B&W Nautilus vs Sonus Faber Cremonas

[greggp2]

So there should be a pair of B&W 802N's and an HTM1 on the market soon on the Gon... If anyone is interested, let me know. I am going to try and do a local sale first (S. Florida). There's no way I could even imagine trying to pack and ship these 802's and I always worry about the tweeter breaking off on the HTM1 in shipment...

 

[WmAx]

Alex, you are such a trip. Glad to see someone tried to lighten up this thread! I didn't realize I'd start such a debate and I'm lost on half of it, but it's been educational.

I think I'm just going to pick up a pair of Sonus Faber Amati Homage speakers on the secondary market. They are supposed to be one of the best speakers ever made and if I don't like how they sound, I think I'll just get a new hobby... Or maybe just purchase really good headphones.

Just a FYI: the Amati has only moderately better off axis mid-range power response as compared to the 802. This particular SF speaker has very low cabinet vibration levels almost comparable with the 802N.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

Interesting thread. It brings up the question how much bracing is necessary really.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm lost on half of it, but it's been educational.

You got half of that ?!? It's like these guys O.D.'ed on geek pills and somebody chained 'em to a computer. The education is where it's at. Mr. Olive here has certainly shed some light on a few things. I can be mindful of the fact that without Chris here to be part of the discussion ... there would be no discussion and the education would be where?

... so thanks.

Interesting thread. It brings up the question how much bracing is necessary really.

... way more than you used.

 

[AJinFLA]

So there should be a pair of B&W 802N's and an HTM1 on the market soon on the Gon... If anyone is interested, let me know. I am going to try and do a local sale first (S. Florida). There's no way I could even imagine trying to pack and ship these 802's and I always worry about the tweeter breaking off on the HTM1 in shipment...

Should I cancel the trip?

 

[greggp2]

AJ, I'm not sure that even with the EQ that the way the B&W presents sound will change. It seems the 802's have an "in your face" presentation and I honestly don't know that I want to start altering sound with an EQ. I'll keep you posted, but really appreciate the offer..

 

[greggp2]

Msg for Wmax or anyone else who wants to help

Wmax,

In a previous post, you had mentioned adjusting my EQ settings by applying certain filters with a Behringer unit. I had mentioned that my Onkyo 886 has a manual Eq in it. Before I get into trying to integrate an external EQ, can you recommend what adjustments you would make using my internal EQ on my Onkyo.

I have the following options:

Everything is set to 0 right now on the manual mode and I can adjust +/- 6dB on each Channel

Channel
25 Hz
40 Hz
63 Hz
100 Hz
160 Hz
250 Hz
400 Hz
630 Hz
1000 Hz
1600 Hz
2500 Hz
4000 Hz
6300 Hz
10000 Hz
16000 Hz

Thanks...

 

[Warpdrv]

It seems the 802's have an "in your face" presentation

In your face in what part of the spectrum here...

Midrange area...? or schrill and edgy highs...?

Describe what the problem is - without seeing what your room looks like and what treatments you have done to your room its hard to get a grasp on what kind of response you are getting without looking at in room charts and sweeps. You stated you have a room with marble floors - and not really any treatments. To me that is half of your problem, and just throwing money at new speakers will never fix the underlying issues here.

It can be that you have learned to like european type sound with rolled off highs as a result of your room being to bright. - that is one way to address a problem.

Until I started fixing problems with my room - I always had an issue with "bright" speakers....

How about trying to adjust your EQ down on those freq ranges that are bothering you the most and post back some of your results as well...

 

[Alex2507]

Before I get into trying to integrate an external EQ, can you recommend what adjustments you would make using my internal EQ on my Onkyo.

I would think the EQ adjustments would be room specific and you would cut peaks that you found via some type of measurements taken at the listening position ... or am I oversimplifying this?

 

[AJinFLA]

Wmax,

In a previous post, you had mentioned adjusting my EQ settings by applying certain filters with a Behringer unit. I had mentioned that my Onkyo 886 has a manual Eq in it. Before I get into trying to integrate an external EQ, can you recommend what adjustments you would make using my internal EQ on my Onkyo.

I have the following options:

Everything is set to 0 right now on the manual mode and I can adjust +/- 6dB on each Channel

Channel
25 Hz
40 Hz
63 Hz
100 Hz
160 Hz
250 Hz
400 Hz
630 Hz
1000 Hz
1600 Hz
2500 Hz
4000 Hz
6300 Hz
10000 Hz
16000 Hz

Thanks...

