Man vs. God

[mtrycrafts]

You mean the effects of the full moon on people's behavior? I worked at a bar and every time we had a full moon, every whack job in town was out, causing trouble. Talk to some cops or people who work in the ER at a hospital- they'll say it happens. I have no reason to want it to happen and would really like it to stop, but I have trouble sleeping around the New Moon. That explains why I'm up now and have been up the past few mights.

Actually, talking to cops or the ER is useless, anecdotal and biased. While they may say it happens, that is just not the case
Similar to talking to 'golden ears.'
Doing actual research have been done and found no such evidence.
As to sleeping, use light control in the bedroom, like a good theater
I have no problem sleeping during full moon cycles You may have problems at other times too; may need to see a sleep clinic

 

[MatthewB.]

No Camel? how bout cameltoe then?

 

[CraigV]

Here’s my short take:

Science can’t go all the way back to before the big bang, because science can’t explain how the small particles that made the big bang got there in the first place.

If you were an all knowing, all capable being, would you “create” a universe just the way you wanted it to be? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to take two elemental particles, smash them together, sit back & see what happens?

The bible says God created all of everything in a matter of 6 days. This is an over simplified way to make the people of the time understand in terms they could comprehend. And the idea that we were “created in his image”…I don’t really picture a being so capable as being a bearded white male as so many paintings depict him.
I think God saw our species evolving, and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn & reason, he knew we could comprehend not only our own existence, but the existence of a being greater than ourselves. “In his image” in my opinion means that God endowed humans with souls, the very essence of what he is, so we could experience what his creation had become first hand in order to be closer to him, and better understand him.

 

[adwilk]

Here’s my short take:

Science can’t go all the way back to before the big bang, because science can’t explain how the small particles that made the big bang got there in the first place.

If you were an all knowing, all capable being, would you “create” a universe just the way you wanted it to be? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to take two elemental particles, smash them together, sit back & see what happens?

The bible says God created all of everything in a matter of 6 days. This is an over simplified way to make the people of the time understand in terms they could comprehend. And the idea that we were “created in his image”…I don’t really picture a being so capable as being a bearded white male as so many paintings depict him.
I think God saw our species evolving, and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn & reason, he knew we could comprehend not only our own existence, but the existence of a being greater than ourselves. “In his image” in my opinion means that God endowed humans with souls, the very essence of what he is, so we could experience what his creation had become first hand in order to be closer to him, and better understand him.

Good post, Craig. I would only wish to correct you on one statement. "...and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn and reason...."
An omnipotent being would not have been surprised by this. The bible clearly says we were created that way, not that we evolved into that. Humans were created to have a relationship with Him, therefore resulting in the creation of a being that could comprehend Him. This is a fundamental reason that Darwin's theory of evolution and scripture are so contradictory. The bible clearly says that we are not animals. We could not have evolved from anything related to an animal. Science classifies us as primates, which according the bible is wrong. We are humans, those created to worship Yahweh. Even most Christians miss this point, but it is perhaps the greatest truth for believers to know there is hope of salvation and that God wants to save those who by their own choice decide to trust in him. That is the basis of protestant Christianity. God's creation was with purpose.

 

[CraigV]

Good post, Craig. I would only wish to correct you on one statement. "...and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn and reason...."
An omnipotent being would not have been surprised by this. The bible clearly says we were created that way, not that we evolved into that. Humans were created to have a relationship with Him, therefore resulting in the creation of a being that could comprehend Him. This is a fundamental reason that Darwin's theory of evolution and scripture are so contradictory. The bible clearly says that we are not animals. We could not have evolved from anything related to an animal. Science classifies us as primates, which according the bible is wrong. We are humans, those created to worship Yahweh. Even most Christians miss this point, but it is perhaps the greatest truth for believers to know there is hope of salvation and that God wants to save those who by their own choice decide to trust in him. That is the basis of protestant Christianity. God's creation was with purpose.

I understand that is the conventional thinking, what I purport to do is introduce a new way of thinking which can satisfy both camps. As I like to say “God created evolution”. The whole of the universe, as we comprehend it thus far, is a product of evolution. When scientists and astronomers were asked to remark on the oddest things in the universe, what topped all their lists was…us. So far as we know, ours is the only planet that has life. Even if we were to find life somewhere else, it likely would be nothing like it is here on Earth. God saw this unique evolution and decided to give us something more than just the mere sum of our collective parts.

Also (as my sig suggests) we use science to understand creation. Science tells us that we are only separated from simians & even bovine by just a few DNA strands. Evolution – yes – but we were also given a very special gift along the way.

 

[NicolasKL]

So far as we know, ours is the only planet that has life.

