Weird tone when playing SACD on an Oppo DV-980H

[cwall99]

Every once in a while, when I drop an SACD into my Oppo DV-980H, it fires up and starts playing a weird high-pitched tone. I don't know how high it is, but it's pretty high and really annoying. I play SACDs via DSD over HDMI 1.2 through my Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS. I can also hear the program material on the disk while this is happening.

DVD-A and DVD-V play fine all the time. CDs play fine all the time as do MP3s either on a disk or a memory stick (played through the Oppo's USB port).

But SACDs sometimes (not all the time, and this is what makes me crazy) do this weird tone. If I power down both the AVR and the disk player and fire them back up, the problem goes away.

It's frustrating as it seems totally random. It'll be fine one day, and then, another day, with the same disk, it'll play that f*#king tone. I can go from DVD-A to SACD and hear it one day and then, another time, go from the same DVD-A to the same SACD and there won't be any problem.

Anyone else ever encounter this, and, if you have, were you able to correct it? It's not a show stopper, but it sure as heck is annoying when it happens.

Thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

Every once in a while, when I drop an SACD into my Oppo DV-980H, it fires up and starts playing a weird high-pitched tone. I don't know how high it is, but it's pretty high and really annoying. I play SACDs via DSD over HDMI 1.2 through my Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS. I can also hear the program material on the disk while this is happening.

DVD-A and DVD-V play fine all the time. CDs play fine all the time as do MP3s either on a disk or a memory stick (played through the Oppo's USB port).

But SACDs sometimes (not all the time, and this is what makes me crazy) do this weird tone. If I power down both the AVR and the disk player and fire them back up, the problem goes away.

It's frustrating as it seems totally random. It'll be fine one day, and then, another day, with the same disk, it'll play that f*#king tone. I can go from DVD-A to SACD and hear it one day and then, another time, go from the same DVD-A to the same SACD and there won't be any problem.

Anyone else ever encounter this, and, if you have, were you able to correct it? It's not a show stopper, but it sure as heck is annoying when it happens.

Thanks.

Your problem I think is at its core a problem of DSD conversion.

DSD is not PCM based. I don't think your receiver has a DSD decoder. The manual does not say it it does.

Now to your OPPO player. Page 48 of your manual is the key. You can set your HDMI output DSD over HDMI or set it to auto, and it will output PCM at the highest bit rate supported by the format.

See what your OPPO HDMI audio is set to output now. Is it set to auto or DSD?

Now you can see if your receiver has a DSD decoder by setting your OPPO to output DSD over HDMI. If you hear nothing you have no DSD decoder in your receiver, and I don't think you have.

Now more bad news, your receiver can not receive PCM higher than 96 KHz and down converts it to 48 kHz anyway.

Now the key to your problem is a fine print foot note on page 30, which says your receiver may make noises when receiving a signal from a non PCM based source via HDMI. It does not say why this happens. The OPPO manual is unclear at what the sampling rate of the PCM bit stream is after conversion to PCM. My guess is that it is 192 kHz. This probably causes a problem for your receiver. The foot note on page 30 tells you to use another input source if you have the trouble you are experiencing.

So your only option with your gear is to use the multichannel analog outputs of your OPPO player. According to your OPPO player manual,, the DSD is converted from DSD to PCM before analog conversion. This is because the OPPO player allows for bass management from the analog outputs. The dirty little secret is that DSD does not allow for signal processing without PCM conversion.

Even receivers that have DSD decoders only allow you to listen directly from the DSD decoder if your forgo all signal processing. If you want signal processing you have to allow the receiver to do a PCM conversion first.

The only way to listen to DSD direct is to set up a DIY solution to do speaker leveling and bass management in the analog domain, between a pre/pro and power amps.

So your best bet is to do what your manual advises and select the analog multichannel outs on your OPPO and make the analog connections.

By the way that high pitched digital artifact could well burn out your tweeters, so I would make the change.

 

[cwall99]

Your problem I think is at its core a problem of DSD conversion.

