Impressions of Salk SongTowers

Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
As I've said: I'm interested in seeing how the speakers sound: particularly the Veracity, which I think is beautiful to look at. I'm still hunting through the web site, but I suspect that in-home auditioning isn't really available on what appears to be a custom-build business... so I need to find a pair somewhere I can go listen to.
The best way to find some Salk speakers to listen to, is to ask on this forum, or read the Owners Audition List.
 
Quickley17

Quickley17

Audioholic
My 2 Cents on Salk SongTowers

Yesterday I spent about 2 and a half hours at Swerd’s house in Maryland listening to his Salk SongTower speakers. I brought my Polk bookshelf speakers (RTi 4, which I think is comparable now to the RTiA 1), as well as an assortment of music.

I listened to the first three tracks of Takk… (Takk…, Glosoli, Hoppipolla), by Sigur Ros, The Ecstasy of Gold and Call of the Ktulu on Metallica S&M, Rotten Apple from Jar of Flies by Alice In Chains, and Wish You Were Here and High Hopes from Echoes, by Pink Floyd. Additionally, I listened to Fanfare for the Common Man, which I believe was played by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra… Swerd would have to help me with that.

I don’t have my technical verbiage down so, bear with me, but what follows is my hacksaw version of a review.

Sigur Ros is very complex music that has a lot of different sounds all playing at the same time. Often it is very hard to distinguish the notes of an individual instrument when they move towards their very loud, very busy highs. My speakers totally lose it when this is happening and the best way to describe what is happening is an undirected cacophony of sound. My takeaway has always been that there is just too much going on for a cheap tweeter and one 5 inch driver to handle. After switching speakers, there were a few things I noticed. The cymbals and piano were much more localized, and what I believe to be the imaging of the speakers really had me picturing where the drums and piano were located on a stage. Another very noticeable thing with the Salk speakers was the irregularities of the recording. Swerd noticed this immediately, asking if the sound was supposed to be there, and it is something that I’ve heard in the songs before. In Glosoli, there are very noticeable sounds (maybe deficiencies in the recording, maybe purposeful) which the Salks brought out with impressive (and distracting) clarity. I thought that the Salk’s did a bit better job with the busyness of the highs in the songs, where I was able to pick up on individual instruments better than with my own speakers, but I think that there are times in some of the Sigur Ros songs that there is just way too much going on, and this also came through a bit on the Salks.

The Metallica is another busy selection, with the San Francisco Symphony playing at the same time as the band. This presents a few times where there are dueling sounds, and usually Lars Ulrich wins. The best thing I noticed during these tracks was that while the drums of the band dominated the sound for much of the time, the sounds of the symphony were still well defined, albeit mostly as background to what Lars Ulrich was doing. A very common theme was the ability of the Salks to present the material with a broad soundstage even when the songs reached their peaks. With my speakers, there seems to be a point where it all just sounds loud, and it sounds like everything was just coming at you. With the Salks, the sound seemed spread out, and the details were still present with Lars pounding on the bass drum furiously.

Rotten Apple is a far less complex song which was good because it helped to hear how the individual instruments sounded. More than a lot of rock/alternative songs, I think this is a song that shines because of its ability to be played loud with clarity, and this is something that the Salks did a very good job with. I thought it was great how well defined each instrument was and the mixture of Layne Staley and Jerry Cantrell’s voices was neat because you could hear the harmonization, but also pick out the individual vocals of each singer.

They may not have been Swerd’s favorites, but I thought that of the music I brought, the Pink Floyd tracks highlighted his speakers best. Listening to High Hopes, I could have possibly been convinced that the bell was tolling in the next room behind the speaker, and in the intro to Wish you were here, I loved how the slightly distorted (this is on purpose) guitar felt like it was 10 feet in front of me, just to the right which is ultimately joined by a guitar right in the middle. I could hear the drums slightly off center, and the amazing clarity of the song was impressive. The most interesting thing I noticed was David Gilmour’s voice in the song. Usually his accent comes through and he generally sings with a lot of clarity, but in this track, I could hear the gruffness of his voice, almost as if he had been suffering from a sore throat. Swerd discussed that this could be a function of the speaker design, but this was not a characteristic that I noticed in his voice in High Hopes, and I would say that it was actually the speakers bringing out the human flaws in his voice at the time (this is purely conjecture on my part).

