external power amp?

To be honest, using line level converters for main channel use is more of a Band-Aid than anything else. Those are really made for distributed audio channels, which aren't used for main listening area sound quality or high power output. They may only have a 50-60W rating.

These are easy enough to build but I wouldn't do it on my main channels. OTOH, I don't even use my tone controls but it's because I just don't like the signal going through all kinds of filters and converters, not because I'm a total tweak who thinks the perfect amplifier is a piece of straight wire with gain (it is, but it's not possible).

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, I saw that on their site after I replied to you...

So, these converters come unfinished like this? This isn't something I'd really be into then; the idea of a new AVR is sounding like a better option...

I think you have only two reasonable options.

Buy a new receiver.

Put on your own pre outs. The latter option has the advantage of you learning something and increasing your skill set. It really should not be that difficult if the amps are in a separate section which I would assume they are. In that case you will isolate the preamp to power amp feeds pretty quickly.

The other solutions are likely to lead to poorer results than you have now, or not be cost effective.

Really that is all there is to say on the matter. So the choice is yours.

 

[anamorphic96]

I tend to agree what most of the folks are saying here. Skip the converter idea and just get a new receiver with pre outs and do things the correct way. Don't getto rig your system with a converter system.

Check out accessories4less and pick up a refurbished Onkyo. Most of them have had nothing wrong with them and where returns from customers who didn't like them for one reason or another. They come with a full warranty as well. You could also look at the Marantz line. You could also wait a few months and get the Onkyo 707 when the 708 comes and they start going on sale. You could also get the Yamaha 665 for 499 or less which has pre outs.

As far as external amps. Go with Emotiva. They offer the most bang for the buck. The UPA-3 would be a great amp that would give your Polks all the power they would ever need.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

you can get finished ones, just going to cost more. Building a simple box costs about $10-15 and an hour if you stain it.

I see...still something I just wouldn't do. But thanks for the option!

 

[PearlcorderS701]

To be honest, using line level converters for main channel use is more of a Band-Aid than anything else. Those are really made for distributed audio channels, which aren't used for main listening area sound quality or high power output. They may only have a 50-60W rating.

I understand; thanks highfigh.

I think the best route would be to sell the 605, when I'm ready, and go with either the pre/pro and power amp route, or get a new Onkyo receiver with preouts to feed a new amp.

I was just looking for possible options in which I wouldn't need to get rid of my 605...

As for "building" something myself, this isn't a task I'd really trust myself at, so I'm not really taking that as an option.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I think you have only two reasonable options.

Buy a new receiver.

...or a pre/pro, and then multichannel amp; this option seems like it's winning right now...

Put on your own pre outs. The latter option has the advantage of you learning something and increasing your skill set. It really should not be that difficult if the amps are in a separate section which I would assume they are. In that case you will isolate the preamp to power amp feeds pretty quickly.

Again, not something I'd really trust myself to; so I am thinking going the new AVR or pre/pro route...

The other solutions are likely to lead to poorer results than you have now, or not be cost effective.

So it seems; would it be possible that by introducing these line level converters between my AVR and an amp, it could actually make matters worse by introducing noise in the gain stage and such? I mean, it would almost be more beneficial to "keep" the "90 watts per channel" of power from the AVR instead of introducing a power amp to this equation because of the method required?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I tend to agree what most of the folks are saying here. Skip the converter idea and just get a new receiver with pre outs and do things the correct way. Don't getto rig your system with a converter system.

So it seems...

Check out accessories4less and pick up a refurbished Onkyo. Most of them have had nothing wrong with them and where returns from customers who didn't like them for one reason or another. They come with a full warranty as well. You could also look at the Marantz line. You could also wait a few months and get the Onkyo 707 when the 708 comes and they start going on sale. You could also get the Yamaha 665 for 499 or less which has pre outs.

What if I wanted to go the pre/pro route, instead of a receiver...is there a multichannel processor you would recommend? What about the Onkyo Professional processor? I know that thing's a beast, and it's expensive...is it worth doing that or going with a more reasonably priced AVR with preouts, and then adding the amp?

As far as external amps. Go with Emotiva. They offer the most bang for the buck. The UPA-3 would be a great amp that would give your Polks all the power they would ever need.

I've been hearing great things about these amps...the UPA-3 is the three-channel model, yes? Would you recommend doing this, that is, amping the front stage (three channels) and letting the AVR amp the surrounds, or do you think I should get a five, six or seven-channel amp and let it power all the speakers?

