720 or 1080?

[wyllisx1]

I know in my head that at 11.5' viewing distance a 50" or 54" panny plasma will look good with either 720 or 1080p. I also know that I won't be able to discern any real differences. So why do I want to spend hundreds more for a 1080p?

The likely hood is that I'll never really get much closer than the 11.5' unless I watch from the floor & that's not likely but my sons will. I'm the dad I get the couch!

Besides the wanna factor is there rally any reason I shouldn't just jump on the 720p bandwagon & get the cheaper tv now that I may actually be able to afford? Or should I wait it out & get the extra $$ for the 1080p. Yes I want the V10 but I could easily "settle" for the G10 or G15.

BTW for my viewing it'll be 50/50 tv blue ray. I don't have the capability nor the desire to go with a pj.

So do I wait or jump on board the 720p train come Friday?

 

[lsiberian]

Life is full of tradeoffs for tv watching you have no difference between the 720 sets and 1080. Blu-ray has a difference, but contrast is what I've found to matter most.

 

[RedBank]

720p is eh

I know in my head that at 11.5' viewing distance a 50" or 54" panny plasma will look good with either 720 or 1080p. I also know that I won't be able to discern any real differences. So why do I want to spend hundreds more for a 1080p?

The likely hood is that I'll never really get much closer than the 11.5' unless I watch from the floor & that's not likely but my sons will. I'm the dad I get the couch!

Besides the wanna factor is there rally any reason I shouldn't just jump on the 720p bandwagon & get the cheaper tv now that I may actually be able to afford? Or should I wait it out & get the extra $$ for the 1080p. Yes I want the V10 but I could easily "settle" for the G10 or G15.

BTW for my viewing it'll be 50/50 tv blue ray. I don't have the capability nor the desire to go with a pj.

So do I wait or jump on board the 720p train come Friday?

Being a Plasma/HD n00b to the fullest...I can tell you from my initial experience...720p on any tv over 46" has a drastic difference compared to a 1080.

I was just gifted my first big plasma (Sanyo 50" 720p). Now I dont have a BR player yet and still need to upgrade my receiver...however 720p on 50" is very disappointing to me. If I purchased this TV...I would have one hell of a buyers remorse issue.

Now keep in mind I am speaking about general cable/TV shows that are broadcast in HD and not Blu Ray broadcast (that comes after x-mas)...but if you are going big...spend the extra cashish and go for 1080...you wont regret it!

 

[Adam]

Being a Plasma/HD n00b to the fullest...I can tell you from my initial experience...720p on any tv over 46" has a drastic difference compared to a 1080.

It's not really about screen size, but rather about viewing angle. The OP had it right when discussing screen size and resolution as a function of viewing distance. A 50" 720p is going to look like a 50" 1080p from far enough away. The link here is for one of the charts available that help to summarize this, which I'm sure is based on average human visual acuity. Individual people won't fit those curves exactly, but it's a good guideline.

 

[skers_54]

1080p sets generally have higher quality panels than the 720p sets from the same manufacturer, so you get more than just increased resolution. I just got a Panny X1 and really like it. My dad's S1, however, has better color accuracy, contrast and brightness (subjectively). The difference post-calibration isn't huge but it is noticable. Out of the box and before delving into the service menu is a different story (X1's don't have real good color accuracy from the factory). If you're willing to lay down the cash, the 1080p sets do have quite a bit to offer, but the 720p sets are a great bang for the buck. On a side note, a lot of people here recommend saving a few bucks and getting an S series if you're not going to spring for a V.

 

[jliedeka]

It's true that the resolution difference between 720p and 1080p will be indistinguishable from that distance. Another point to consider, however, would be scaling issues. 1080i material will just get de-interlaced, therefore, no scaling artifacts. 1080i and1080p sources will have to be converted to 720p through scaling which may cause artifacts in the video under certain conditions. That's just my speculation, by the way, so don't consider that as more than a single data point.

My feeling is buy the best you can afford. If the S1 is out of reach, get the X1 and don't sweat it. If the extra cash for the S1 isn't too big of a burden, I'd go that way and not have to worry about buyer's remorse.

Jim

 

[3db]

It's not really about screen size, but rather about viewing angle. The OP had it right when discussing screen size and resolution as a function of viewing distance. A 50" 720p is going to look like a 50" 1080p from far enough away. The link here is for one of the charts available that help to summarize this, which I'm sure is based on average human visual acuity. Individual people won't fit those curves exactly, but it's a good guideline.

That link says it all and I would have posted it it but you beat me to it. The further you sit away from a high rez set, the lower the net result and the lower the gain realizied. If your seating position is not within the recommended distance specified by that graph, save yourself some money and go with the lower resolution.

 

[Phil Taylor]

My rule of thumb is 50" or less 720 is OK - more go with 1080p. I know what the charts say ... I have a 42" 720p Panny plasma for regular viewing and my projector for movies and sports (and LOST and Survivor). So at 50 - and especially 54" you may want the "smoothness" of 1080p (ask a woman how much difference an extra 4" makes) ...

 

[Pyrrho]

It's not really about screen size, but rather about viewing angle. The OP had it right when discussing screen size and resolution as a function of viewing distance. A 50" 720p is going to look like a 50" 1080p from far enough away. The link here is for one of the charts available that help to summarize this, which I'm sure is based on average human visual acuity. Individual people won't fit those curves exactly, but it's a good guideline.

I believe it is based upon the assumption of 20/20 vision. If your vision is average, it will be worse than that, so you could sit closer before noticing any difference.

 

[Pyrrho]

I know in my head that at 11.5' viewing distance a 50" or 54" panny plasma will look good with either 720 or 1080p. I also know that I won't be able to discern any real differences. So why do I want to spend hundreds more for a 1080p?