Lastly, Fanfare for the Common Man, which is a piece I’d heard, but didn’t know where, was simply incredible. The dynamic range between the highs and lows in that track was something that I would guess many recordings simply don’t have, and the ability of the Salk’s to replicate that sound was fantastic. I can’t imagine how anyone would be left wanting for bass during this piece. Sure this isn’t going to be rattling the windows of the car 12 lanes away on the Beltway at rush hour, but I’d argue that the sound of T-Rex stomping in Jurassic Park wouldn’t even need a sub with these. I’m almost certain that there would have been multiple physical failures with my speakers had we played them at the levels we listened to Fanfare for the Common Man.

I really enjoyed these speakers, and I’m glad I got the opportunity to listen to them. I have a long road ahead in my search for speakers, but these are definitely large on my radar.
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
Quickley17 --Excellent review

Quickley17 --Excellent review ..I always wondered how Swerd's Salk Song towers sounded ---you helped me visualize.

Thanks,

Forest Man
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Matt

I enjoyed meeting you and hearing your music yesterday. Your rather vivid descriptions do them justice, not at all a hacksaw job :D.

The Fanfare for the Common Man recording was on this CD http://www.amazon.com/Copland-Appalachian-Spring-Fanfare-Common/dp/B000003CSW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1257192650&sr=1-1

What was interesting to me was how surprisingly good Matt's Polk RTi4s are. I expected typical low cost speakers with poorly damped boomy sounding bass and a hole in the midrange response where the crossover is. The Polks didn't do this. True they don't have strong bass response, but for small, low to moderate priced 2-way speakers, its better that they have an honest bass response than try to do something they really can't. Through the midrange, I thought they were very nice. On Rotten Apple they put out a good sounding image of the guitar and singer. I thought the tweeters were voiced a bit hot, but not offensively so. Where they were outclassed by the SongTowers (certainly not a fair comparison considering cost) was with the complex busy music passages that Matt played.

Stereophile reviewed these speakers and their measurements illustrate, in figure 4, the bass rolloff below 100 Hz, and the general rise in the treble with a broad peak centered around 10 kHz. Matt did you know that your Polks are 4 ohm speakers? See figure 1.

What Matt didn't mention, but impressed me a lot, was that he has actually met Booker T. Jones!! Google that name, if you don't know what he is known for.
 
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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Great Review

Matt did you know that your Polks are 4 ohm speakers?
They do dip to 4 ohms but mostly stay enough above that for Polk to call them an 8 ohm speaker. Being corrected by a monkey must be humiliating. :D Sorry, I just had to say it. :) Joking, right? ;)

Fine review, Matt! I'm going to have to dig up my copy of Echoes. Is Swerd not a Floyd fan? I'm curious about what is powering the Song Towers. Even the name is cool ... as if I didn't have enough audio related hang ups to work out. Still, it's great to hear about these listening impressions and meetings. It's good for the hobby. :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
They do dip to 4 ohms but mostly stay enough above that for Polk to call them an 8 ohm speaker. Being corrected by a monkey must be humiliating. :D Sorry, I just had to say it. :) Joking, right? ;)

Fine review, Matt! I'm going to have to dig up my copy of Echoes. Is Swerd not a Floyd fan? I'm curious about what is powering the Song Towers. Even the name is cool ... as if I didn't have enough audio related hang ups to work out. Still, it's great to hear about these listening impressions and meetings. It's good for the hobby. :)
Any monkey that corrects me is gonna have to be on his toes


Matt was curious if the SongTowers were difficult to drive. Both STs and Polks go as low as 4 ohms. So, guess which is harder to drive? (Hint, they're both easy to drive, but the STs were louder at the same volume setting.) Alex, my amp is named in my signature line. It delivers 200 wpc at 8 ohms and 350 at 4 ohms.