Ours is really the only one that we've actually checked for life though, other than a little scratching around in the dirt on Mars. So far we're 1 for 2.

 

[adwilk]

I understand that is the conventional thinking, what I purport to do is introduce a new way of thinking which can satisfy both camps. As I like to say “God created evolution”. The whole of the universe, as we comprehend it thus far, is a product of evolution. When scientists and astronomers were asked to remark on the oddest things in the universe, what topped all their lists was…us. So far as we know, ours is the only planet that has life. Even if we were to find life somewhere else, it likely would be nothing like it is here on Earth. God saw this unique evolution and decided to give us something more than just the mere sum of our collective parts.

Also (as my sig suggests) we use science to understand creation. Science tells us that we are only separated from simians & even bovine by just a few DNA strands. Evolution – yes – but we were also given a very special gift along the way.

Fair enough, I can appreciate that explanation. My biggest "issue" (if you will) with your original post was the implication that God was somehow surprised with what he had done. I then rambled on forgetting the intention of my post in the first place.

 

[Davemcc]

This is a fundamental reason that Darwin's theory of evolution and scripture are so contradictory. The bible clearly says that we are not animals. We could not have evolved from anything related to an animal. Science classifies us as primates, which according the bible is wrong.

So which is correct, science or the bible? Does our DNA lie?

 

[CraigV]

Fair enough, I can appreciate that explanation. My biggest "issue" (if you will) with your original post was the implication that God was somehow surprised with what he had done. I then rambled on forgetting the intention of my post in the first place.

I don’t think God was surprised at all by what he saw. Indeed, it’s entirely possible that he had already had similar experiences from creatures on other planets. I fully anticipate that when my consciousness is released from my Earthly body, all the mysteries of the universe will be revealed, and it will be wondrous.

 

[adwilk]

So which is correct, science or the bible? Does our DNA lie?

I suppose that is the million dollar question, and why this thread exists. I know what I believe, but that does not make it truth. DNA was conceptualized by man. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I mean by that, as in, hard for me type out somehow. Scientifically, we are animals. In Biblical terms, we are not. Still the same million dollar question.

I'm simply trying to present the religious view as I understand it from what I've studied and how it all ties together with the religious purpose. I certainly don't have all the answers.

 

[adwilk]

Just as an interesting side not to a topic mentioned earlier... One of my favorite aspects of Genesis is that Light and Dark was created before the Sun and Stars...

I find that interesting.

 

[CraigV]

So which is correct, science or the bible? Does our DNA lie?

I tend to go farther back, to the very beginning, to see where we came from. Hydrogen & helium developed into heavier elements, and combined to make stars. The clouds that gave the stars their mass also gave rise to heavier elements, which formed the planets. Some scientists believe the elements that begat life on our planet (and maybe even brought water) came from the many objects that collided with the Earth early in its development.

Bottom line – whether we are the product of evolution or creationism, we all share a common ancestry.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Here’s my short take:

Science can’t go all the way back to before the big bang, because science can’t explain how the small particles that made the big bang got there in the first place.

Not yet. Maybe tomorrow.

If you were an all knowing, all capable being,

You mean it didn't have a beginning? Is he alone? Why??? What happened before it? Why create this experiment?

would you “create” a universe just the way you wanted it to be? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to take two elemental particles, smash them together, sit back & see what happens?

Why would it do that? Takes too long? What happens after this experiment? Was it a school project?

I think God saw our species evolving,

No others species out there in the vast universe? We are alone? Kind of a waste, no?
If there are others, what then? Or, maybe that is what it is testing in the school experiment?

and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn & reason, he knew we could comprehend not only our own existence, but the existence of a being greater than ourselves.

What is the need for such a being beyond a mind exercise?

“In his image” in my opinion means that God endowed humans with souls,

That is one interpretation of a book passage. Why does man need a soul? Purpose? Proof?

the very essence of what he is, so we could experience what his creation had become first hand in order to be closer to him, and better understand him.

You mean we'll be supernatural beings after our deaths? Must be to be next to it, to experience it, no?

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... The bible clearly says that we are not animals. We could not have evolved from anything related to an animal. Science classifies us as primates, which according the bible is wrong. We are humans, those created to worship Yahweh. Even most Christians miss this point, but it is perhaps the greatest truth for believers to know there is hope of salvation and that God wants to save those who by their own choice decide to trust in him. That is the basis of protestant Christianity. God's creation was with purpose.

