So, it seems that unions will be exempt from the health tax.

[NicolasKL]

I've ignored most of your usual verbal diarrhea in order to cut to your most telling statement.

Well then, they should have to pay taxes on it like everyone else, particularly if they are worth more than other workers.

Simple, no?

Your personal attacks demonstrate the strength of your argument. Where are you getting that they're worth more than other workers? Their total compensation isn't greater than other workers (it's less, from what I've seen), it's just that more of their total compensation is tied up in benefits, which could lead to greater taxation than other workers. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?

 

[njedpx3]

I just shake my head and laugh.

Reminds me of the joke about the elephant.

There was circus and they wanted make the elephant to shake his head sideways.

Many came and tried and know one could do it.

The a man came and the elephant shook his head from side to side. He would tell no one how he did it.

Later the cicus wanted the elephant to nod his head up and down. This was even harder fro an elephant to do. Again no one could teach the elpant to do it. Ins desperation, they call the man who had madethe elephant to shake his head sideways.

The man came and said "Do you remember me I am the one who hit you in the nuts" and the elephant nodded his head up and down. "Do you want me to hit you in the nuts again?" and the elephant shook his head side-to-side

Life is just too short to worry about the little things

Peace and Serenity,

Forest Man


P.S. - sorry about the poor joke

 

[Ares]

Reminds me of the joke about the elephant.

There was circus and they wanted make the elephant to shake his head sideways.

Many came and tried and know one could do it.

The a man came and the elephant shook his head from side to side. He would tell no one how he did it.

Later the cicus wanted the elephant to nod his head up and down. This was even harder fro an elephant to do. Again no one could teach the elpant to do it. Ins desperation, they call the man who had madethe elephant to shake his head sideways.

The man came and said "Do you remember me I am the one who hit you in the nuts" and the elephant nodded his head up and down. "Do you want me to hit you in the nuts again?" and the elephant shook his head side-to-side

Life is just too short to worry about the little things

Peace and Serenity,

Forest Man


P.S. - sorry about the poor joke

Forest nice joke I found it funny.

 

[markw]

Trouble understanding what?

Your personal attacks demonstrate the strength of your argument. Where are you getting that they're worth more than other workers? Their total compensation isn't greater than other workers (it's less, from what I've seen), it's just that more of their total compensation is tied up in benefits, which could lead to greater taxation than other workers. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?

They are not worth more than other workers. Buy you, OTOH, by wanting to exempt them from paying taxes that everyone else has to pay, imply that they are.

As for greater taxation for other workers, well, that's exactly what's about to happen if we let it.

You can make all the excuses you want but you still seem to favor treating them like a privileged class.

Why is that?

Remember, even George Meany, the grandfather of unions in this country was against the unionizaton of civil workers because their jobs were not tied to the economic ups and downs and therefore immune from the general puvlic's suffering. IOW, he knew that when times got hard everyone else would have to suffer while they were immune because they would just raise taxes.

This act just further isolates them from the economy and is yet another step towards creating a priveledged class and extending it to all unions as well.

If we gotta pay them taxes, so should everyone. si ple, eh?

 

[Ares]

Found this article interesting.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/healthquest/what-is-cadillac-health-insurance

 

[Jed M]

Found this article interesting.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/healthquest/what-is-cadillac-health-insurance

Great article. Really explains how this bill goes after the middle class, yet uses the word "Cadillac" to spin it like they are going after the wealthy. Utter disgrace. The middle class is evaporating in this country because they now have to support the poor while at the same time having to bailout the rich. The middle class can't sustain this kind of abuse. It used to be the middle class took care of themselves, the rich took care of the poor, and we had an enormous middle class that made us such a powerhouse economically. Now the way its done is to just screw the middle class by using tricky words like "death tax" and "Cadillac insurance" so the big boys can have one more giant party and the poor can get a few more handouts as we circle our way down the drain.

We need to quit buying into the corporate media's message that we are throwing away our votes by voting for 3rd parties.

 

[Tomorrow]

Found this article interesting.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/healthquest/what-is-cadillac-health-insurance

My wife is a secretary (and I'm retired). She makes much less than the average teachers salary noted above...but she has a "cadillac" health plan (BlueCross/BlueShield...which is essentially a non-profit insurer). If this bill passes, we're done for!