DSD is not PCM based. I don't think your receiver has a DSD decoder. The manual does not say it it does.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it does because when I play SACD, the receiver's display shows a message that reads "SACD Direct" and, when talking to the guys up at the shop where I bought the receiver, they said that when playing DSD sources, the receiver will show "SACD Direct" in the display.

I could have my head up my butt on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm sending DSD from my Oppo to my receiver (especially since my Oppo's set up menus indicate that's what I'm outputting.

Now to your OPPO player. Page 48 of your manual is the key. You can set your HDMI output DSD over HDMI or set it to auto, and it will output PCM at the highest bit rate supported by the format.

See what your OPPO HDMI audio is set to output now. Is it set to auto or DSD?

Now you can see if your receiver has a DSD decoder by setting your OPPO to output DSD over HDMI. If you hear nothing you have no DSD decoder in your receiver, and I don't think you have.

I have my Oppo set that way and am definitely hearing audio from an SACD as I type this.

Now more bad news, your receiver can not receive PCM higher than 96 KHz and down converts it to 48 kHz anyway.

Now the key to your problem is a fine print foot note on page 30, which says your receiver may make noises when receiving a signal from a non PCM based source via HDMI. It does not say why this happens. The OPPO manual is unclear at what the sampling rate of the PCM bit stream is after conversion to PCM. My guess is that it is 192 kHz. This probably causes a problem for your receiver. The foot note on page 30 tells you to use another input source if you have the trouble you are experiencing.

So your only option with your gear is to use the multichannel analog outputs of your OPPO player. According to your OPPO player manual,, the DSD is converted from DSD to PCM before analog conversion. This is because the OPPO player allows for bass management from the analog outputs. The dirty little secret is that DSD does not allow for signal processing without PCM conversion.

Even receivers that have DSD decoders only allow you to listen directly from the DSD decoder if your forgo all signal processing. If you want signal processing you have to allow the receiver to do a PCM conversion first.

I don't have any problems listening to the DSD signal direct. It's weird, because I am getting what I think is DSD over 5.1 when listening to 5.1 SACDs (e.g. Pink Floyd's DSOTM and David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust). Like I said above, my receiver displays "SACD Direct" when playing SACD sources.

The only way to listen to DSD direct is to set up a DIY solution to do speaker leveling and bass management in the analog domain, between a pre/pro and power amps.

So your best bet is to do what your manual advises and select the analog multichannel outs on your OPPO and make the analog connections.

By the way that high pitched digital artifact could well burn out your tweeters, so I would make the change.

Man, that was an awesome response, and I'm really grateful for all the research and experience you clearly put into it. That was way more than I was expecting to get back (despite my count of messages posted, I haven't really asked that many, if any, techie questions. So you blew my doors off with that response.

Here's the goofy thing - I always shut my playback off as soon as I hear that weird tone. Having heard it under all sorts of listening conditions, every time I put in an SACD, I'm ready to shut the stupid thing down when it starts playing, so I'm not listening to it for more than a second or two.

But, when it does happen, I shut down both my AVR and my Oppo, power them back up, and all is well. They sound freaking awesome.

It's really odd.

But thanks for the very specific page references in the owner's manuals. I'll spend some time reading and experimenting.

Great post!!!!

 

[TLS Guy]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it does because when I play SACD, the receiver's display shows a message that reads "SACD Direct" and, when talking to the guys up at the shop where I bought the receiver, they said that when playing DSD sources, the receiver will show "SACD Direct" in the display.

I could have my head up my butt on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm sending DSD from my Oppo to my receiver (especially since my Oppo's set up menus indicate that's what I'm outputting.

Now to your OPPO player. Page 48 of your manual is the key. You can set your HDMI output DSD over HDMI or set it to auto, and it will output PCM at the highest bit rate supported by the format.

See what your OPPO HDMI audio is set to output now. Is it set to auto or DSD?



I have my Oppo set that way and am definitely hearing audio from an SACD as I type this.