SongTower Impedance


Polk RTi4 Impedance
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
... guess which is harder to drive?
I think the answer would depend on whether the amp was amp restricted or power supply restricted. I know you can have an efficient speaker that is tough to drive at certain frequencies and will clip an amp due to a combination of low ohms and high phase angle ... or are you giving me the answer? :confused:

I sense a trap. :eek:
My speaker kung fu is getting weak. :D

Alex, my amp is named in my signature line.
I knew that! Slipped my mind though. It's been a while since I stalked you. :)
 
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BigSkreen

BigSkreen

Junior Audioholic
My $0.02

Swerd was kind enough to take time out of his Sunday to let me hear his Salk SongTowers. I wanted to post my impressions, thoughts, etc.

I currently own a pair of JBL Northridge N series fronts with a matching center (at least I think that is what they are). I bought them sometime in 2001 or so while I was still in college. They have a 10" sub in the fronts. I'm running a pair of speakers I got for free as my rears. The brand label says Aero on the back. I don't like my front sound stage. For years I underpowered the pair (probably still am considering that sub). Also the center channel was of the same series but is not timbre matched to the fronts. The rears are rears. They are waaaay too big to be surrounds and I need to replace them with something a little more bookshelf sized.

I've got to my local "higher end" home theater store to listen to what they have but I've never really demoed them because I have never brought in my own source material. They have they typical stuff like Diane Krall. I was able to A/B Klipsch and B&Ws (I think they were XT-4s I also got to hear the ones that are like 3.5k for a center but lets stick to the ones that were $1400 a pair). In my opinion the Klipsch were harsh in the high end. It seemed to me overblown. Then the B&Ws then sounded fantastic. I thought they seemed accurate without being too terrible. So I liked the sound and keep in mind up until this point these are the most expensive speakers I have ever heard. The big ding on the B&Ws are the finish. I can't spend that kind of money and not get something I like.

Enter AH where I see tons of speaker reviews of brands I have never heard of or some that I remember from my car speaker days. So I have been looking hard at Axiom M80s and was considering AV123 but not anymore. Then I see Tom's blind speaker test and suddenly these Salk speakers are mentioned. I figure I'll start looking since like I posted in the other thread I'd like to add a sub and start replacing my speakers. I did a little searching and low and behold Swerd is in my area and has Salks. I've had issues finding someone with the Axiom's in a similar set up. So Swerd and I decide on a Sunday afternoon meetup.

Swerd welcomes me into his beautiful home walks me into the living room and bam there are the Salks. My first thought is wow I wonder which special finish he got. They come in standard and premium finishes. I asked him and this is the standard finish!!!! Better than I had expected. So the first impression is good. Then we talk a little about the background and the design of the speakers (I really dig this behind the scenes stuff).

Then I pop in Battlestar Galactica Season 1 Sound track. I listen to a few songs and the first thing I think is that is a lot of bass. I can't emphasize enough how much bass came from these things. I was tempted to start looking under furniture for a hidden sub or butt kickers. Besides the bass I thought the highs aren't bad but they aren't great. Then I popped in the 3rd Season BSG CD and the highs and mids were extremely clear. I think the issues with the first are issues with the mastering of the CD. I listed to a few others Alicia Keys sounded throating and full, Linkin Park was clear and had a bass hit that scared my wife (yes she went with me on my little adventure and enjoyed it). Swerd put in some Aerosmith that showed that the STs can really push volume and still put out clear highs, mids, and lows. My wife listened to the Moulin Rouge soundtrack which had a range of female voices all done superbly. Swerd played fanfare for the common man and the sound stage was impressive. The cymbals clanged and I felt like my head was between them. I heard certain instruments come forward. My wife noted that she like listening to them standing up as the vertical off axis sounded better to her. I think that she probably thinks they are a little bright but I tend to favor that.

I'm looking for a 5.1 HT so that 2 CH stuff were all things I picked so that I could listen to only the STs and not any of Swerd's other speakers or sub. I still wanted to try out a DVD so I choose Iron Man. The scene where he first flys the red and gold suit. The detail I heard in the STs were amazing. I could hear detailed footsteps and the shells hitting the ground. I was absolutely blown away by what I heard.