Try reducing 4000hz in incremental steps (-1db?) and listen each step

 

[Warpdrv]

Gregg, you really should take AJinFLA up on his offer, he can run some room sweeps with REW in your room and get a grasp on some of your problem areas that you need to focus on.

Very nice of you AJ btw

 

[greggp2]

AJ, thanks... I will try your recommendation. The issue I am having is that my ears are literally ringing after about 30 minutes of listening. It isn't that the highs seem to high, although I do have to adjust the bass down because the speakers tend to be a bit boomy...

My room is fairly large. About 20L x 15W x 15H. And the 15W opens into the kitchen. The placement of the speakers is also pretty close to the side walls and counter top in my kitchen due to the fact that there are two doors in between my TV and buffet table that holds all my gear.

I have a really large area rug in the room 12x14 and draperies on the windows on the side and back of the room.

I spoke to a B&W dealer today and he told me the issue is probably my Amp? He said my Outlaw is not a musical amp and I should look to use a Pass Labs Amp?

I'm doubting this is the issue, because my Arcam receiver, Emotiva Amp and now my Outlaw are all giving me the same issues.

I'm sure it's a combo between the speakers and the room. In terms of the room, there's no more treatments going in... The GF and even I don't want to ruin the aesthetics of the room....

 

[jamie2112]

Not a musical amp???? The dealer has no buisness being in the audio sales industry....

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Now that's funny.

I spoke to a B&W dealer today and he told me the issue is probably my Amp? He said my Outlaw is not a musical amp and I should look to use a Pass Labs Amp?
....

 

[GO-NAD!]

Not a musical amp???? The dealer has no buisness being in the audio sales industry....

Sounds like a classic snake oil salesman to me. But then, if he's a B&W dealer and there is a complaint about B&W speakers, he has to blame something else, doesn't he?

 

[Warpdrv]

I'm sure it's a combo between the speakers and the room. In terms of the room, there's no more treatments going in... The GF and even I don't want to ruin the aesthetics of the room....

So are you saying there is no possible way of adding some room treatments without keeping some great looking aesthetics.

http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/decorative-wall-panels-decorative-wall-panel-gallery.aspx amongst others like GIK and Aurelex

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I spoke to a B&W dealer today and he told me the issue is probably my Amp? He said my Outlaw is not a musical amp and I should look to use a Pass Labs Amp?

That's funny.

When I auditioned the 802D at my local dealer, they said that the 200WPC Classe amps were NOT powerful enough!

I'm sure the Outlaw 7700 amp is musical enough.

 

[TjMV3]

Outlaw amps are musical amps.

 

[AJinFLA]

AJ, thanks... I will try your recommendation. The issue I am having is that my ears are literally ringing after about 30 minutes of listening. It isn't that the highs seem to high, although I do have to adjust the bass down because the speakers tend to be a bit boomy...

My room is fairly large. About 20L x 15W x 15H. And the 15W opens into the kitchen. The placement of the speakers is also pretty close to the side walls and counter top in my kitchen due to the fact that there are two doors in between my TV and buffet table that holds all my gear.

I have a really large area rug in the room 12x14 and draperies on the windows on the side and back of the room.

Just go gently with the EQ and see if a small reduction at 4k works for you. It's possible more is needed elsewhere, but without measurements, you're flying blind, so you will just have to rely on you ears for now. My offer still stands if you are interested. Do you have a pic of the setup? Seems like you have a bit of asymmetry, but otherwise, a quite normally reverberant room.

I spoke to a B&W dealer today and he told me the issue is probably my Amp? He said my Outlaw is not a musical amp and I should look to use a Pass Labs Amp?

. Unfortunately, audio is full of this type of feeble minded/used car sales BS. You should ask him to define the exact electrical properties (an amplifier is an electrical device with a transfer function) that define "musical". That would be worth a laugh .
He understands that some (highly susceptible) minds are affected by audio jewelry, so you can't blame him for trying

I'm doubting this is the issue, because my Arcam receiver, Emotiva Amp and now my Outlaw are all giving me the same issues. I'm sure it's a combo between the speakers and the room. In terms of the room, there's no more treatments going in... The GF and even I don't want to ruin the aesthetics of the room....

Then it seems that like me, you're stricken with something called 'common sense', a condition many audiophiles are immune to . This is exactly correct..and unlike "musicality" which exists only in the overactive imagination of the technically illiterate...the speaker/room combo is measurable, real, demonstrable...and correctable. The "demonstrable" part is up to you, mid-April.

cheers,

AJ

 

[AJinFLA]

Not a musical amp????

Yeah. When you try to play West Side Story on DVD, no sound will come out of the amp