Stance on pirating?

[mike29892]

Whats everyones stance on pirating. Saw the thread on morality and thought this would be a nice stem out from that thread on a more specific issue.

 

[NicolasKL]

The Somalian kind or the Napster kind?

Piracy sucks. Part of the reason the PC game market is going down the crapper is due to the rampant piracy. Morality aside, I'd never pirate a game just because I want to reward the people that are actually making quality content.

I wouldn't pirate music either, even if I didn't think it was morally objectionable I wouldn't do it just because I want to have the quality and permanency of a CD. Plus not having the ID3 tags right drives me nuts and it seems like the pirates have never bothered to put much effort into that.

 

[highfigh]

Whats everyones stance on pirating. Saw the thread on morality and thought this would be a nice stem out from that thread on a more specific issue.

Major "artists" negotiate for a cut of the sales of their music and if they're smart, they don't give up the publishing rights. If they're not smart or are desperate to 'make it in the music industry', the record company owns the songs, tapes, pays an advance that is supposed to be used for recording and maybe some instruments that get the sounds the band wants. This advance isn't a gift- it's repaid to the record company from the sales of the music in whatever form it takes and if sales are weak, the band ends up owing the record company for a long time. Sometimes, they end up filing for bankruptcy like Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers did after three albums. Sometimes, the advance money is snorted up or otherwise wasted by the producer and this happens all the time. People look at piracy as "screwing the record company" but the first in line for the screwing is whoever wrote the music.

I won't do it and a major part of why is that I know a lot of musicians who are really talented but will probably not be a big success because they won't sell their souls for the sake of a record contract.

 

[markw]

Unlike the other attributes that have been referenced in these morality threads such as drinking, drugs, loose sex, and even homosexuality, there is a major difference between them and piracy. All those are victimless crimes. They are affecting nobody except themselves.

Piracy is not a victimless crime.

Pure and simple, it's stealing from the artist and, yes, the music companies.

So, if you can justify stealing from them because they are not "in your face" and apparantly easy prey, what's to say that you wouldn't move that line a bit to include those closer to you?

I read a piece where three homeless guys robbed a dying man in an emergency room in Philadelphia last week. Same basic premise. They figured they could get away with it. Thanks to cameras, they were wrong. They now have a home, paid for by the taxpayers.

 

[JerryLove]

Piracy sucks. Part of the reason the PC game market is going down the crapper is due to the rampant piracy. Morality aside, I'd never pirate a game just because I want to reward the people that are actually making quality content.

I just really cannot agree with this. I don't see how piracy got Obsidian to release KOTOR II incomplete (and never complete it), not Spore with half the features from the beta gone (that seems to be the add-on packs), nor how piracy made them put in a crap control system on MOO III, or try to sell downloadable content *in game* in Dragon Age.

No. Piracy may be involved in why there's such draconian anti-piracy software (what do you mean I can't reinstall the game? Where did this root-kit come from?): but it didn't make games suck.

 

[JerryLove]

Major "artists" negotiate for a cut of the sales of their music and if they're smart, they don't give up the publishing rights. If they're not smart or are desperate to 'make it in the music industry', the record company owns the songs, tapes, pays an advance that is supposed to be used for recording and maybe some instruments that get the sounds the band wants.

If the "artist" doesn't give that up, they don't get to produce an album.

It's hard to be smart when there's tons of money being shaken in your face and you have no experience. The fact that you don't get to have that money is something the artist only finds out later.

People look at piracy as "screwing the record company" but the first in line for the screwing is whoever wrote the music.

With artists making the bulk of their income from concerts, that's hard to support.

I adamently oppose for-profit piracy.

Let's say I "fail to support" private-party piracy (at least on the scale the internet allows).

I am a bit iffy on "but the copyright holder refuses to release it. I would give them my money if they would take it" being immoral.

I've got a shelf full of legit software, a rack full of legit (if used) DVDs, and a box full of legit CDs from before I started DLing from Amazon... but I'm not about to paint all piracy with the same brush.

