IRS To Enforce Healthcare Reform

[griffinconst]

Everyone should know that if the healthcare bill passes, everyone will be required to buy health insurace, whether you want it or not. And if you don't, you will be fined by the government and that fine will be collected by the IRS.
More power is the LAST thing the IRS should have.
The one enforcement agency in America where you are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[highfigh]

Everyone should know that if the healthcare bill passes, everyone will be required to buy health insurace, whether you want it or not. And if you don't, you will be fined by the government and that fine will be collected by the IRS.
More power is the LAST thing the IRS should have.
The one enforcement agency in America where you are guilty until proven innocent.

More power is the last thing ANY GOVERNMENT should have. Most of what they want to do should be handled by the states but these dirtballs want the government to control everything, and everyone. It's like they never read Animal Farm or 1984 and that was required reading when I was in high school. The odd thing is that so many teachers are very liberal, but I never got the impression that they were condoning Communism.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1893/Flashback-Gore-US-Climate-Bill-Will-Help-Bring-About-Global-Governance

 

[GO-NAD!]

Perhaps it's none of my business, as an "outsider", but the US needs health care reform in a big way. But, this bill has been so bastardized, that it's neither fish nor fowl and I think it destined to be a big failure. I know lots of people don't trust the government to run health care properly, but I would trust insurance companies much less. When your primary motive is the bottom line, the costs of caring for a patient becomes just a drag on profits. What are they going to do? Find any way they can to get out of caring for the patient, that's what they do.

I apologize if my opinion isn't welcome and I'll butt out, if you guys want.

 

[Ares]

We are suppose to be the most powerful and riches nation on the planet,and yet we fail to provide healthcare to those who need it most. I don't like the fact that the government will impose fines on someone who can't afford health insurance because some people will have a choice to make, do I feed my family or do I pay for my families insurance? Given those choices I would opt to feed my family first. There has to be a balance to government,to much government is not a good thing and so is to little government. It makes no sense that the people we elect have better health care than most of the Americans that voted for them something is very wrong here my friends. On this issue I blame both party's for this because they are both at fault for not fixing this issue long ago and this new bill is also a disappointment. So if I had the ears of those in power I would tell them put your ego aside and do what is right for the people and I mean for all the people stop the BS political games and do the job that you have been sent to do. This is just my take on it.

 

[Warpdrv]

So how does the Govt handle the fact that there are amazing amounts of people that are living off food stamps and breeding more children (freeloading off the system) to collect even more free money from the tax payers that maintain an honest living...

Is someone suggesting that those leeches of the system are going to pay for healthcare the same as the rest of us...? Whats the IRS's plan to collect from them...?

How is this going to be handled...

 

[GO-NAD!]

Too many politicians are in the back pockets of the insurance companies. As long as this is going on, real reform can't happen. I don't understand this requirement for everybody to buy insurance. Can the insurance companies still deny covergae, based on "pre-existing conditions"? If they can't, are they going to charge a kings ransom in premiums? I think it will be a complete and utter mess.

This pathological fear of a universal health care system is unfounded. Canada's system needs some "upgrading", but going back to completely private insurance coverage will never happen here. Ever. Wanna know why? Because under a universal system, there are no worries about being denied treatment, for any reason. There is no incentive to short change patients in their care, because there isn't a profit motive. Many Americans think that will lead to massive wastage, but when you consider that that the US health care system is the most expensive in the world, by a large margin, that arguement doesn't stand up.

There are no government bureaucrats standing between you and your treatment. No "death panels" deciding whether Granny is too old to be worth the investment of health care dollars. Nobody decides who your doctor will be.

Contrast that with insurance companies deciding which hospital you most go to, what treatments are appropriate, etc.

In other words you should have more fear of insurance company reps standing between you and your health care, than a government bureaucrat doing the same thing.

Just think of all the government run services you already have: defence, police, fire depts, judiciary, prosecution services, etc. Would you want them all privatized? No? Why is health care any different?

With a universal health care system, taxes will increase of course. It isn't "free" after all. However, think about those insurance premiums you wouldn't be paying.

