Sensi's System 2

[MidnightSensi]

Okay, not done yet but I snapped some shots. I'm going to get plates and clean up those wires (going to put a painted white c-channel down there to hide them but still be able to tinker). The front shot things look a little crooked, but its just because of lense distortion (wide angle).

Little short of some amplification there, since I needed that CC2800 that used to be in there for another rack... but I have a Crest CD2000 I'm going to put in there.

Been a bit slow putting it together since my wrist got screwed up. Per example I needed a stand for my center channel, but the ones I had were all too tall, so I cut off the top and shortened one, then welded the shelf back on. Only problem is I can't use my right hand because its in a cast, so I had to stick weld with just my left hand. The end result is a bit warped, but it works, considering I'm not even a good welder when both my hands work.

I have a bunch more pictures from construction I will put up soon, I wanted to get a few up quick since I said I would a while back.

Special thanks to all the members who have helped me, especially rmk, thanks for all the help and time.

After I get the amps in, the next thing is going to be some room treatments.


By the way, this was my system when I first joined AH:

http://digitalnoesis.org/ah_sized/old.JPG

 

[Alex2507]

I see this and all I can think is that somehow lsiberian took over Paradim Dawg's body.

BTW, RMK's influence is evident. Looks great. I like the theater for two deal. It says, "Your friend can watch but she's gonna hafta stand."

 

[rmk]

I helped you. It was the other way around my friend.
I wish I had taken your recommendation on the pro rack system. My shade tree wood rack is a PITA.
The room /gear look really good and I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I like the theater for two deal. It says, "Your friend can watch but she's gonna hafta stand."

Haha!

I helped you. It was the other way around my friend.
I wish I had taken your recommendation on the pro rack system. My shade tree wood rack is a PITA.
The room /gear look really good and I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.

Thanks man.

Next is going to be some bass traps I think. I got some noticable standing waves along the rear wall. I might look into those traps like you have, how'd those work out? I want something I can move. The rear corner, by the drapes, seems to get standing waves regardless of subwoofer position, so I think a white tower there might blend in and be worth a shot?

 

[rmk]

Haha!





Thanks man.

Next is going to be some bass traps I think. I got some noticable standing waves along the rear wall. I might look into those traps like you have, how'd those work out? I want something I can move. The rear corner, by the drapes, seems to get standing waves regardless of subwoofer position, so I think a white tower there might blend in and be worth a shot?

I was told to look into tube traps (half rounds) for more effective LF trapping and some HF diffusion on my back wall. I'm actually looking to replace my GIK 244 and Pillar "bass traps" with some tube traps but there aren't many sources (except crazy expensive) so still looking.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I was told to look into tube traps (half rounds) for more effective LF trapping and some HF diffusion on my back wall. I'm actually looking to replace my GIK 244 and Pillar "bass traps" with some tube traps but there aren't many sources (except crazy expensive) so still looking.

Are you finding the pillars to not be handling the standing waves at all or just underwhelmingly effective?

Some of my room problems EQing will handle, but the standing waves and such I'll need to handle with playing with placement and treatments.

I'm with you that I don't want to spend a ton on treatments, especially since I don't really see anything I'm drooling over.

Maybe I'll need to do some DIY work and then pay for an upholsterer to finish it? Looks like most of the stuff is made from rigid foam. I'll start sniffing around, I know some foam distributors, I'll see if they sell to anyone using stuff to make traps or have any documentation on their stuffs absorption coefficients at different densities.

 

[jamie2112]

Sup buddy? Looks freakin great , wish we were comin to FLA...closest would be NC....I still love the chairs Sensi...........

 

[jostenmeat]

Very nice Midnight. Big improvement! I'm with rmk, I dig the rack. I like how it's not overbearingly tall either, compared to some I've seen when browsing. Can you list the model and/or link please? Also, all of your speakers are MK? Can you list model #s (they're all from same lineup?) How about the subs? Thanks, just pleasantly curious. Love the front three setup. WTG.

Next is going to be some bass traps I think. I got some noticable standing waves along the rear wall. I might look into those traps like you have, how'd those work out? I want something I can move. The rear corner, by the drapes, seems to get standing waves regardless of subwoofer position, so I think a white tower there might blend in and be worth a shot?

Two ideas that come to mind are either simply leaning panels against the rear wall, and stowing away during non-use (I put a very large panel sideways propped on sidewall couch for 2ch listening in my asymmetrical LR), or perhaps monster tritraps like those made by GIK, lying horiz at floor/back, and again remove during non-use.

