DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[gonk]

Yeah, I came across our discussion of that post's demise earlier today while mulling over what else can be said to MLS about his "non-censorship." I'd forgotten that you also got dinged during that little tussle.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Add me to the "Censored at av123" list:

This post on 8/24 only lasted an hour or two:

You would think he would go out of his way to refute these claims? It makes one wonder if him taking money from raffles solicited on his own companies message board goes much deeper and sinister than what has surfaced so far.

 

[gonk]

If he could refute them, I'm sure he would. The ones that he has admitted to (the pair that were for Fabrikant's dad and the four that were for the Waylands) are irrefutable. There's confirmation from Sloan Kettering that they got about half of what was collected, and Derek himself has posted recently in this thread about the scary amount of money still owed to him. Publicly disputing those debts would be a bad move for him if either party wanted to really hold his feet to the fire legally. Instead he admits to those two instances and acts insulted if you ask about the others - a reaction that hasn't really made me feel particularly good about the other raffles.

 

[droht]

You would think he would go out of his way to refute these claims? It makes one wonder if him taking money from raffles solicited on his own companies message board goes much deeper and sinister than what has surfaced so far.

I've come to terms, mostly, with mls and this whole thing. But, I can't help wonder about the impact it continues to have. For instance, I read a post today on AudioCircle about a guy who is planning to raffle off some gear to help our combat vets who have issues in one way or another. How much less cash do think he will generate because people have clearly seen what can become of unregulated raffles for charities?

 

[cschang]

I've come to terms, mostly, with mls and this whole thing. But, I can't help wonder about the impact it continues to have. For instance, I read a post today on AudioCircle about a guy who is planning to raffle off some gear to help our combat vets who have issues in one way or another. How much less cash do think he will generate because people have clearly seen what can become of unregulated raffles for charities?

Before you donate to anything, you have to make sure there is an audit trail....a way to verify the charity is legitimate, and a way to verify the monies have been donated.

As mentioned before, MLS probably didn't act alone. There is no way you can fool so many people without help (raffles or otherwise).

 

[Chu Gai]

You would think he would go out of his way to refute these claims? It makes one wonder if him taking money from raffles solicited on his own companies message board goes much deeper and sinister than what has surfaced so far.

Well what would a refutation entail? I think you'd need some sort of photocopy, with excessive personal information redacted, of a check or credit card statement. Then maybe a letter with all the information from the organization acknowledging the receipt of funds. To cap it off, I guess you'll also need to see something like a 1040 to make sure the amounts weren't reported there as income or a donation. To state the obvious, Colorado has laws against fraudulent efforts in this area.

I seem to recall someone telling me there's supposed to be a picture on the AV123 website of Suzanne Johnson or maybe MLS holding a check that was to go to the Red Cross for the Hurrican Katrina relief efforts. I've not been able to locate it. And to restate things, I do have someone looking into if the Red Cross received any monies, with approximate amounts, dates, and person(s) or companies. They've indicated a willingness to look into this. If there is any raffle that looks suspiciously fraudulent, it would be the many that occurred on behalf of the orphanages in Khabarovsk. Maybe Elena knows something about this, da Вы лежащий ублюдок!

 

[imscottr]

So I've trudged through 85 pages of this thread and got tired, so I skipped ahead...

I'm still fairly new to the HT thing, and purchased the original ELT's from AV123 about 6 years ago. I was going to purchase the Christmas Rocket Sale MLS has ever year. (850's, 200, 450's) for around $1,700. From what I've heard from others, the 850's will really outshine my ELT's. And I hear that system is 'best bang for your buck'. But since I found this thread, I don't know if I want to buy from MLS any more.

So with that in mind, what speakers do you recommend around that same price point? (Minus the sub.) I say around that price point, because that's my budget. I can't afford to spend $4,000 on speakers!


Thanks!
Scott

 

[droht]

To stay ID, and in the As, you can check out Aperion, Ascend and Axiom. Only your ears will tell you if you like those as much or better than Rockets, but I can at least say that I have not heard of any issues with customers being abused or charitable raffles being misused at any of those companies.

 

[Soundman]

If he could refute them, I'm sure he would. The ones that he has admitted to (the pair that were for Fabrikant's dad and the four that were for the Waylands) are irrefutable. There's confirmation from Sloan Kettering that they got about half of what was collected, and Derek himself has posted recently in this thread about the scary amount of money still owed to him. Publicly disputing those debts would be a bad move for him if either party wanted to really hold his feet to the fire legally. Instead he admits to those two instances and acts insulted if you ask about the others - a reaction that hasn't really made me feel particularly good about the other raffles.