I will not say that a government run system is without problems. Lord knows, we have plenty of problems. However, if Canadians were polled and asked if they would trade their health care system for that in the US, I believe the overwhelming response would be a big fat NO.

I have travelled to the US many times, met many wonderful people. My experiences have been very positive. I believe your country is a great place, along with her people. It's mind-boggling to see her people so ill-served by her health care system.

I wish you all the best in reforming it. but, I'm sadly sceptical...

 

[highfigh]

Perhaps it's none of my business, as an "outsider", but the US needs health care reform in a big way. But, this bill has been so bastardized, that it's neither fish nor fowl and I think it destined to be a big failure. I know lots of people don't trust the government to run health care properly, but I would trust insurance companies much less. When your primary motive is the bottom line, the costs of caring for a patient becomes just a drag on profits. What are they going to do? Find any way they can to get out of caring for the patient, that's what they do.

I apologize if my opinion isn't welcome and I'll butt out, if you guys want.

If government could be trusted in general, it might be OK for them to decide how health care shoudl be run but since, as you mentioned, this bill bears little/no resemblance to a health care bill, the last thing I want is for Congress to draft something that A) won't work and B) can't be changed after the fact.

We need a lot of things and some of the main things are: getting people to stop being so greedy, arrogant, materialistic and selfish.

 

[GO-NAD!]

So how does the Govt handle the fact that there are amazing amounts of people that are living off food stamps and breeding more children (freeloading off the system) to collect even more free money from the tax payers that maintain an honest living...

Is someone suggesting that those leeches of the system are going to pay for healthcare the same as the rest of us...? Whats the IRS's plan to collect from them...?

How is this going to be handled...

People aren't poor because they want to be. They aren't always poor because they're lazy leeches. Many people are dealt a bad hand in life. Some may call it undeserved charity, to take care of them.

Just remember, all it takes is a bad run of luck to put any particular person in the same boat. Come down with cancer and your insurance company comes up with a reason not to pay for treatment - that's it - you're financially ruined.

Even when your care is completely paid for by insurance, it comes from other peoples premiums, in addition to your own. Would that make you a leech as well? Others could say, "if you didn't have cancer, my premiums would be lower!" Would that make you a leech? Of course not!

Remember, there, but for the grace of God go I...

 

[highfigh]

Too many politicians are in the back pockets of the insurance companies. As long as this is going on, real reform can't happen. I don't understand this requirement for everybody to buy insurance. Can the insurance companies still deny covergae, based on "pre-existing conditions"? If they can't, are they going to charge a kings ransom in premiums? I think it will be a complete and utter mess.

This pathological fear of a universal health care system is unfounded. Canada's system needs some "upgrading", but going back to completely private insurance coverage will never happen here. Ever. Wanna know why? Because under a universal system, there are no worries about being denied treatment, for any reason. There is no incentive to short change patients in their care, because there isn't a profit motive. Many Americans think that will lead to massive wastage, but when you consider that that the US health care system is the most expensive in the world, by a large margin, that arguement doesn't stand up.

There are no government bureaucrats standing between you and your treatment. No "death panels" deciding whether Granny is too old to be worth the investment of health care dollars. Nobody decides who your doctor will be.

Contrast that with insurance companies deciding which hospital you most go to, what treatments are appropriate, etc.

In other words you should have more fear of insurance company reps standing between you and your health care, than a government bureaucrat doing the same thing.

Just think of all the government run services you already have: defence, police, fire depts, judiciary, prosecution services, etc. Would you want them all privatized? No? Why is health care any different?

With a universal health care system, taxes will increase of course. It isn't "free" after all. However, think about those insurance premiums you wouldn't be paying.

I will not say that a government run system is without problems. Lord knows, we have plenty of problems. However, if Canadians were polled and asked if they would trade their health care system for that in the US, I believe the overwhelming response would be a big fat NO.

I have travelled to the US many times, met many wonderful people. My experiences have been very positive. I believe your country is a great place, along with her people. It's mind-boggling to see her people so ill-served by her health care system.