I don't have any problems listening to the DSD signal direct. It's weird, because I am getting what I think is DSD over 5.1 when listening to 5.1 SACDs (e.g. Pink Floyd's DSOTM and David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust). Like I said above, my receiver displays "SACD Direct" when playing SACD sources.





Man, that was an awesome response, and I'm really grateful for all the research and experience you clearly put into it. That was way more than I was expecting to get back (despite my count of messages posted, I haven't really asked that many, if any, techie questions. So you blew my doors off with that response.

Here's the goofy thing - I always shut my playback off as soon as I hear that weird tone. Having heard it under all sorts of listening conditions, every time I put in an SACD, I'm ready to shut the stupid thing down when it starts playing, so I'm not listening to it for more than a second or two.

But, when it does happen, I shut down both my AVR and my Oppo, power them back up, and all is well. They sound freaking awesome.

It's really odd.

But thanks for the very specific page references in the owner's manuals. I'll spend some time reading and experimenting.

Great post!!!!

I still suspect your receiver does not have a DSD decoder. DSD is not listed in the manual as something it decodes. It lists a lot of other things. HDMI is two way, and there may be redirect of the player. The HDMI direct does not say that there is a DSD conversion in the player. Onkyo for instance in their manuals identify clearly which receivers have DSD decoders.

I know one thing, that if you have any signal processing (like speaker leveling and or bass management) listening to SACD there is a DSD to PCM conversion going on somewhere. That is about the only thing I can be certain of. I thought the Pioneer manual was dreadful, unhelpful and vague. I have a strong suspicion that wherever the DSD/PCM conversion is occurring, that it is not always going smoothly.

That footnote of fine print on page 30 makes me think Pioneer know they have some sort of "iffy" handshake with this HDMI application.

 

[Adam]

Hi. Have you checked to make sure that you have the latest firmware on the receiver and disc player?

There is a note from Pioneer about a free firmware update to address audio/video issues with HDMI connections. The issues don't specifically state what you are experiencing, but it may be worth looking into.

You can check the firmware on your Oppo by doing the following (from Oppo's FAQ page):

To check the firmware version, please eject the disc tray. While the TV display is showing the OPPO logo screen and the "OPEN" message, press the "OSD" button on the remote control. The current firmware version will be displayed.

The latest non-beta version for the 980 can be downloaded from here.

Also, what setting do you have the "SACD Gain" (page 66 of the manual) at on the Pioneer? If it's not at "0 dB", you might want to try setting it there because the manual suggests that if you get distortion during SACD playback.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi. Have you checked to make sure that you have the latest firmware on the receiver and disc player?

There is a note from Pioneer about a free firmware update to address audio/video issues with HDMI connections. The issues don't specifically state what you are experiencing, but it may be worth looking into.

You can check the firmware on your Oppo by doing the following (from Oppo's FAQ page):

The latest non-beta version for the 980 can be downloaded from here.

Also, what setting do you have the "SACD Gain" (page 66 of the manual) at on the Pioneer? If it's not at "0 dB", you might want to try setting it there because the manual suggests that if you get distortion during SACD playback.

I think that is a good idea to check firmware updates. I think we both agree this is a software problem. He is not getting distortion, but a nasty noise conversion artifact. So I don't think this is a gain issue.

 

[cwall99]

Wow, thanks to both of you. I checked that link to the Pioneer firmware upgrade, and my question is, "How can I determine if my AVR is affected?" You guys don't need to address that as my dealer is less than two miles away and I love stopping by there to ask them questions (and listen to their really expensive set-ups).

I will also check the Oppo firmware version (as soon as my daughter's done watching Wall-e).

Thanks again. You guys are incredibly helpful.

 

[cwall99]

Oppo's service guys sent me an email (on a Sunday no less!!! that gets major points in my eyes). They're suggesting the following:

Sounds a lot like what happens when an AVR does not decode the SACD correctly. This can be due to not having a proper sync at the time of loading the disc. One way to test this is to set the player for PCM on the SACD over HDMI setting, and see if you still get this effect.​

So, tomorrow, when I have the house alone, I'll do some more testing.