If the height works out, you can do panels and/or tritraps vertically at front left at rear left corners. Bass hits, splashes out, and will inevitably be collecting at those corners (which are asymmetrically closer too, of course).

I'm with you that I don't want to spend a ton on treatments, especially since I don't really see anything I'm drooling over.

Maybe I'll need to do some DIY work and then pay for an upholsterer to finish it? Looks like most of the stuff is made from rigid foam. I'll start sniffing around, I know some foam distributors, I'll see if they sell to anyone using stuff to make traps or have any documentation on their stuffs absorption coefficients at different densities.

For very nice looking traps, Real Traps are sweet, but considerably more expensive. They use OC 705, but I'm not sure how they make the difference between HF (high freq) and regular traps. Perhaps the membrane.

For even better looking traps, the custom printed ones from GIK; send them a photo, and your acoustical products will instead look like artwork. Or you can DIY that too.

For absorption coefficients, I remember nibhaz posted this, here ya go:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

(edit: don't know how this data was collected, but a word of warning regarding measurements: you can't compare panel performance, unless they were done in the same room, same equipment, same day, etc. I'm sure that makes sense, but it could be easy to forget also.)

In fact, he's a good resource as far as members here, and here are his posts in the acoustics subforum, hope link works?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3949688

I learned about Ready Acoustics for DIY made easier from WmAx, and you can recognize them in his recent photos.

I use a mix of Real Traps and GIK, the first of which I landed double digit off Audiogon for half off (crazy guy doing Rives 3).

I have just a couple of comparative photos if you want me to send them to you.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Lookin' good Sensi!

What happened to your wrist?

 

[MidnightSensi]

Very nice Midnight. Big improvement! I'm with rmk, I dig the rack. I like how it's not overbearingly tall either, compared to some I've seen when browsing. Can you list the model and/or link please?

Cheers!

The rack is a Middle Atlantic WRK-24-32. 24U, 32" deep. They work good for little theaters, because with the 32" depth you can mount units on either side. Like, on the rear rails I have my switch for the network.

http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/gang/wrkg.htm


Then seperately you buy the sidewalls and wheels (I have fine floor wheels, which are just a rubbery material). The sidewalls just pull off exposing the frame and then you can easily wire everything up. For items without ears, you can order faceplates cut from them, like my PS3 has.

I've tried a lot of racks, and, in my opinion, Middle Atlantic is the only way to go.

Also, all of your speakers are MK? Can you list model #s (they're all from same lineup?) How about the subs? Thanks, just pleasantly curious. Love the front three setup. WTG.

Oh whoops, I forgot to say. It's a heins 57... The L and R are M&K S-150s, the rears are M&K 750s. The center channel is a Danley SH-Mini, and the subwoofers are Danley CS-30s. The fronts actually match extremely well, and I love the SH-Mini as a center because its off axis response is so good.

Two ideas that come to mind are either simply leaning panels against the rear wall, and stowing away during non-use (I put a very large panel sideways propped on sidewall couch for 2ch listening in my asymmetrical LR), or perhaps monster tritraps like those made by GIK, lying horiz at floor/back, and again remove during non-use.

If the height works out, you can do panels and/or tritraps vertically at front left at rear left corners. Bass hits, splashes out, and will inevitably be collecting at those corners (which are asymmetrically closer too, of course).



For very nice looking traps, Real Traps are sweet, but considerably more expensive. They use OC 705, but I'm not sure how they make the difference between HF (high freq) and regular traps. Perhaps the membrane.

For even better looking traps, the custom printed ones from GIK; send them a photo, and your acoustical products will instead look like artwork. Or you can DIY that too.

For absorption coefficients, I remember nibhaz posted this, here ya go:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

(edit: don't know how this data was collected, but a word of warning regarding measurements: you can't compare panel performance, unless they were done in the same room, same equipment, same day, etc. I'm sure that makes sense, but it could be easy to forget also.)

In fact, he's a good resource as far as members here, and here are his posts in the acoustics subforum, hope link works?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3949688

I learned about Ready Acoustics for DIY made easier from WmAx, and you can recognize them in his recent photos.

I use a mix of Real Traps and GIK, the first of which I landed double digit off Audiogon for half off (crazy guy doing Rives 3).

I have just a couple of comparative photos if you want me to send them to you.

Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I considered just removing them during none use. One of those rear doors is a walk in closet I use for storing speakers, cables, rack parts, amps and so forth.