As for Emotiva, what's their story? It seems like this brand arrived on the scene and just exploded like wildfire; when did they come on the market? Did they do something before amps? What has made them so popular, besides price?

I know they have a MASSIVE bang-for-the-buck reputation, but do their power ratings equal what they actually put out, more or less? Are they really as powerful as their numbers suggest?

EDIT: BTW, on Emotiva's site, there doesn't seem to be any "UPA-3" model...did you mean this:

http://emotiva.com/xpa3.shtm

...the "XPA-3"?

 

[anamorphic96]

Don't know the whole story behind Emotive except that they offer nice well designed products for a fair price. The ID model allows this since there in no middle man.

I meant the XPA-3. In your case you would be fine just getting the 3 channel model as the surrounds don't demand as much from an amp. Getting the 707 would do more than what you need and save you some money. That mated up with XPA-3 would be a top notch system.

I still think you should get the matching center for your 12's. Your current center will work ok. But it wont have the same cohesive sound that a matched center will. I know many people have told you that your current center will work fine and they are correct to some extent. But if you really want that cohesive front stage. Get the matched center. Plus its really cheap right now at One Call. Try starting a poll at the Polk forums letting people know how cheap the matched center costs and if they would jump on the deal and I bet they would probably go with getting the matched center.

So there is my suggestion on what you need to get.

1. Receiver/Amp Upgrade or a 007 model from Onkyo would work well to.
2. Matched Center.

All of this could be done for 1500 or less if you look around. You might even try Polk direct on e-bay for a matched center.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Don't know the whole story behind Emotive except that they offer nice well designed products for a fair price. The ID model allows this since there in no middle man.

I see; I was merely curious because this brand has exploded in popularity amongst the home theater channels of late.

I meant the XPA-3.

Okay.

In your case you would be fine just getting the 3 channel model as the surrounds don't demand as much from an amp. Getting the 707 would do more than what you need and save you some money. That mated up with XPA-3 would be a top notch system.

So, a full-tilt multichannel amp wouldn't be necessary?

I still think you should get the matching center for your 12's. Your current center will work ok. But it wont have the same cohesive sound that a matched center will. I know many people have told you that your current center will work fine and they are correct to some extent. But if you really want that cohesive front stage. Get the matched center. Plus its really cheap right now at One Call. Try starting a poll at the Polk forums letting people know how cheap the matched center costs and if they would jump on the deal and I bet they would probably go with getting the matched center.

What's the matching center for the RTi12's?

If I was going to change up my center, I wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of getting these 12's; I was looking for tower mains that would be a sonic match with the CSi30, and I wouldn't have gone down the route of getting Polk's top-of-the-line anything in any series if I had to buy the mains PLUS a new center...

So there is my suggestion on what you need to get.

1. Receiver/Amp Upgrade or a 007 model from Onkyo would work well to.

Would the "007" models provide sufficient D-to-A converters and processing?

2. Matched Center.

Not sure about this yet...still need to hook everything up and listen...

 

[anamorphic96]

I see; I was merely curious because this brand has exploded in popularity amongst the home theater channels of late.



Okay.



So, a full-tilt multichannel amp wouldn't be necessary?



What's the matching center for the RTi12's?

If I was going to change up my center, I wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of getting these 12's; I was looking for tower mains that would be a sonic match with the CSi30, and I wouldn't have gone down the route of getting Polk's top-of-the-line anything in any series if I had to buy the mains PLUS a new center...



Would the "007" models provide sufficient D-to-A converters and processing?



Not sure about this yet...still need to hook everything up and listen...

No a 5 channel amp is not necessary. The surround channels are not that demanding.

The CSi5 is the matching center. It was the one I showed you with the 8's. Here is the link. http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=28512 Since you are concerned about having to much distance between the 12's a larger center would help anchor everything together better. Remember the center channel is one of the most important speakers in a 5.1 system. As it carries a majority of all the sound as well as the main voices. No offense but if you go through are conversations you will see that I tried to talk you out of the 12's and go with the 8's and the CSi5. But you really seemed set on the 12's so I respected that decision. As they are not a bad speaker at all.

Yes the 007 receivers will offer all the processing you need and more. In fact the 1007 may be all the receiver you need. It's amp section is very stout. It equals if not bests the famous 805's amp section.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

No a 5 channel amp is not necessary. The surround channels are not that demanding.

Okay.