So, the Bible cannot be wrong. Then, everything in it must not be interpreted but accepted word for word. Or, just certain parts of the Bible?
And, this God wants a nothingness in the universe to worship this God? Why?
So we can become supernatural in the end? Then, there are other supernatural entities someplace? Are there different levels of these entities? Are they equal or some become #1?
But, it is a good story to control the crowd

 

[mtrycrafts]

So which is correct, science or the bible? Does our DNA lie?

Both cannot be correct So, one has to be wrong.

 

[adwilk]

Not yet. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm sure craig will answer, but I felt like chiming in. Keep in mind that I'm only answering based on what scripture says as a document.

You mean it didn't have a beginning? Is he alone? Why??? What happened before it? Why create this experiment?

"It" or God is the beginning, alpha and omega nothing was before Him or after Him, His existence is eternal.


Why would it do that? Takes too long? What happens after this experiment? Was it a school project?

Creation was more than just a project. The existence of God has been and always will be to be glorified. God created things (and they were good) and He was glorified through it.

No others species out there in the vast universe? We are alone? Kind of a waste, no?
If there are others, what then? Or, maybe that is what it is testing in the school experiment?

Humans were created only to glorify Him based on the need for human dependence of Him. Without Him we don't exist. Our existence glorifies Him. Other species exist only to sustain our life. If other life exists, its life structure would be similar. Living beings given the breath of life in His image would use other life to sustain their own. Without this "human" element, there is no need for other life. Perhaps why we haven't found any. It is unnecessary.



What is the need for such a being beyond a mind exercise?

I'm not sure I understand that question... sorry..


That is one interpretation of a book passage. Why does man need a soul? Purpose? Proof?

Actually, thats hardly an interpretation. The bible says that God gave man the breath of life, a living soul. God was a living being. Nothing else had "life"

Purpose? The understanding to give up ones soul and choose to be dependent upon Him, ultimately glorifying Him. There is no proof.


You mean we'll be supernatural beings after our deaths? Must be to be next to it, to experience it, no?

Souls that have been redeemed will have everlasting life with God, forever to glorify Him. The bible mentions a new body and renewed spirit.

Like I said, those are the answers as the bible would explain it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I suppose that is the million dollar question, and why this thread exists. I know what I believe, but that does not make it truth. DNA was conceptualized by man. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I mean by that, as in, hard for me type out somehow. Scientifically, we are animals. In Biblical terms, we are not. Still the same million dollar question.

I'm simply trying to present the religious view as I understand it from what I've studied and how it all ties together with the religious purpose. I certainly don't have all the answers.

Well, if you accept that science, why cannot we be above them, evolved from them but beyond them? And, this can be extrapolated further with time.

 

[adwilk]

Well, if you accept that science, why cannot we be above them, evolved from them but beyond them? And, this can be extrapolated further with time.

Because the b-i-b-l-e told me so. The bible is very clear in that humans were created separate from the animals and given rule over animals. According the Old Testament, Humans were created specifically to glorify Him, the animals were not.

In some other ancient texts, philosophers considered it blasphemy to consider us equal to animals in creation but with rule over them. They assumed that, if we were created equal, then created our own rule over them, that we gave ourselves too much power and elevated our existence to that of the Creator. This would be a major no no.

 

[adwilk]

I guess it could be noted that there are lots of comparisons and parallels in the Eunma Elish account of creation. Its a pretty study, especially if you're familiar with the the Hebrew account of creation (Bible)

 

[MidnightSensi]

Here’s my short take:

Science can’t go all the way back to before the big bang, because science can’t explain how the small particles that made the big bang got there in the first place.

If you were an all knowing, all capable being, would you “create” a universe just the way you wanted it to be? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to take two elemental particles, smash them together, sit back & see what happens?

The bible says God created all of everything in a matter of 6 days. This is an over simplified way to make the people of the time understand in terms they could comprehend. And the idea that we were “created in his image”…I don’t really picture a being so capable as being a bearded white male as so many paintings depict him.

I think God saw our species evolving, and when he saw we had the capacity to think, learn & reason, he knew we could comprehend not only our own existence, but the existence of a being greater than ourselves. “In his image” in my opinion means that God endowed humans with souls, the very essence of what he is, so we could experience what his creation had become first hand in order to be closer to him, and better understand him.

Also, as we have learned through science that time slows as speed increases toward light, I have wondered now and again if the 6 days is from our reference point?

We have learned through science that there isn't a central reference point that we know of, and that time doesn't flow how we originally imaged...

Because I like to view things from both sides, perhaps the 6 days simply wasn't in the reference frame we imagined. For a god, that doesn't seem to far fetched.


But my godlessness seems to stem from the feelings that we are a little fuke, evolved from chaos into a chance of order, on a small planet that rotates about a little star in the corner of a ordinary galaxy. Sure blows my mind! Amazing huh?!