External HPF for my sub?

J

jid

Audioholic Intern
Hi everyone,

I'm new here, very informative forum. I'm searching for a filter or something that can act as one for my subwoofer, I'd like to be able to cut off frequencies below a certain point that I could set (ie. 20Hz, 25Hz or 30Hz). I'm not good at DIY so I'm looking for something I can buy for around $100 or less if that is possible.

I've tried the search, I came across something called a Behringer 2310, would this work for my application? Any other products I should look at instead?

Thank you.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi everyone,

I'm new here, very informative forum. I'm searching for a filter or something that can act as one for my subwoofer, I'd like to be able to cut off frequencies below a certain point that I could set (ie. 20Hz, 25Hz or 30Hz). I'm not good at DIY so I'm looking for something I can buy for around $100 or less if that is possible.

I've tried the search, I came across something called a Behringer 2310, would this work for my application? Any other products I should look at instead?

Thank you.
Why do you think you need this? Telling us what equipment is in your system and a description of the room would help.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
I've tried the search, I came across something called a Behringer 2310, would this work for my application?
It'll work but it only has one option - 25 Hz. If you want variable, your best bet is the Reckhorn B1. It'll bust your $100 budget though, unless you can find a used one...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

jid

Audioholic Intern
Why do you think you need this? Telling us what equipment is in your system and a description of the room would help.
Equipment: SVS PB12-NSD, Denon 1610 rcvr, Axiom M22 mains.. 2.1 setup for now. Also, all equipment is not in the hosue yet so nothing is setup.

Room: Right now pretty big basement, moving in 2-3months into small-mid sized appartment.

Why do I think I need this?: I don't think I need it, I just want it. I've read about other pb12 owners using a high pass on their sub channel for music and now I want to try it. Provided I don't break the bank I want to play around with my gear.
 
J

jid

Audioholic Intern
It'll work but it only has one option - 25 Hz. If you want variable, your best bet is the Reckhorn B1. It'll bust your $100 budget though, unless you can find a used one...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Thank you, actually some place called Creative Sound Solutions has a B1 listed at $73CDN, that would fit my budget. A question though, would using something like this degrade the sound at all since it's another piece of gear in the chain?

I also found this: PFMOD (Parametric Filter Module) HP-Sub for $40 (h t t p://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=12)

Does that seem like a good device? Might be a bit more work than the Reckhorn since you have to remove jumpers. The site also says it is passive and doesn't introduce any noise or distortion. I don't understand what the "at 12db per octave" part means though. Could someone be so kind to explain?
 
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WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Why do I think I need this?: I don't think I need it, I just want it. I've read about other pb12 owners using a high pass on their sub channel for music and now I want to try it.
In that case 25 Hz is all you really need, so the Behringer crossover would do the trick.

Thank you, actually some place called Creative Sound Solutions has a B1 listed at $73CDN, that would fit my budget. A question though, would using something like this degrade the sound at all since it's another piece of gear in the chain?
No more than the Behringer would... Actually, the subwoofer channel is very forgiving. That's why the Behringer Feedback Destroyer, an equalizer you probably would not ever want to use for the main channels, works fine for subwoofers.

I also found this: PFMOD (Parametric Filter Module) HP-Sub for $40 (h t t p://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=12)

Does that seem like a good device? Might be a bit more work than the Reckhorn since you have to remove jumpers. The site also says it is passive and doesn't introduce any noise or distortion.
That one looks like a viable option as well. Only 12 dB/octave slope, but that's sufficient for what you want to do.

I don't understand what the "at 12db per octave" part means though. Could someone be so kind to explain?
It goes to how "fast" the signal attenuates. Basically, one octave when you're going up the frequency scale is double the starting point - e.g. 160 Hz is one octave above 80 Hz. Going down the frequency scale, one octave is half the starting point - e.g. 40 Hz is one octave below 80 Hz.

The slope is how far the signal drops one octave past the starting frequency. Using 80 Hz as the designated frequency, a 12 dB/octave slope means that at 40 Hz the signal has dropped 12 dB. So, if you played sine waves at those two frequencies and you measured 85 dB at 80 Hz, you would get a 73 dB reading at 40 Hz.

Most crossovers and HP filters these days use 24-dB slopes, which are much better for dividing between a sub and the mains. For HP filters, the most common use is to protect the sub from over driving (maxing out) below its tuning frequency. Naturally, a 24-dB slope would do a much better job at that than a 12-dB slope.