I also wanted to hear a SongCenter but he doesn't have one of those. I did get to listen to the DIY speakers in his signature that are cousins of the SongSurround (which is very similar to the SongCenter) which are a Dennis Murphy design. I was very impressed especially for DIY how good they sounded.

In short (HAHA I know) I think the STs are very capable of producing accurate, detailed sound while putting out a surprising amount of bass. This has me rethinking my subwoofer plans because of the sound. The fit and finish of the standard speakers is something that really needs to be seen. I think I could really dig a hobby where I can sit around for 3 hours and listen to music and movies. I'm sorry that I couldn't take Swerd's ST's home with me but Jim Salk will be getting a call from me as soon as me and the wife pick out our finish. :D

Thanks again to Swerd for being such a gracious and extremely knowledgeable host.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
BigSkreen

Thanks for all the kind words. You and your wife were a lot of fun, and besides, you brought my favorite beer - Sam Adams :D.

As far as what to expect from the SongCenters, you heard the smaller 2-way speakers that I had built and how "related" they sound to the STs. You should find the SongCenter is from the same family.

If I keep demoing these speakers to more people, I'm gonna need a SongCenter… yeah, that's what I'll tell my wife.

Please keep us updated with your speaker quest and let us know what type of speaker and finish you pick. Best of luck.
 
M

mibson

Audioholic
Salk Song Towers vs Axiom m80?

I am in the process of arranging a listen of the Song Towers(Jim got back to me fast!), also Im very likely going to test out the m80s. I do have a few questions...

My room is quite large 20 x 36 feet and cathedraled to 12 feet.

2 channel stereo is my priority.

The song towers have great reviews, but will they be loud enough with enough handling capacity as the m80s? I plan to use a good power amp...

Sound quality is important but I also need to be able to crank up TOOL very loud.

Any comments? Speaker suggestions?
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
I am in the process of arranging a listen of the Song Towers(Jim got back to me fast!), also Im very likely going to test out the m80s. I do have a few questions...

My room is quite large 20 x 36 feet and cathedraled to 12 feet.

2 channel stereo is my priority.

The song towers have great reviews, but will they be loud enough with enough handling capacity as the m80s? I plan to use a good power amp...

Sound quality is important but I also need to be able to crank up TOOL very loud.

Any comments? Speaker suggestions?
JMO, no contest... the salks and since this is salk thread, post your questions about the two in the thread you started which i had mike merge for ya;)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I am in the process of arranging a listen of the Song Towers(Jim got back to me fast!), also Im very likely going to test out the m80s. I do have a few questions...

My room is quite large 20 x 36 feet and cathedraled to 12 feet.

2 channel stereo is my priority.

The song towers have great reviews, but will they be loud enough with enough handling capacity as the m80s? I plan to use a good power amp...

Sound quality is important but I also need to be able to crank up TOOL very loud.

Any comments? Speaker suggestions?
You'll find out first hand soon. Let us know what you hear.

More important than how large the overall dimensions of a room are, is how far away from the speakers you will be when you listen. Is your standard listening position more than 15 feet away from the speakers?

I also think that with cathedral ceilings and possibly distant walls (depending on where you place the speakers), you may not suffer the usual bass standing waves that occur when reflections from parallel surfaces add together or cancel each other out. That could work out to your advantage.

How much amp power will you have?
 
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M

mibson

Audioholic
Salks?

Well, the problem is my room acoustics are unique and if/when I hear the Song Towers it will not be in my home....

I will be about 13 feet from my speakers when I listen, but this could be adjusted anywhere from 10-18 feet.

I am going to spend alot of time sound treating the room, but this will take time. My walls and ceiling are wood, with 3 massive wood beams across the ceiling. As it is, this will be very reflective, but with the 3 large beams I have alot to work with. (Im just learning about sound treatments but if I sound treat these beams, and walls, Ill be off to a great start)

I think Ill get the XPA-2 (TWO CHANNEL AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER
250 watts RMS x 2 into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS x 2 into 4 ohms) but Im still researching. Perhaps Berhinger or Yamaha...