One last thing: I adamantly oppose corporate piracy: such as the music industries illegal use of songs without compensation to artists (see the recent suit against the Canadian RIAA for an example)

 

[Ares]

I am against Piracy, I don't buy bootleg movies or games because I would be stealing from those men and women who put in the work to provide a life for their families. Plus bootlegs are never top quality that old saying holds true you'll get what you pay for, also life has a funny way of getting even with you nobody leaves this life without paying what they owe.

 

[JerryLove]

Plus bootlegs are never top quality that old saying holds true you'll get what you pay for, also life has a funny way of getting even with you nobody leaves this life without paying what they owe.

Actually: there are some very professionally pirated media out there. DVDs without the manditory commercials at the beginning, and CDs that don't try to install root-kits on your PC or stop you from ripping the songs.

In the PC world, there's actually a good number of people who legitemately own a piece of software but run the pirated version because, for example, it doesn't require fishing out the original CD and putting it in the drive like the legit install does.

 

[Ares]

Thanks Jerry I didn't know that, I guess it's true you learn somthing new everyday. Thanks again for the info.

 

[tbergman]

I am against Piracy, I don't buy bootleg movies or games because I would be stealing from those men and women who put in the work to provide a life for their families. Plus bootlegs are never top quality that old saying holds true you'll get what you pay for, also life has a funny way of getting even with you nobody leaves this life without paying what they owe.

Who buys pirated material? Isn't the whole point getting it for free?

 

[Ares]

Have you ever seen the guy who has dvds of a movie currently in theaters selling them on the street for like $5?

 

[tbergman]

I live in the middle of Iowa, we don't have people selling movies on the street...

 

[Ares]

It happens a lot here in Chicago, I could walk out my front door and get any new movie that is in theaters for $5, bootlegs of PS2 games for $2.50,Xbox 360 bootlegs for $6

 

[tbergman]

Or you could get any of those things for free on the internet... I really don't understand buying something from someone so shady.

 

[Ares]

If you download this stuff yourself the greater chance you have of getting busted but if buy from a guy that is taking that chance there is no risk for you, as long you don't know each other. Like I said I don't condone this I just know how it's done.

 

[tbergman]

I guess I didn't think of it that way, also not condoning purchasing or downloading pirated material. Just didn't realize that selling bootlegged material as still common.

 

[Ares]

From my understanding that movie studios lose billions in revenue due to bootlegs. but I could be wrong on the numbers.

 

[JerryLove]

From my understanding that movie studios lose billions in revenue due to bootlegs. but I could be wrong on the numbers.

The movie industry of course puts out the biggest numbers they could come up with.

There's honestly no way to tell what real losses are. One would need to know how many tickets and new DVDs would have been baught had pirated copies not been available... there's just know way to know. Someone who gets pirated material might have bought it otherwise, or might have rented it, or might have borrowed it from a friend, or might have skipped it all together.

 

[Biggiesized]

I share your views, JerryLove.

How much does Adobe really care about copyright infringement with respect to its products? I suspect they might as well let people get hooked so they'll come back to it later in their professional lives. It has a high enough learning curve as it is.

A lot of times people resort to copyright infringement simply because there are no good or legal alternatives. The system is so screwed up (look at what the RIAA and record labels have been doing for the past decade) but the companies in charge refuse to propose an alternative besides "don't do it."

Corporate/commercial copyright infringement is a humongous no-no. Anyone who gets caught deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[lsiberian]

Well as a person in the software industry. I most certainly oppose people stealing from my peers. If you think we should have offered it for free then go make your own software. If someone tells me they pirate I see them as stealing from me directly. There is no excuse for stealing software. Every thing out there has an open source equivalent that is just as good and sometimes even better. I remind people that maintenance is the biggest cost in Software Engineering so by buying the product they are contributing to the budget for maintaining the software.

On music I personally know a rock star in another part of the world that doesn't make hardly any money because of piracy. That's truly sad. He's better than anything on American Idol and yet he's not rewarded for his hard work.

the record companies have families too. By paying for things we promote our economy and create jobs. By stealing things we promote crime and destroy jobs.