The likely hood is that I'll never really get much closer than the 11.5' unless I watch from the floor & that's not likely but my sons will. I'm the dad I get the couch!

Besides the wanna factor is there rally any reason I shouldn't just jump on the 720p bandwagon & get the cheaper tv now that I may actually be able to afford? Or should I wait it out & get the extra $$ for the 1080p. Yes I want the V10 but I could easily "settle" for the G10 or G15.

BTW for my viewing it'll be 50/50 tv blue ray. I don't have the capability nor the desire to go with a pj.

So do I wait or jump on board the 720p train come Friday?

The question is, how close will your sons sit? For you in your seat, 720p is fine and anything more would be a waste of money if only you were watching, but for your sons, if they will sit closer than about 9.75 feet with a 50" TV (or 10.53 feet with a 54" TV), then it would be better to have 1080p than 720p, assuming they have 20/20 vision.

Here is a calculator you can use:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/viewing_distance.php

In my case, I sit just over 8' from my 768p 42" TV. If I sat much closer, then it would be good to have 1080p, but at my size and distance, it would be stupid to pay for a 1080p TV.

You should pay for what will be used, not for the sake of a higher number that sounds impressive to fools who don't know what matters. Of course, if you moved the TV to a different room, or changed the seating to be closer, then having a 1080p TV might be better.

 

[lsiberian]

My motto is be cheap. Your bank account will thank you later.

 

[j_garcia]

720p is great if you have a small set and sit closer to it. If you are going to sit farther and use a large display, I'd go with 1080p even though it will cost you more.

 

[Adam]

I believe it is based upon the assumption of 20/20 vision. If your vision is average, it will be worse than that, so you could sit closer before noticing any difference.

Isn't 20/20 vision average by definition?

Not an argument, just a question. After all, a lot of people that I know have corrective lenses to achieve 20/20 vision, and I wear mine while watching TV.

 

[Adam]

720p is great if you have a small set and sit closer to it. If you are going to sit farther and use a large display, I'd go with 1080p even though it will cost you more.

John, did you say that correctly? I'd think "smaller set and further away" for 720p and "larger set and closer" for 1080p.

 

[Pyrrho]

Isn't 20/20 vision average by definition?

Not an argument, just a question. After all, a lot of people that I know have corrective lenses to achieve 20/20 vision, and I wear mine while watching TV.

No. See:

http://www.uihealthcare.com/topics/medicaldepartments/ophthalmology/2020vision/index.html

Only about 35 percent of all adults have 20/20 vision without glasses, contact lenses or corrective surgery.

So it is better than what the average person sees naturally.

You can get a more technical definition of what 20/20 vision means, but it does not alter the fact that it is not simply an average of what people can see (the average, frankly, would change as the population changes, which would make it a poor standard). 20/20 vision is considered "normal", but it is not the average.

See also:

http://www.aoa.org/x4695.xml

 

[Adam]

Thanks, Pyrrho.

I wonder what the average is after corrective lenses.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks, Pyrrho.

I wonder what the average is after corrective lenses.

You are welcome.

I do not know off the top of my head about what the average is with the use of corrective lenses, and I do not feel like googling for it at the moment. I know that optometrists often try to get people to better than 20/20 vision with corrective lenses, but with some people, even 20/20 isn't possible.

And, of course, there is more that can go wrong with vision than just being worse than 20/20, as the ability to focus on objects up close is partly a function of the flexibility of the lens (in your eye), and as people age, the lens tends to get less flexible, and so many older people need reading glasses for things that are close to them. And there are other issues, too, but I will not presently cause the thread to digress further in the direction of human vision and the various problems that people can have.

 

[Adam]

Would you agree that the chart would be an applicable ballpark for the average person, given that most people get corrective lenses if they can't see well?

On a related note, I could take my glasses off and be happy with something like 200i.

 

[highfigh]

I know in my head that at 11.5' viewing distance a 50" or 54" panny plasma will look good with either 720 or 1080p. I also know that I won't be able to discern any real differences. So why do I want to spend hundreds more for a 1080p?

The likely hood is that I'll never really get much closer than the 11.5' unless I watch from the floor & that's not likely but my sons will. I'm the dad I get the couch!

Besides the wanna factor is there rally any reason I shouldn't just jump on the 720p bandwagon & get the cheaper tv now that I may actually be able to afford? Or should I wait it out & get the extra $$ for the 1080p. Yes I want the V10 but I could easily "settle" for the G10 or G15.

BTW for my viewing it'll be 50/50 tv blue ray. I don't have the capability nor the desire to go with a pj.

So do I wait or jump on board the 720p train come Friday?

If you can set the output resolution of the source, 720 is great, especially with Time Warner cable and programs with a lot of action. I was doing some remote control setup at a client's house yesterday and they have a Pioneer commercial plasma, which is 768p. I'm not a fan of Time Warner and when I had their service, I was very disappointed by the sound and video quality but when I set it to one of the local channels in HD, it was the best I have seen on a T-W channel and this TV is 2-1/2 years old. They don't have a BD player, though, so I couldn't compare it to that.

A projector won't be sharper and the black level won't be as deep.

 

[3db]

Would you agree that the chart would be an applicable ballpark for the average person, given that most people get corrective lenses if they can't see well?

On a related note, I could take my glasses off and be happy with something like 200i.

You and me both!!! Cheers

Whether average or not, normal or not, a base line needs to be established or the whole things gets thrown out the window anyway as worthless. If one cannot sit close enough to a set with 1080p resolutuion, then one is effectively tossing out money on something they cannot reap benefit for. Size does matter, I don't care what anyone says. Based on my setup, I should have gotten a 60" screen to get the full benefits of 1080p