This is sick and sad at the same time. And to think, I really used to like the guy.

 

[MinusTheBear]

For ID companies I don't think you can go wrong with Aperion, Axiom, SVS or Ascend. All have 30 day trials and are noted for exceptional customer service. Other speakers I would look at is Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Energy, B&W and this lost goes on and on. There are so many reputable brands to choose from, try to audition as many speakers as possible.

 

[Matt34]

I can't believe they are still in business, I guess that is one negative to I.D brands is they really only need an internet connection. If AV123 was a B&M store that sold locally only I'm sure they would have been out of business a long time ago and Mark would probably be in jail or on probation.

 

[Chu Gai]

I can't believe they are still in business, I guess that is one negative to I.D brands is they really only need an internet connection. If AV123 was a B&M store that sold locally only I'm sure they would have been out of business a long time ago and Mark would probably be in jail or on probation.

With all the things he's done wrong, it'd be the former. One thing that has helped him enormously are the sundry websites that've done reviews and interviews with him largely repeating the fictitous stories about him owning factories, his "I'm going to show the Chinese American quality', benevolence, made up numbers of products sold, dollars sold, generous greasing of reviewers with industry comps, and of course that great and vocal contingent of Mark is a great guy forum members. Everyone bought it because everyone kept repeating it. It was like a self-perpetuating story and no one bothered to fact check. Someone asks if the veneers he uses come from sustainable resources, and Mark knows what to say. The other person just nods.

 

[MinusTheBear]

With all the things he's done wrong, it'd be the former. One thing that has helped him enormously are the sundry websites that've done reviews and interviews with him largely repeating the fictitous stories about him owning factories, his "I'm going to show the Chinese American quality', benevolence, made up numbers of products sold, dollars sold, generous greasing of reviewers with industry comps, and of course that great and vocal contingent of Mark is a great guy forum members. Everyone bought it because everyone kept repeating it. It was like a self-perpetuating story and no one bothered to fact check. Someone asks if the veneers he uses come from sustainable resources, and Mark knows what to say. The other person just nods.

I would have to agree with you. Now that I look back on it the guy is a total fraud which makes the company a fraud because he is the face of the company. There is no company that benefited from viral misinformation over the interent than them. The CEO has obviously blantatly lied to its customer base to generate hype for products (vaporware) and the company. It sort of reminds me of cooking the books for the shareholders. Now we see the outcome of it. Its a shame for all the victims that are owed product or money. I am less hopeful for the people that are owed refund as it is looking more bleak as more deadlines pass such as the person that is owed money still in this thread.

 

[gonk]

You've certainly done very well with your explicit albeit general posts. And MLS is sensitive to the accusations of censorship. People aren't necessarily all posting about it but I'm sure he has lost very many forum followers because of the moderation. MLS knows this even if he tries to put the blame on troublemakers. Nevertheless, I'll be very surprised if you are allowed to ask more detailed questions about raffles and refunds.

At least the more general criticisms have the merit of alerting people to the underlying story...

We'll see how it goes. I just made a long post over there with details, knowing full well that those details may be deemed out-of-bounds.

 

[Chu Gai]

We'll see how it goes. I just made a long post over there with details, knowing full well that those details may be deemed out-of-bounds.

link please?

 

[gonk]

link please?

Open for interpretation

 

[jongaro]

has anyone seen marks apology regarding the raffle issues on av123 or avs forums? I haven't looked but was curious to see if someone had found them

 

[Chu Gai]

We'll see what happens when Shifty and the General wake up later. Good post.

 

[jongaro]

the general?

 

[Jed M]

has anyone seen marks apology regarding the raffle issues on av123 or avs forums? I haven't looked but was curious to see if someone had found them

He has made cryptic Jason Giambi type apologies about messing up and letting people down. I do think he feels bad about what he has caused, but I am sure a lot of people who break the law do too. Doesn't come close to excusing it, but a real apology detailing what charities he took from and an apology for the way his friends and customers are currently and have been treated since things have gone south, instead of just focusing on the problems leading up to the forum closing, would go a long way with me. I don't know about anymore, but it would have. Now it would come off as too insincere and a last ditch effort to stay out of criminal trouble.