Recommend a small sub design?

[WmAx]

What kind of SQ can one expect with a build like this?

I was actually looking into this driver for a sealed design, but I don't know enough about the simulation/modeling programs yet to include some low end EQ (considering the OAudio 500W amp actually) and get an idea what it can do.

In my case, overall ouput is not the goal....instead compact size and SQ are priorities. Extension would only need to be into the high 20's-low 30's, since it'd be soley for music.

But maybe that isn't the ideal driver for small sealed applications.

Well, it will be relatively good SQ. It's more SPL oriented sub than a SQ one, to be honest. It's about $185 plus shipping. If you want higher SQ, get the JL 8W7. It's $250 plus shipping. It has a superior motor, and will still produce higher SPL as well, despite it being an '8'. This '8' will produce more clean SPL than most high quality conventional 12" subs. In sealed, these drivers can give you dynamic clean output to about 35Hz. Under this, and you start to compromise overall output capability to gain lower extension. The 0 Audio 500 is perfect for both drivers.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

The JL Audio 10W1v2 in a 1.8ft^3 (net) vented enclosure would work quite well for your application while keeping the budget low.

External dimensions on a suitable enclosure would be 15.5" W x 17" D x 19" H. This would accommodate for vent displacement woofer & bracing displacement as well. Gross enclosure volume is just under 2.2ft^3

The vent would be a 1" slot 14" wide and 33.25" long tuning to 24hz. +/-3db output from 25hz-84hz with anechoic SPL's from 105db-108db with 250 watts rms. Use a 2nd order or higher infrasonic filter at 20hz. Peak vent velocities are just a touch over 17m/s.

Quite good performance for under $300 and in a relatively small enclosure.

If that is too large, I will see what else can be found.

 

[alphaiii]

Chris, Annunaki - Appreciate your input.

Seems jliedeka and I have similar musical tastes. I listen to alot of metal too, and much of it has rapid double bass.

Essential I'm looking for a compact sub for my 2.1 PC audio system that can cleanly play that double bass. I don't need alot of output, and for my case extension really only needs to be -3db in the mid 30's I'd say. The small amp I use has a built in 100Hz LP, so that sub would need to play up to that crossover point.

I'm currently using an Aperion S8-APR in this setup, and it has plenty of output for my townhome living situation. More would only anger the neighbors. It's a very compact sub - 11" cube enclosure (w/o feet, grill, amp). It's a nice little sub, but while punchy, it still isn't articulate enough for my demands.

So I'm looking for something that gives me improved SQ over the Aperion but in a similar sized enclosure - basically as small as I can go . There are/will be a few small sealed 10" commercial options (Martin Logan Dynamo and Emotiva Ultra 10 come to mind) that can be had for <$400 so I'm really trying to stay in the less than that range for the driver/amp combo. The only reason I considered the HiVi within budget is b/c I've seen it on sale at PE for around $130 before.

I know - I'm asking for alot here. But I figured it was worth looking into the DIY realm to see if I could make it happen.

 

[jliedeka]

I think I'm leaning toward a sealed box. I'd prefer simpler construction and not having to mess around with a rumble filter.

By the way, how would you implement an infrasonic filter? External EQ? I'd hate to put a passive network in the signal path because that would negate part of the advantage of an active sub.

I'm really going for something simple that uses a plate amp for this build. I'm leaning toward the O-Audio 300W BASH and the Dayton RSS265HF-4 driver in a 60ish liter box. Does anyone want to talk me out of that? I'm still in the early planning stages since I have 5 or 7 passive speakers to finish first.

Jim

 

[WmAx]

I think I'm leaning toward a sealed box. I'd prefer simpler construction and not having to mess around with a rumble filter.

By the way, how would you implement an infrasonic filter? External EQ? I'd hate to put a passive network in the signal path because that would negate part of the advantage of an active sub.

I'm really going for something simple that uses a plate amp for this build. I'm leaning toward the O-Audio 300W BASH and the Dayton RSS265HF-4 driver in a 60ish liter box. Does anyone want to talk me out of that? I'm still in the early planning stages since I have 5 or 7 passive speakers to finish first.

Jim

I recommend 500 watt O audio. But the Dayton driver is the best choice for your budget. It will give precision, high fidelity bass at low to moderate SPL range in a sealed small cabinet. The Dayton RS driver has a motor comparable to that on the JL Audio W6v2, so rest assured it will perform superbly for your application. The O audio 500 amp has the power needed to get the extension you want plus it has the required filter controls/eQ.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Chris, Annunaki - Appreciate your input.

Seems jliedeka and I have similar musical tastes. I listen to alot of metal too, and much of it has rapid double bass.

Essential I'm looking for a compact sub for my 2.1 PC audio system that can cleanly play that double bass. I don't need alot of output, and for my case extension really only needs to be -3db in the mid 30's I'd say. The small amp I use has a built in 100Hz LP, so that sub would need to play up to that crossover point.

I'm currently using an Aperion S8-APR in this setup, and it has plenty of output for my townhome living situation. More would only anger the neighbors. It's a very compact sub - 11" cube enclosure (w/o feet, grill, amp). It's a nice little sub, but while punchy, it still isn't articulate enough for my demands.

So I'm looking for something that gives me improved SQ over the Aperion but in a similar sized enclosure - basically as small as I can go . There are/will be a few small sealed 10" commercial options (Martin Logan Dynamo and Emotiva Ultra 10 come to mind) that can be had for <$400 so I'm really trying to stay in the less than that range for the driver/amp combo. The only reason I considered the HiVi within budget is b/c I've seen it on sale at PE for around $130 before.