What's the difference between the flat, box and tube traps?

OC 705, is that Owens Corning? Could I just buy that in sheets, epoxy it together to give it enough thickness to cut it into two triangles and then glue white acoustic/speaker grill cloth over it? Is there more to it than that?

Lookin' good Sensi!

What happened to your wrist?

Thanks!

I sprained it moving something. :/ Doesn't want to heal....

 

[jostenmeat]

Cheers!

The rack is a Middle Atlantic WRK-24-32. . . .

Thanks! If ever I get a rack, I will get a Middle Atlantic then. It does look a tad deeper than what I'd want, but still looks great overall. I have to admit I still am a little afraid of the cost . . . but I'm in no rush either.

Oh whoops, I forgot to say. It's a heins 57... The L and R are M&K S-150s, the rears are M&K 750s. The center channel is a Danley SH-Mini, and the subwoofers are Danley CS-30s. The fronts actually match extremely well, and I love the SH-Mini as a center because its off axis response is so good.

Ah, thanks. I know nothing really about these speakers, but sure would like to know more.

Yeah, I considered just removing them during none use. One of those rear doors is a walk in closet I use for storing speakers, cables, rack parts, amps and so forth.

I have to admit, even with just one panel (ok, it is like 30lbs IIRC, and the entire border is metal) it's not that fun to put it on/off the couch back all the time. If you can find something that works for you aesthetically, do it, if it allows you not to have to hassle. There was a guy who recently posted an extremely tastefully done treating, and his name is something like biznus or biz97 or something, but I don't look because I know he removed the photos. He had tritraps on the rear floor, among many other treatments, and it looked GREAT.

What's the difference between the flat, box and tube traps?

I don't know how tube traps work, but like rmk suggests, I'm thinking they are very low freq application. Between flat and box, it sounds stupid, but it's really just the shape. The towers rmk has are an aesthetic design, more stealth if you will, you can even put plants on top of them. GIK also sells table traps. RT even makes planter traps! lol

So, I think it's best to see what frequencies you are trying to dial down, and then go from there. Both GIK and RT give free advice, and their reps are regulars at different forums. b pape is the GIK man here, though Glenn stops in time to time. Ethan Winer is a regular at the AVS audio theory subforum.

You can simply email for samples of their fabrics, to see how well they match the room colors; I know I've done that already.

Since GIK stuff is so much lighter, and w/o metal borders, I might suggest those for removing/replacing, since it's easier and you won't scratch the walls, etc. And a fraction of the price.

OC 705, is that Owens Corning? Could I just buy that in sheets, epoxy it together to give it enough thickness to cut it into two triangles and then glue white acoustic/speaker grill cloth over it? Is there more to it than that?

Yes, Owens Corning. I know the 703 is supposed to be a lot cheaper. I'm not sure how they put em together, and am afraid of misinforming you. If DIY, fiberglass will be easier to work with for sure.

Thanks!

My pleasure; I do hope it helps, because I know others are more qualified in educating you.

OK, I decided to hunt around anyways. Here is Glenn Kuras (owner GIK) with his custom printed stuff. SWEET, if not $$$.

OK, this is biz97's post, with DELETED photos. I recommend you PM him and kindly ask to see, because it's very well done, and significantly treated at the same time.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=579179&postcount=11

 

[rmk]

Are you finding the pillars to not be handling the standing waves at all or just underwhelmingly effective?

Some of my room problems EQing will handle, but the standing waves and such I'll need to handle with playing with placement and treatments.

I'm with you that I don't want to spend a ton on treatments, especially since I don't really see anything I'm drooling over.

Maybe I'll need to do some DIY work and then pay for an upholsterer to finish it? Looks like most of the stuff is made from rigid foam. I'll start sniffing around, I know some foam distributors, I'll see if they sell to anyone using stuff to make traps or have any documentation on their stuffs absorption coefficients at different densities.

The effect of the GIK Pillar traps is subtle at best. Without a good RTA and mic I'm just guessing but that is SOP for me in this hobby. The Tube traps (done right) are frequency specific and include HF diffusion so can be ideal if you have clear goals and a good plan. Unfortunately my "I just want it to sound great" plan is a little lacking and I will be just as likely to do harm as good.

DIY makes sense with the above caveat.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Thanks! If ever I get a rack, I will get a Middle Atlantic then. It does look a tad deeper than what I'd want, but still looks great overall. I have to admit I still am a little afraid of the cost . . . but I'm in no rush either.