 

[Ares]

I'm a union guy have been for years, I know a lot of you are aware I lost my job in waste management but I am still part of the union as long as I pay my dues every month. Now this issue is both a relief and a problem at the same time for me. My wife is a part of a union as well, different local than myself so she has healthcare coverage from her union, but because she is a part timer she will get screwed with this bill passing. Even though she is a union member she does not have the same protections as a full timer.

 

[highfigh]

Great article. Really explains how this bill goes after the middle class, yet uses the word "Cadillac" to spin it like they are going after the wealthy. Utter disgrace. The middle class is evaporating in this country because they now have to support the poor while at the same time having to bailout the rich. The middle class can't sustain this kind of abuse. It used to be the middle class took care of themselves, the rich took care of the poor, and we had an enormous middle class that made us such a powerhouse economically. Now the way its done is to just screw the middle class by using tricky words like "death tax" and "Cadillac insurance" so the big boys can have one more giant party and the poor can get a few more handouts as we circle our way down the drain.

We need to quit buying into the corporate media's message that we are throwing away our votes by voting for 3rd parties.

I think this process has been called 'trickle up poverty'.

I find it odd that Congress calles the expensive health care plans 'Cadillac' policies, when I know people who are clearly not wealthy and are required by the insurance companies to pay the incredibly high premiums. I find it hard to believe someone would pay excessive premiums by choice and to tax them on this is disgusting. If someone is smart, they'll go for a somewhat higher deductible, not zero. Congress looks at the wealthy like they're a completely different class of people but if the members of Congress were examined, they're usually in the same class. The difference is that they do favors for each other using other peoples' money. Because they're using OPM, they feel nothing when they increase spending to unimaginable heights. They pay nothing for their health care and pay no income tax, therefore, they can have the Cadillac health care plans and it won't affect them at all. Democrats can count on the unions for their vote in almost 100% of elections and for this favor, they may end up receiving preferential treatment in the health care tax issue. If anyone is taxed for this, everyone should be, or nobody. Government has degraded to buying people's votes using gifts and favors. This needs to end.

 

[highfigh]

I'm a union guy have been for years, I know a lot of you are aware I lost my job in waste management but I am still part of the union as long as I pay my dues every month. Now this issue is both a relief and a problem at the same time for me. My wife is a part of a union as well, different local than myself so she has healthcare coverage from her union, but because she is a part timer she will get screwed with this bill passing. Even though she is a union member she does not have the same protections as a full timer.

She's a part-timer and still has benefits. Try to get that without being in a union. Many employers are cutting peoples' hours back or hiring only part time workers specifically because the benefits cost so much and it's not often that benefits are paid to part-timers. He!!- it's hard to get a really good benefits package for a full-timer in a relatively low paying position.

What do you get by paying your dues? Continued membership to maintain some form of seniority in the union or do they help you find a job?

I have only been directly affected by union membership twice- once was when my dad was a member of one and they went on strike and the other was when I worked a summer job at a lumber yard and the Teamsters walked. My dad got "bread wages" only if he picketed and when the Teamsters went on strike, I couldn't go to work because it was a "union yard". Neither union was going to bat for workers who were paid badly or were abused by the companies- they were strong-arming the companies to get more money and benefits and at the same time, making the company and non-union workers pay for it.

I'm not a fan of unions- they're one of the biggest reasons manufacturing has been sent off-shore. I used to argue with my dad's co-workers when they would biatch about how much things cost and I'd point out that they should read their "Buy American" bumper sticker and think about what it really means. I've seen more of these stickers on foreign cars and trucks pulling out of union manufacturing plants than I can count.

Good luck with your job search.

 

[Ares]

She's a part-timer and still has benefits. Try to get that without being in a union. Many employers are cutting peoples' hours back or hiring only part time workers specifically because the benefits cost so much and it's not often that benefits are paid to part-timers. He!!- it's hard to get a really good benefits package for a full-timer in a relatively low paying position.

What do you get by paying your dues? Continued membership to maintain some form of seniority in the union or do they help you find a job?