I know - I'm asking for alot here. But I figured it was worth looking into the DIY realm to see if I could make it happen.

I recommend the same driver and amp to you (O audio 500 and Dayton RS reference sub) for your application. From low to moderate SPL, it will give perfect, low distortion bass, far exceeding your present sub. The HiVI Sp10 will also give hi fi bass to moderate SPL, far exceeding your present sub. Likely, the SP10 will go to a bit higher SPL than the Dayton RS 12" driver, and is probably more suited to your specific application, especially wanting to keep the cabinet very small.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

I think I'm leaning toward a sealed box. I'd prefer simpler construction and not having to mess around with a rumble filter.

By the way, how would you implement an infrasonic filter? External EQ? I'd hate to put a passive network in the signal path because that would negate part of the advantage of an active sub.

I'm really going for something simple that uses a plate amp for this build. I'm leaning toward the O-Audio 300W BASH and the Dayton RSS265HF-4 driver in a 60ish liter box. Does anyone want to talk me out of that? I'm still in the early planning stages since I have 5 or 7 passive speakers to finish first.

Jim

If you are wishing to keep it sealed, I would go for the RSS315HF-4. One can do this in a 2.1ft^3 (net) enclosure and it will yield a slightly lower F3 at 35.5hz as opposed to 36.5hz with the RSS265HF-4 (with the 10" in a .97ft^3 enclosure .707Qtc). The F3 on the 12" however is +3db higher in output (anechoic) which would allow for perceived "deeper" bass. The -6db point on the 12" is 29hz anechoic.

Doing the 10" in such a large enclosure would leave your bass sounding a tad dry as the Qtc. at that enclosure volume is just .597. Essentially it is over-damped. It would lower the F3 to 33hz however.

As for the infrasonic filter, simply get the FMOD 20hz highpass unit. I have used this multiple times with great results. Parametric EQ can be skipped with the sealed choices I suppose.

I would suggest the FMOD with any of these options to limit potential over excursion at low frequencies.

 

[jliedeka]

The 315 is on sale right now. I should pick one up and wait for the 500W BASH to be back in stock.

J

 

[annunaki]

Jim I love the sig line!

315 is a good option whether you use the 300 or the 500. Obviously the 500 gives a bit more spl and headroom capability.

 

[jliedeka]

The thing is, the sub is for my bedroom and won't have to play very loud. I'm using a NAD receiver that puts out 70wpc in stereo and I doubt I've used half of its power. I'm betting the 10" with a 300W amp would give me plenty of power but with the 315 on sale, I could get the 500W and stay within budget.

I think I will go for a higher Q (7.07) rather than an over-damped alignment. The 12" would work well in 3 cu ft according to WinISD.

Jim

 

[annunaki]

The thing is, the sub is for my bedroom and won't have to play very loud. I'm using a NAD receiver that puts out 70wpc in stereo and I doubt I've used half of its power. I'm betting the 10" with a 300W amp would give me plenty of power but with the 315 on sale, I could get the 500W and stay within budget.

I think I will go for a higher Q (7.07) rather than an over-damped alignment. The 12" would work well in 3 cu ft according to WinISD.

Jim

The 12" will work better in a little larger enclosure, but still plenty acceptable in the enclosure I suggested.

Either way I think you will be satisfied.

 

[Shock]

I would go with something along the lines of this

Wait what?

ohhhhh you mean.....nevermind.

 

[WmAx]

Note: The O Audio has a parametric EQ, but it only has negative dB settings, no positive/boost capabilities. So it can not be used to extend the response of the subs in small sealed cabinets. I had forgotten this important detail. To get desired extension in a small sealed cabinet, you need to have a parametric EQ available. If anyone is interested in low priced solutions, let me know and I will search for some examples.

-Chris

 

[alphaiii]

Note: The O Audio has a parametric EQ, but it only has negative dB settings, no positive/boost capabilities. So it can not be used to extend the response of the subs in small sealed cabinets. I had forgotten this important detail. To get desired extension in a small sealed cabinet, you need to have a parametric EQ available. If anyone is interested in low priced solutions, let me know and I will search for some examples.

-Chris

Glad you pointed that out. I didn't realize that at all.

Would the Elemental Designs eQ.2 work as an inexpensive option? It has 2-band eq, with -15db cut to +15 boost, although I think eD recommends never using more than 3db boost. Also has a variable subsonic filter.

Audioholics reviewed it, and I think the only complaint was that it's difficult to fine tune due to the knobs.

 

[alphaiii]

Note: The O Audio has a parametric EQ, but it only has negative dB settings, no positive/boost capabilities. So it can not be used to extend the response of the subs in small sealed cabinets. I had forgotten this important detail. To get desired extension in a small sealed cabinet, you need to have a parametric EQ available. If anyone is interested in low priced solutions, let me know and I will search for some examples.

-Chris

So I looked through the OAudio manual, and while you can't boost with the PEQ, it does have the bass extension/subsonic filter which the manual says "adjusts the combination of low frequency boost and subsonic filter rolloff."

Maybe I'm not following clearly, but what low frequency boost is built in that is adjusted with this control?

 

[Seth=L]

How about one of those ETL subs?

 

[jliedeka]

I couldn't resist the sale price on the 12" Dayton Reference sub. I still need a plate amp and a box. Since I'm still working on other speakers, it may be a while before I do something with it.

I'm ok with the lack of boost in the O-Audio plate amp. I'm just glad of the EQ which will let me dial down the worst room mode. This is a pretty small room so I really don't need a lot of SPL or extension.

Jim