I wish you all the best in reforming it. but, I'm sadly sceptical...

We have approximately 45% of working adults not paying income tax as it is. Adding to the tax burden of those who do, so government can say they're making sure everyone is insured will only guarantee more hard feelings. We have too many people hoovering up benefits at the expense of those who pay taxes because, let's face it, the government doesn't actually pay for things and services- they spend for things and services. They decide what needs to be spent, they tax us and then collect it in the future. Usually, they don't scale back on spending until the risk of being voted out of office becomes a threat.

 

[Ares]

If government could be trusted in general, it might be OK for them to decide how health care shoudl be run but since, as you mentioned, this bill bears little/no resemblance to a health care bill, the last thing I want is for Congress to draft something that A) won't work and B) can't be changed after the fact.

We need a lot of things and some of the main things are: getting people to stop being so greedy, arrogant, materialistic and selfish.

I agree but we both know that would be like asking fish to stop swimming and birds to stop flying, Health Care should not be used as a political game but should viewed as a right to life.

 

[Ares]

We have approximately 45% of working adults not paying income tax as it is. Adding to the tax burden of those who do, so government can say they're making sure everyone is insured will only guarantee more hard feelings. We have too many people hoovering up benefits at the expense of those who pay taxes because, let's face it, the government doesn't actually pay for things and services- they spend for things and services. They decide what needs to be spent, they tax us and then collect it in the future. Usually, they don't scale back on spending until the risk of being voted out of office becomes a threat.

It's the ones with the most money who pay the least taxes.

 

[highfigh]

People aren't poor because they want to be. They aren't always poor because they're lazy leeches. Many people are dealt a bad hand in life. Some may call it undeserved charity, to take care of them.

Just remember, all it takes is a bad run of luck to put any particular person in the same boat. Come down with cancer and your insurance company comes up with a reason not to pay for treatment - that's it - you're financially ruined.

Even when your care is completely paid for by insurance, it comes from other peoples premiums, in addition to your own. Would that make you a leech as well? Others could say, "if you didn't have cancer, my premiums would be lower!" Would that make you a leech? Of course not!

Remember, there, but for the grace of God go I...

Look at the statistics for illiteracy, student grades, dropout percentage and high school graduation rates, along with teenage pregnancy rates. Then, look at the percentage of "families" that have one parent and how many of those parents work. These are all tied together.

Not that all single parent families are going to fail- they aren't. I have a cousin who has been married and divorced twice. I think her first husband got into coke and her second husband was a serious alcoholic, but hid it extremely well before they were married. She has a daughter from each marriage and before she married for the second time, she took a part-time job so she could go to school for her Master's Degree. She was a teacher but wasn't making enough to support herself and her daughter comfortably in SoCal. While her daughter wasn't happy about not seeing her mom as much as she would have liked, she did understand that it was for both of them that this was happening. She also learned how to be more independent because of how her mom took control of her own life after the divorce. She didn't drink, do drugs, sleep around or give up- she grabbed her situation by the balls and made it work for her. She's a guidance councilor with two great daughters. I know someone else who was involved with someone and once she became pregnant, decided that the guy was just not who she wanted raising her daughter, so she gave him the boot. They weren't married and he really wasn't interested in being a father or husband, so he didn't actually care. She did a great job of raising her daughter and had a really good job in Chicago until she moved up here recently (she married a friend of mine and they decided to live here instead of moving half-way between Chicago and MKE).

Here in MKE, we have a long history of extremely liberal government and it shows. Our welfare system was like a beacon for moths at night- people came up here from all over for the benefits and many stayed, swelling the low-income population drastically. We have been called the most segregated city in the US, we have about the highest teen pregnancy rate, one of the lowest high school graduation rates and one of, if not the worst, school systems in the nation. Along with these, we have some of the highest income and property taxes, yet our per capita state deficit is higher than California's.

 

[highfigh]

It's the ones with the most money who pay the least taxes.

That's a load of crap. Approximately 10% of taxpayers pay 59% of the revenue to the IRS.

