Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is based on the OPPO BDP-83.

S

Snakeoil

Banned


The ayre has a swapped out power supply and we all know what kind of "difference" that will make and then they basically stuff in a QB-9 where the oppo's DAC/analog section was.

Then again one just has to look at ayre's past source units to realize it is all snake oil.

Ayre CX-7eMP



 
S

Snakeoil

Banned
They change nothing with the video section and when used with a HDMI connection it will obviously be 100% identical to the oppo.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I'm far less concerned or amazed about this one than I am Lexicon. Lexicon is owned by Harman, a large audio conglomerate. I believe that such a company can afford to shell out the money for R&D to come up with their own Blu-ray player.

Would I spend $10000 for an upgraded Oppo, absolutely not. However, at least they changed something other than the case. They upgraded the analog audio output section and put a powersupply inside it that won't likely fail. It's still underhanded, but at least it's not as pathetic of a display as the Lexicon BD-30.
 
Shock

Shock

Audioholic General
I dunno 10000 bucks for a PSU and slightly improved analog outputs. I would judge this as worse due to the price alone.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I'm not sure I follow you on the Ayre CX-7eMP. The transport looks cheasy as hell, but the boards look to be custom. I'm by no means saying it's worth it, but they aren't just dropping players inside a new chassis without any changes. Still, I'd much rather buy a high end CDP from Pioneer. Those things are built like tanks.
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
Here's a full list of mods they make, Ayre is very forthcoming about the details:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17402589#post17402589

Very limited buying market of course, much smaller than Lexicon.
I read through Charles Hanson's comments on his upgrades a few days ago. He's got a logical explanation as to why they are buying stock Oppos rather than kits from BBK and a detailed list of upgrades and parts that are swapped out with upgraded counterparts of similar value. In total, I think there are 500 parts involved that are retrofited by hand. That's alot of labor and they have a very limited run (market). As he says, "the price is what it is". I don't have a problem with this. I wouldn't drop dime on it even if I could afford it. I'd probably Modwright my SE...just not an aesthetics kind of guy.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
those big thru-hole caps on the audio board look interesting. I'd love to get my hand on a unit to see if they are beneficial or not. Some people may not realize that part quality means nothing if the layout and placement of parts causes their own issues.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
those big thru-hole caps on the audio board look interesting. I'd love to get my hand on a unit to see if they are beneficial or not. Some people may not realize that part quality means nothing if the layout and placement of parts causes their own issues.
I'd love to see how a Modwright-Oppo unit performs. Just don't want to pay to have mine modded.

(yeah, I'm cheap)
 
Shock

Shock

Audioholic General
Here's a full list of mods they make, Ayre is very forthcoming about the details:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17402589#post17402589

Very limited buying market of course, much smaller than Lexicon.
Yeah I read that post as well, honestly those improvements do not seem very impressive.

Unless they add a feature that does your laxes and your laundry I can't see where they're getting their dollar figure from. This is a buyers market, and if you want to actually sell products you need to make them a good value. Or have some very talented people behind your marketing.
 
R

randyb

Full Audioholic
There is also the question of whether any of the "upgrades" actually add any audio/video improvement. I am thinking that Charles Hansen is pretty tight with John Curl who thinks all kinds of tweaks work. He posts regularly over at the DIY web site and posts in the do cables make a difference thread. If you get bored, it makes for some "fun" reading.
 
Last edited:
S

Snakeoil

Banned
There is also the question of whether any of the "upgrades" actually add any audio/video improvement. I am thinking that Charles Hansen is pretty tight with John Curl who thinks all kinds of tweaks work. He posts regularly over at the DIY web site and posts in the do cables make a difference thread. If you get bored, it makes for some "fun" reading.
Exactly, none of this has been tested and like every other MOD company they always say their MOD's are the best.

Seth=L said:
Would I spend $10000 for an upgraded Oppo, absolutely not. However, at least they changed something other than the case. They upgraded the analog audio output section and put a powersupply inside it that won't likely fail. It's still underhanded, but at least it's not as pathetic of a display as the Lexicon BD-30.
Shock said:
I dunno 10000 bucks for a PSU and slightly improved analog outputs. I would judge this as worse due to the price alone.
jvgillow said:
Here's a full list of mods they make, Ayre is very forthcoming about the details:
Shock said:
Yeah I read that post as well, honestly those improvements do not seem very impressive.
Until the player is tested and changes are 100% subjective so you can't say they are better or an improvement.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Look Snakeoil, I wouldn't go as far to say that the several thousand dollar Denon Blu-ray is any better than the Oppo either, but it appears as though that player has a lot of Denon R&D in it. It's highly propable that the Denon isn't all Denon either. The majority of the market is involved in borrowing technology, parts, and platforms from other manufacturers.