I cant understand how the Salks could be loud enough for me, but again I dont know alot about speakers. The fact that the M80s have two drivers of each seems to be a good thing for volume (Ive read these speakers can handle alot of power)...

I did find PSB PLATINUM T6 for a great price, but these do put me over budget so I have to check with the wife....
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
I will be about 13 feet from my speakers when I listen, but this could be adjusted anywhere from 10-18 feet.

I am going to spend alot of time sound treating the room, but this will take time. My walls and ceiling are wood, with 3 massive wood beams across the ceiling. As it is, this will be very reflective, but with the 3 large beams I have alot to work with. (Im just learning about sound treatments but if I sound treat these beams, and walls, Ill be off to a great start)

www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm


I cant understand how the Salks could be loud enough for me, but again I dont know alot about speakers. The fact that the M80s have two drivers of each seems to be a good thing for volume (Ive read these speakers can handle alot of power)...

I did find PSB PLATINUM T6 for a great price, but these do put me over budget so I have to check with the wife....
The salks will dig deep and give good spl. Research "quater wave length" transmission line speakers;)
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Well, the problem is my room acoustics are unique and if/when I hear the Song Towers it will not be in my home....

I will be about 13 feet from my speakers when I listen, but this could be adjusted anywhere from 10-18 feet.

I am going to spend alot of time sound treating the room, but this will take time. My walls and ceiling are wood, with 3 massive wood beams across the ceiling. As it is, this will be very reflective, but with the 3 large beams I have alot to work with. (Im just learning about sound treatments but if I sound treat these beams, and walls, Ill be off to a great start)

I think Ill get the XPA-2 (TWO CHANNEL AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER
250 watts RMS x 2 into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS x 2 into 4 ohms) but Im still researching. Perhaps Berhinger or Yamaha...

I cant understand how the Salks could be loud enough for me, but again I dont know alot about speakers. The fact that the M80s have two drivers of each seems to be a good thing for volume (Ive read these speakers can handle alot of power)...

I did find PSB PLATINUM T6 for a great price, but these do put me over budget so I have to check with the wife....
An amp of that power will be more than plenty for SongTowers. I haven't heard the M80s and don't know what kind of power they need or do well with, but I'd be very surprised if the XPA-2 was not enough for them as well.

The amp I use delivers 200 wpc at 8 ohms and about 350 wpc at 4 ohms. It is said that SongTowers do well with at least 50 watts, so 200 watts is probably overkill.

As for the rest of your thoughts about…

Whether speakers will be loud enough… Unless they are identical drivers, don't assume that two drivers will always be louder. Sound quality is not the same as sound quantity.

Or room treatments… wait until you have speakers before deciding anything about treating the room.

I think you may have read too much. Time to do some listening :D.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
A review of Salk Songtowers along with an amp, the UltraValve, made by Audio by Van Alstine was recently published by a print magazine, in the August issue of The Absolute Sound. The reviewer, D!ck Olsher (the odd spelling is required to diguise his name from the AH language nanny), was highly complementary about both amp and speakers.

I've always thought of TAS as something evil because they often seem to push extremely high priced gear and get very subjective in their reviews while avoiding any discussion of specs or measurements. I guess they haven't really changed, but they have finally figured out that SongTowers are outstanding speakers :D. So, I'll overlook their past record, and proudly point out the review.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The Absolute Sound, in its latest issue, named the Salk SongTower QWT as a winner of its annual Editor's Choice Award. Congratulations to Salk.

Please note that Audioholics saw fit to single out these speakers for similar awards in 2008, two years earlier!
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The other day, I finally ordered a SongCenter to go with my 4-year old SongTowers. My birthday is coming up, and my wife (innocently) asked what I'd like. My response was "I don't know". At the time, that was true :rolleyes:.

Later that same day, the answer hit me in the face. Jim Salk has some ST and SC cabinets, already veneered in cherry, waiting for buyers without the usual 2-month or longer wait. So I jumped on it.

This seemed like a perfect opportunity to shamelessly bump my favorite thread :D.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Congrats.

Then next year, it will be some Salk surround speakers.:D
 
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