The advantage of the 32" deep is you can put non-essentials on the rear rails, such as cable modems, network switches, power conditioners and so forth. Sometimes with the 28" stuff can get kinda tight when you start putting accessories down the rear rails, and now with everything being a network device you basically need a switch in your rack.

The effect of the GIK Pillar traps is subtle at best. Without a good RTA and mic I'm just guessing but that is SOP for me in this hobby. The Tube traps (done right) are frequency specific and include HF diffusion so can be ideal if you have clear goals and a good plan. Unfortunately my "I just want it to sound great" plan is a little lacking and I will be just as likely to do harm as good.

DIY makes sense with the above caveat.

Good to know.

Even with a test CD and an spl meter we can find the frequency we need to treat in those corners. It's probably kind of like sizing a subwoofer port. I'll do some research and keep you updated on what I find, or maybe we'll get some others to chime in here.

I have some books on acoustics at home, I'll take a look in them tonight and see what I find.

 

[rmk]

Well I pulled the trigger on the Audyssey Pro Kit today. Kinda like getting an automatic transmission on the Porsche but as Clint (not Da-Bore) once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations".

 

[MidnightSensi]

Crest CD2000 came in today, here it is tossed in the rack. Hand hurts, so will report back tomorrow.

Please excuse my messy photo.

Well I pulled the trigger on the Audyssey Pro Kit today. Kinda like getting an automatic transmission on the Porsche but as Clint (not Da-Bore) once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations".

Cool~ That unit looks pretty nice, but I don't even see where to buy it? When's it coming?! I can't wait for the report.

 

[rmk]

Cool~ That unit looks pretty nice, but I don't even see where to buy it? When's it coming?! I can't wait for the report.

Messy, it looks great.

Regarding Audyssey, I believe you are referring to the Sound Equalizer hardware. That is pretty expensive and unnecessary for me cause I have the MultiEQ XT in my Integra SSP. I bought the Pro Kit and that is a mic/amp cables and PC based software that provides the more "advanced" Pro version of Audyssey.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well I pulled the trigger on the Audyssey Pro Kit today. Kinda like getting an automatic transmission on the Porsche but as Clint (not Da-Bore) once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations".

But doesn't the dual clutch automatic outperform the manual?

Weren't you supposed to get a Pro cal for your recent GTG? Not enough time for it to happen, or was it that you wanted to further tweak the calibration?

 

[MidnightSensi]

Bit of an update:

Got a chance to spend some time tuning a bit, I moved the subs a little outward and that helped a lot with the standing waves in the back, at the listening position they are gone to my ears. Haven't run the RTA yet off the dbX.

The Crest CD series is overkill for my room. With the subs so loud that its literally painful, it is just relaxing in the green. And since I generally only run the subwoofers +3dB hot or so, this is way more than I needed. The fan on the CD is also a lot louder than the CC, but I called Crest and they are sending me a fan replacement that should take care of it. So, in hindsight I should have just put my CC2800 back in there rather than the CD2000.

The Danleys are sounding amazing right now.

This weekend I'll spend more time tweaking/

Messy, it looks great.

Regarding Audyssey, I believe you are referring to the Sound Equalizer hardware. That is pretty expensive and unnecessary for me cause I have the MultiEQ XT in my Integra SSP. I bought the Pro Kit and that is a mic/amp cables and PC based software that provides the more "advanced" Pro version of Audyssey.

Ah! Maybe that'll be my birthday gift to myself if it works well for you. Sure is cheaper than those bloody treatments!

But doesn't the dual clutch automatic outperform the manual?

Weren't you supposed to get a Pro cal for your recent GTG? Not enough time for it to happen, or was it that you wanted to further tweak the calibration?

Doppelklutch/PDK weighs like 50-lbs, so its faster in a straight line but a good driver (i.e. not me) around the track would be faster with the lighter manual.

My Cayenne GTS has Tiptronic (blee), GT3 is manual. If I got a regular 911 I'd consider it with PDK. I test drove one and I'll admit it was pretty jazz.

Performance wise I'd be fine driving a pickup truck as much as a Porsche. I don't exactly race to Starbucks.

 

[rmk]

Here is an interesting take on Audyssey (Pro Kit) vs BFD on the IB sub forum.

 

[jostenmeat]

Here is an interesting take on Audyssey (Pro Kit) vs BFD on the IB sub forum.

That guy is a very cool guy, very smart, very nice. His dad was a Juilliard trained concert pianist too. He also likes electrostats just like I do.