Lexicon's BD-30 just clearly represents the absolute worst possible way to do this, they didn't change a thing from any electrical aspect, no improvement is even theoritically possible in terms of performance. Will the transport noise be a bit quieter due to a denser cabinet, probably, but that's about it and that doesn't take much to figure out in the grand scheme of things.

It seems this Lexicon fiasco has paved the way to start numerous threads about rebadging this and that. Yes, it happens. I don't believe it's necessary to start a thread for every known duplicator of another's technology, platform, or entire assembly. At this rate half the first page of threads will be about some extravagant rebadging. We've seen it before time and time again. The wiser of us pick up on it and these companies get hurt sometimes, or even shut down entirely.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them. I still think it's incredible sour to take an excellent platform, tweak it a little (without any proof the tweak provides a noticeable difference), and sell it for a unreasonable markup. But this isn't something that just started happening yesterday. Many of these guys have been smart about it though, and I have to give them marks for playing it smart. I give Lexicon two thumbs down for not being creative and being ignorant the possibility that exposing it would leave them looking like absolute fools to anyone that isn't blind or being paid to say otherwise.
 
S

Snakeoil

Banned
I do not have a problem with the high end rebadging either but I do have a problem when their rebadged products are "reviewed" and all the review can talk about is how much better it is "based on money" over the average product. Reviewing high end gear has always been that way and it is 100% wrong. I also have a problem when a high end company does not divulge what their product is based on as well since they are outright lying about it. Like mcinotsh and the new MVP881.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I do not have a problem with the high end rebadging either but I do have a problem when their rebadged products are "reviewed" and all the review can talk about is how much better it is "based on money" over the average product. Reviewing high end gear has always been that way and it is 100% wrong. I also have a problem when a high end company does not divulge what their product is based on as well since they are outright lying about it. Like mcinotsh and the new MVP881.
Honestly though, you are preaching to the choir, for the most part we all know that the majority of high end home audio is a crock.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
The Ayre product, like their other players, also appears to have left off the requisite safety warnings that caution the end user that there are dangerous voltages contained within as well as a Class 1 laser. Further, there is no mention that their DX-5 has passed the requisite FCC testing for a Class B device under Part 15. You'll find these warnings and/or the appropriate markings on the OPPO product as well as the first couple of pages of their manual. Since the DX-5 has had what appears to be somewhat extensive reworking, how is it that they are choosing to not pay the fee to have the unit tested and comply with US regulations? It's not onerous like the licensing fees they'd have to spend were they to develop a product from the ground up. Yes? Bear in mind that Behringer not too long ago looked to skirt this issue and wound up paying $1,000,000 in fines for all the products they brought into this country and never tested.
 
R

randyb

Full Audioholic
The Ayre product, like their other players, also appears to have left off the requisite safety warnings that caution the end user that there are dangerous voltages contained within as well as a Class 1 laser. Further, there is no mention that their DX-5 has passed the requisite FCC testing for a Class B device under Part 15. You'll find these warnings and/or the appropriate markings on the OPPO product as well as the first couple of pages of their manual. Since the DX-5 has had what appears to be somewhat extensive reworking, how is it that they are choosing to not pay the fee to have the unit tested and comply with US regulations? It's not onerous like the licensing fees they'd have to spend were they to develop a product from the ground up. Yes? Bear in mind that Behringer not too long ago looked to skirt this issue and wound up paying $1,000,000 in fines for all the products they brought into this country and never tested.
Hey, Chu, I didn't know about the Behringer thing. Do you have a link or article that describes what happened?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Tons of places, Randy. Run a search using the terms 'Behringer FCC'. The FCC is pretty tough when they sink their hooks into you. You'll also be able to find listings at the FCC website too. So, in the future, when you're looking at things like DAC's, amps with switching power supplies, CD or any video players, take a look at the back of the units as well as the manuals. If they didn't say it, either they're sloppy or they just didn't do it. You'll find quite a few companies that make Class D amps don't comply. You can only get lucky for so long.
 
R

randyb

Full Audioholic
Tons of places, Randy. Run a search using the terms 'Behringer FCC'. The FCC is pretty tough when they sink their hooks into you. You'll also be able to find listings at the FCC website too. So, in the future, when you're looking at things like DAC's, amps with switching power supplies, CD or any video players, take a look at the back of the units as well as the manuals. If they didn't say it, either they're sloppy or they just didn't do it. You'll find quite a few companies that make Class D amps don't comply. You can only get lucky for so long.
Interesting.
 

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