 

[Ares]

That's a load of crap. Approximately 10% of taxpayers pay 59% of the revenue to the IRS.

Well both Buffett admitted that they pay less taxes then their employees.

 

[highfigh]

I agree but we both know that would be like asking fish to stop swimming and birds to stop flying, Health Care should not be used as a political game but should viewed as a right to life.

We need to stop looking at so many things as 'rights'. People get sick and die all the time, all over the world and there's nothing that says everyone can have the same care, nor is it practical to think that all people will have access to this. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, free speech and others are great but we're losing them slowly, but surely. I don't know where it says we have the right to survive catastrophic illness or have people go to extraordinary lengths to help. Science and engineering, brilliant ideas and the occasional accidental discovery make the incredible technology available for saving lives. The only thing that keeps it from being universally available is the cost. It's expensive on a large scale, which means that it's absolutely prohibitively expensive on a small scale. How do you tell someone that they're required to pay for someone elses' health care and that they have no say in the matter?

Part of the problem is that too many people expect things that may not be possible. While shooting for the stars is a great way to not become complacent or discouraged, it's also a double-edged sword, in that people who have no hope of getting things on their own often are led to believe that anything is possible, no matter how unlikely.

Poor countries can't pay for it top-level health care but I have to think that most locations on this planet have something that can be exploited in order to provide for the people. The problem is that the leaders of so many of these countries would rather grab all the cash, material possessions and power they can and keep the people in their place of squalid poverty. Look at most of Africa- lots of sand, some rain forest and even more nothingness, yet they have incredibly high birth rates, disease and other problems caused by their not wanting to follow guidelines for avoiding Aids, unwanted pregnancies and disease. One of the basic needs of most living things is clean water. These leaders make sure that they have what they need but the poor are left to starve, be killed and raped by invading soldiers and then, look away while it happens.

Many of the people in the US who are perennial receivers of government assistance are in that position because they are descendants of people who gave up trying after Welfare started. I remember when people may not have had much, but they worked for what they had. People like them are still around, but so many think they can get rich by selling drugs, hanging out in gangs/leading the thug life, being a star athlete or musical star that the reality never seems like it can fail. The others gave up a long time ago and don't care if they live or die, so they do everything they can to find a trill. Unfortunately, the ways they find a thrill often kills them or someone else in the process.

Governments don't exist to care for people, they exist so they can control people, IMO. By making people thing the government will "give" people what they "need", those people stop trying to do some things for themselves. When this happens, those people will likely never leave that position in life and they'll look at themselves as victims, who need the government and this is exactly where government wants them. Educated people who can think and do for themselves are dangerous to governments with ambitions.

 

[highfigh]

Well both Buffett admitted that they pay less taxes then their employees.

Both Buffet and whom, Gates? That's two people- what about the rest of those who have high incomes? I know some who get their asses taxed off every year. I'm not sure why they aren't in favor of nationalized health care- every year, it's the same old "I just had a new one sewn on, what do you think?".

Think about it- do all people itemize their deductions? Do most people even know what they can deduct? Do they know that the deductions will help them pay less taxes? Do they bother to find out if they can take more deductions? NO, they don't. People who make a lot of money take these deductions because A) they have someone prepare their tax forms, these people look for deductions for their clients and they know how to use the tax code to their advantage. Should someone be forced to sell the house they inherited from their parents because they can't afford the taxes, whether inheritance or property tax? Should the US tax at the rate the UK did in the late '60s, when groups like the Rolling Stones, Clapton, etc left the country so they wouldn't have to pay 85% of what they made in a year, all because the "dole" system of paying the unemployed shelled out something like 80% of the worker's normal pay rate, leaving mo incentive to go back to work, or find another job?