But for what you want, for music listening, all you're trying to do is attenuate the lowest frequencies so that they don't overwhelm and obscure the detail that might be present in the upper frequencies. So a 12 dB/octave slope will be fine.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Equipment: SVS PB12-NSD, Denon 1610 rcvr, Axiom M22 mains.. 2.1 setup for now. Also, all equipment is not in the hosue yet so nothing is setup.

Room: Right now pretty big basement, moving in 2-3months into small-mid sized appartment.

Why do I think I need this?: I don't think I need it, I just want it. I've read about other pb12 owners using a high pass on their sub channel for music and now I want to try it. Provided I don't break the bank I want to play around with my gear.
If you haven't even listened to the system yet, why not wait until you have had a chance to evaluate it before adding something that may remove some of the signal? A filter like this is a solution to a problem, not a typical addition or feature of a system.

Their website includes this:
"Note: Tuned for mid-sized rooms, providing flat powerful response with enhanced bandwidth uniformity. In-room extension, with corner placement, will typically yield 3-5Hz greater linear extension than indicated. Results will vary based on room size, seat distance from your SVS, and subwoofer location."

The rated response is "+/-3dB 18Hz-200hz anechoic extension". If the crossover has a 25Hz crossover frequency, I doubt the effect will be audible with most music, especially if the sub isn't placed in a corner of a mid-sized apartment. It may be audible to others in the building, though.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I'm pretty sure the SVS sub has a highpass filter built in. But don't quote me on that.

The reckhorn is a good piece of equipment, but I like the elemental designs one because it includes a couple of eq filters.
 
J

jid

Audioholic Intern
If you haven't even listened to the system yet, why not wait until you have had a chance to evaluate it before adding something that may remove some of the signal? A filter like this is a solution to a problem, not a typical addition or feature of a system.

Their website includes this:
"Note: Tuned for mid-sized rooms, providing flat powerful response with enhanced bandwidth uniformity. In-room extension, with corner placement, will typically yield 3-5Hz greater linear extension than indicated. Results will vary based on room size, seat distance from your SVS, and subwoofer location."

The rated response is "+/-3dB 18Hz-200hz anechoic extension". If the crossover has a 25Hz crossover frequency, I doubt the effect will be audible with most music, especially if the sub isn't placed in a corner of a mid-sized apartment. It may be audible to others in the building, though.
I understand all that, thanks for trying to help me save money.. but I think my compulsiveness will get the better of me. Truth is I don't know 100% why others have had positive results in doing this, it could be they simply suffered from some anomoly in their room that was corrected or avoided by applying the filter. I won't know unless I try it myself.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
It'll work but it only has one option - 25 Hz. If you want variable, your best bet is the Reckhorn B1. It'll bust your $100 budget though, unless you can find a used one...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Bah just realized this means I may need to change some plans.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I understand all that, thanks for trying to help me save money.. but I think my compulsiveness will get the better of me. Truth is I don't know 100% why others have had positive results in doing this, it could be they simply suffered from some anomoly in their room that was corrected or avoided by applying the filter. I won't know unless I try it myself.
I'm not trying to get you to save money but I would set it up and listen to it before adding something that could potentially affect the sound adversely. A 12dB/octave filter at 25Hz means that the response is -3cB at 25Hz, not that it starts there, so it's actually affecting 30Hz, too. You haven't heard the system in that room, so there's no way to know if you need it, or not. Remember- many of the things people recommend are because in their case, it worked because they wanted it to work and were told not only that it would, but also what differences they would hear. They spent the money, so it HAS to work, right?

Putting a filter on it before finding out what the system does is backward and usually doesn't yield the desired results. It's a lot like basing a speaker crossover design on what you want it to do, instead of testing the speakers and finding out what they do naturally. You can't force a speaker to do what it can't, or won't.

Experimentation is great but at some point, it has to be tested to find out what it's doing. Once that's done, you can decide if it's good or bad. Don't worry about people who say it needs this or that until you hear the system for yourself.
 
J

jid

Audioholic Intern
Yeah, it's all good advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to listen and play well before I start introducing a filter. However, after that the only way for me to tell if it makes a difference will be to actually try it. So, I went ahead and made this thread so that I'll know what and where to buy when I'm ready.

I didn't really want to get into the why of it for a few reasons, one of them being that I didn't want my thread to go off topic when I've already decided I want to do this. I've done a lot of reading as part of my research on subwoofers while trying to decide on one for my system and came across a lot of different information, ideas and experiences in terms of types of subs, placements, setups etc. Some of it is pretty interesting stuff, but better discussed in some other threads.

Anyway, I'm glad you replied to my thread. I value everybody's input because you never know what you'll learn.

Cheers
 
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