The CSi5 is the matching center. It was the one I showed you with the 8's. Here is the link. http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=28512 Since you are concerned about having to much distance between the 12's a larger center would help anchor everything together better. Remember the center channel is one of the most important speakers in a 5.1 system. As it carries a majority of all the sound as well as the main voices. No offense but if you go through are conversations you will see that I tried to talk you out of the 12's and go with the 8's and the CSi5. But you really seemed set on the 12's so I respected that decision. As they are not a bad speaker at all.

I understand, of course, that the center is the hardest-working channel in most of HT because it carries main dialogue and onscreen effects. This is HT 101. And I realize you tried talking me out of the 12's based on the amp I had; but I'm not sure where Polk's centers fit into things...in other words, which center, at the time, were a match to the RTi speakers? WAS IT the CSi5 and that line -- or are those the new Polk centers? If they're the new ones, how do they match better with the RTi12's than my CSi30?

Yes the 007 receivers will offer all the processing you need and more. In fact the 1007 may be all the receiver you need. It's amp section is very stout. It equals if not bests the famous 805's amp section.

Really...even with their 100 watts per channel ratings? Or do I have the numbers wrong for the "007" line?

 

[anamorphic96]

The 1007 is rated at 135 per channel. The 007 series are also rated to drive 4ohm loads on a continuous basis. The also have greater dynamic output. Take a look at the 007 series at Onkyo. The 1007 weighs over 50lbs. Which says a great deal about its amp section. It's alot of receiver for around 1000.

As far as the center goes. You can look it up at Polk and you will see that its the matching center to the 12'. The difference between your CSi30 would be in the tweeter, crossover and overall voicing. Thats why its important to have the same drivers across the front stage as they are voiced the same.

But hey if your not comfortable with going that route with the center and want to use your CSi30 thats fine two. My belief is your so close to having a matched stage why not go the whole way and do it up correctly. You could sell your CSi30 for 80 to 100 then the new center would be 150 to 175. Not bad for a 400 dollar center channel.

Me personally. I would never by another speaker for the front unless I could match it with its proper center.

 

[AVRat]

Where is that animated emoticon beating his head against the wall?

 

[anamorphic96]

Where is that animated emoticon beating his head against the wall?

I here you. But the questions have been answered and their have been no new posts. So who knows.

Audioholics needs more emoticons.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I here you. But the questions have been answered and their have been no new posts. So who knows.

Audioholics needs more emoticons.

For someone who wishes to contstantly make fun of someone -- on this forum and others -- you should learn to spell a tad bit better...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[anamorphic96]

For someone who wishes to contstantly make fun of someone -- on this forum and others -- you should learn to spell a tad bit better...

Just my 2 cents.

Well I'm sure we can find some errors in your posts as well. Besides I wasn't making fun of you. Just pointing out a fact.

 

[AVRat]

In reality, I believe the 12s use the same drivers as the CSi3 and just add the 3-7” drivers for the <120Hz frequencies. Pearl, you really need to set the L/C/Rs up and give them a listen with some good sound panning action to judge for yourself about the timbre match.

This http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR706BLK/Onkyo/Tx-sr706-Thx-100w-X-7ch-Theater-Receiver-Black-Free-Ship-/1.html paired with the Emo XPA-3 will have you powered appropriately.

P.S. A little ribbing is good for the soul.

 

[anamorphic96]

A thick skin when your online is a good thing.

 

[woodsart]

The Russound sure seems like a ripoff. A simple passive L pad for $40? And not even a case? I thought it was a typo ($39.99) at first, because the correct price for something like this is more like $3.99.

The Behringer unit is an active, transformer isolated unit with multiple settings, designed to work optimally in any situation. The DI100 is a far more sophisticated device designed to work with virtually any amplifier output and prevent coloration/noise/ground loops/etc.

Both options are a lot considering the cost of the receiver at subject here.

But the OP could take a few bucks worth of parts and make his own unit easily, that is as 'sophisticated' as the Russound thing.

-Chris

WmAx,

Hey, I am trying to figure out how I can make a separate amp work with my onk TX-8255. I have this rigged with 2 infinity speakers (soon to upgrade), for stereo speakers with my PC. I just added an Emotiva XPA-5 to my 806 and love it.

I know that it doesn't have pre-outs, but you had mentioned that a headphone outlet would work. Could you expand on that or have any other suggestions. I have not had this unit for long. Sorry, I couldn't post link to the 8255.

I do appreciated any help,

Thanks!
Rob