People who receive benefits from the government won't tell the government to stop paying them. People in government who want people to need them will look for ways to spend money on the people who need them and then they have to find ways to collect this money, regardless of whether that money is collected voluntarily, or not. I think a government that doesn't give people the incentive to learn and improve themselves is failing those people. People who are addicted to one thing or another may only hear that what they need/want/crave is illegal but that just makes them want it more- it's oart of human nature. If these people knew what they're doing to their minds and bodies by continuing to abuse whatever they are, they may re-think it. Some get off of it, many can't or don't want to. Now that these people can't find/hold a job, they need some kind of assistance, right? Who pays for their health care? The same ones who pay for their other needs. What about people who know they shouldn't eat alll of the bad foods that are too easy to get, in quantities that would choke a horse? After a while, they neither can stop eating this crap, nor can they stop- they're as addicted to it as some one who uses many other drugs. What happens when they need multiple bypass surgery, heart/lung/liver/pancrease/kidney transplant, etc? Who should pay for that? Should the expense fall on the rest, who had no part in those people getting to the point that they need these procedures? If we're paying for them, should we be able to say that others need to watch their weight get some exercise, stop smoking, get off of drugs/alcohol?

 

[GO-NAD!]

How do you tell someone that they're required to pay for someone elses' health care and that they have no say in the matter?

If your paying health insurance premiums, that's already happening...

If you've never had a house fire, why don't you demand that none of your taxes go towards mantaining your local fire dept?

 

[highfigh]

If your paying health insurance premiums, that's already happening...

But the fact that someone is paying for it means they decided to. I don't know how someone who can't afford insurance can afford to be fined by the IRS for not having it. That makes no sense. It's the same thinking behind the Cash For Clunkers program. People who wanted to get in on that had to have insures the vehicle for the year before the trade. Russ Feingold said that was discriminatory because not all who wanted to trade their clunkers in could afford to insure said clunker. Well, I'd like to know how someone who couldn't afford to insure a POS can afford to make new car payments and since insurance is required in order to finance a car, how will they afford that, in addition to the car payments? If the loan includes insurance, these people are probably getting hosed. If now, the banks and loan companies are going to be stuck with a lot of crashed cars and trucks, but the car/truck buyers will probably walk on the loans, with the associated poop stain on their credit rating. That, along with the $1.6B it cost for the government to administer the program. I haven't heard the stats on how many dealers have/haven't been paid yet- the media dropped it like it was a glowing ember.

Does anyone know of a government program that is efficient?

 

[highfigh]

If your paying health insurance premiums, that's already happening...

If you've never had a house fire, why don't you demand that none of your taxes go towards mantaining your local fire dept?

Fire departments bill homeowners and insurance companies when they respond to a fire. Only property tax payers pay for this, directly. Renters don't, although the cost to the property owner for all expenses is a major factor in how much they pay for rent. Because I own a duplex, I'm required to have an umbrella policy, in case something happens. In 12 years, nothing has happened that caused me to need the policy. Part of one of my trees fell and peeled the cables off of my house, close to ten years ago. I got about $850 from them. Wanna guess if I have used it at all, for anything else, in 12 years? My car drowned in '98, through no fault of myself. The sewer system where it was parked couldn't handle the flow and the people I was working for thought it better that I try to save their store than move my car to high ground. Guess who got hosed on that one. The same car had been stolen on Christmas Eve and my deductible was $250. I had to pay that out of pocket but the dirtbag who stole it got to make $15 payments, when he felt like it. That took a year and a half. I didn't leave the keys in it, it was locked and it was on our property. He took it upon himself to break in and steal it. Did I mind that he was arrested immediately upon returning to where he lived, because he made some noise that got the attention of one of the cops who were at that corner on another call? Not at all.

 

[JerryLove]

Everyone should know that if the healthcare bill passes, everyone will be required to buy health insurace, whether you want it or not.

Everyone should know that whether it passes or not, you are already paying for healthcare manditorily given to the poor, vetrens, and the old.

And if you don't, you will be fined by the government and that fine will be collected by the IRS.

You mean like how they already do? Or have you been dodging your medicare and SS taxes?

More power is the LAST thing the IRS should have.
The one enforcement agency in America where you are guilty until proven innocent.

Feel free to show me how they are more abusive than say, the private credit industry.