I have only been directly affected by union membership twice- once was when my dad was a member of one and they went on strike and the other was when I worked a summer job at a lumber yard and the Teamsters walked. My dad got "bread wages" only if he picketed and when the Teamsters went on strike, I couldn't go to work because it was a "union yard". Neither union was going to bat for workers who were paid badly or were abused by the companies- they were strong-arming the companies to get more money and benefits and at the same time, making the company and non-union workers pay for it.

I'm not a fan of unions- they're one of the biggest reasons manufacturing has been sent off-shore. I used to argue with my dad's co-workers when they would biatch about how much things cost and I'd point out that they should read their "Buy American" bumper sticker and think about what it really means. I've seen more of these stickers on foreign cars and trucks pulling out of union manufacturing plants than I can count.

Good luck with your job search.

I pay union dues to keep the insurance for myself and my daughter because the union has insurance through Blue Cross-Blue Shield. My wife has her own but because she is a part timer it's a ratio 60/40, and no drug coverage either so it's not much of a sweetheart deal for her but it's better than nothing.

 

[highfigh]

I pay union dues to keep the insurance for myself and my daughter because the union has insurance through Blue Cross-Blue Shield. My wife has her own but because she is a part timer it's a ratio 60/40, and no drug coverage either so it's not much of a sweetheart deal for her but it's better than nothing.

So, the union plan won't cover the whole family? Is it much less than a separate plan, if the union dues are subtracted? When I looked a few years ago, I could get BCBS coverage with $5K annual deductible for less than $300/mo and I was 49 at the time. I don't have any dependents but without pre-existing conditions and since I'm a non-smoker, I thought that was a fair price. It would cover major problems with the usual 100% coverage for physicals and some other things and since I don't have ongoing health issues, it's not that terrible. I have a friend whose wife decided that he should pay for the insurance on a plan that was separate from the one she could get from her employer at the time. She also insisted on zero deductible, regardless of whether they would have saved money with a higher one, figuring in all of the various conditions they have. She has Crohn's Disease and they all have respiratory issues which, according to him, could be better if she would clean the house better. Aside from the fact that they need to work together better, he's now paying over $30K/year for health insurance with $5K/person deductible/year and Congress looks at this as if they're raking in more money than they can spend.

If that's a Cadillac plan, it must have been a Cimarron, an early '80s Seville or one of the models with the 4/6/8 cylinder control (which didn't work, ever).

 

[Ares]

My plan would cover the whole family if the wife would stop the whole I want to be independent kick,but that is a whole other story. What I pay through the union is alot cheaper than if I got a stand alone plan for my daughter and myself.

 

[markw]

Hmmmmm...

All I can say is.... Come on Massachusetts

Ya think they heard us??? Actually, from the recent upsets in Obama's endorsed candidates lately, it looks like it's more than just us grumbling.

If some incumbents have a brain in their head they would listen and learn from thes eevents but seeing how they are planning to use every trick in the book to try to ram this down our throats, I kinda doubt it.

I'm watching BBC World News right now and even they are commenting on how surprisingly quickly the pendulum has swung away from the "change you can believe in" in this country.

At this rate, I gotta wonder what November will bring...

 

[bandphan]

What I thought was interesting, Scott Rasmussen exit polls showed 22% of registered democrats voted Brown

 

[highfigh]

My plan would cover the whole family if the wife would stop the whole I want to be independent kick,but that is a whole other story. What I pay through the union is alot cheaper than if I got a stand alone plan for my daughter and myself.

So, this is really "I want to be independent, unless I need your for something"? Ever ask her just how independent she wants to be?

Note: only ask this if you either know the answer or aren't worried about what she'll say. I can't think of a single woman who could be asked this question without it backfiring.

 

[highfigh]

Ya think they heard us??? Actually, from the recent upsets in Obama's endorsed candidates lately, it looks like it's more than just us grumbling.

If some incumbents have a brain in their head they would listen and learn from thes eevents but seeing how they are planning to use every trick in the book to try to ram this down our throats, I kinda doubt it.

I'm watching BBC World News right now and even they are commenting on how surprisingly quickly the pendulum has swung away from the "change you can believe in" in this country.

At this rate, I gotta wonder what November will bring...

Third election so far, won by someone who was considered unlikely to carry it out. The wind's-a-changin', folks. Also, without the 60%-40% margin, it's no longer immune to filibuster.

Woo-Hoo!