EMP E5Ti Impression Series Speakers - Unbelievable Value

A

abboudc

Audioholic Chief
The first three you posted are not reviews (despite the path in the URL). On the site they appear as "First Looks", more of a preview where the author posts his first impressions and excitement level. The full reviews always have a scorecard at the end (like the 4th link above).
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Hey, look, disregard my comments and questions. None of them have any reasoning behind it or legitimacy. I am a conspiracy theorist and generally a nut-job. Your preliminary review was exceptionally responsible and very informative. Not answering any of the asked questions and belittling the person who asked them is a good deal! Congratulations.:)
So what was the finish? A coat of glossy clear plastic over a plastic wood picture or was an actual wood veneer? Or did you fail to look then you described gorgeous finish?
The above highlighted sentence is in stark contrast to the previous two sarcastic comments you made and then tried to elicit further information from me. (In fact, it probably is sarcastically intended as well.) Here is the first...

I am sorry but this looks like a big plug for EMP. Everything is so fabulous. Are we going to see a full page add next month?
Couple of questions though. Is it actually veneered panels finished in lacquer or a vinyl type plastic looking "burl finish"?
Also, a "fixed phase plug", what exactly is it? Is it fixed to a mid-range diaphragm of to the drivers motor assembly?
Thanks and best, R.
And here is your second nice comment to me (compliments highlighted, naturally)....

So I guess this are wonderful speakers in it's class they do everything absolutely peachy. I mean, I looked at the SPL but I would attribute +/- 5db in the response to the quickness of measurements and post processing. Would you be so kind to answer my previous questions now that I've apologized?
I'll say for the last time, your sarcasm is not appreciated. And if you think it will gain you further friends and information here, you seriously need to read some Dale Carnegie.

You have reasonable concerns and questions, R. You just really should learn how to be thoughtful and respectful (or at least a bit less abrasive) in asking them. And you simply need to take my review of them for what it was and how it was stated. It was nothing more or less than an A/B'ed audition/listening event.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
You have read previous reviews from here correct? ...because they cover everything you stated plus more and have been doing so since 2002.
Actually since the end of 1998 :eek:
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I can see how "First Look" in the page title and the First Look icon on the homepage next to the actual article could be confusing to people that these articles are in fact not reviews but "First Look" articles. Since we've been writing First Look articles for the last 3-4 years, I suppose someone not frequenting the site often could further confuse this as a review, perhaps even someone with over 200 posts to their name. I wonder if people have the same confusion when they read car magazines that offer "First Look" articles a month or two in advanced of a formal review.

In the future, we may consider placing big red letters in the forum post to let people know they just read a "First Look" article and not an actual review. I hope this didn't cause too much grief and let me just formally state again for further clarity that the article about these EMP speakers in question was in fact:

a First Look article!

I hope this clears things up and thanks for your comments.
 
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D

david-me

Audioholic Intern
What spec tells you they can't produce good bass?

The specs in relation to bass would be these:

• Dual 6½ " (203mm) Poly-matrix Woofers
• Frequency Response 50Hz-20kHz ±3dB
• Crossover Frequency 120 Hz/ 3,000 Hz

I don't see anything here pointing out that they can't produce good bass. Hell, they have two 6.5 inches bass drivers, not tuned too low (50hz ±3dB), so why would they not produce good bass? Maybe you mean low bass, and I'd have to agree, but the bass it produces shouldn't be too bad... I'd hope...
according to THIS, the frequency response is 60Hz-20kHz ± 5dB :confused: and, IMHO, would need to have a crossover of 80-100Hz.
 
L

Lodrin

Audiophyte
The frequency response is 60Hz-20kHz ± 5dB :confused: and, IMHO, would need to have a crossover of 80-100Hz.
I hope during the review they do a good analysis on the bass extension, whether it's there or not. I think that will make/break the product. Dual 6.5"'s having a falloff after 60hz seems relatively weak. If you are getting that type of weak bass response, why bother with a 4 driver tower at all?

While I agree a lot of people will crossover around 80hz, and at a price point of $400/pair they may seem like a good deal... at the "regular price" of $730 you have legit competition. The Aperion 4T with dual 4" drivers will produce a similar if not better spec graph then what I'm hearing from the EMP E5Ti, with probably better build construction, better finish, a better tweeter @ a cheaper price point of $650.

When you start recommending high quality outriggers to even get bass on this product , you start approaching the price point of the Aperion 5T which probably run circles around it.

I don't see this product moving @ $730 if the bass isn't there.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I didn't find the bass weak at all in my listening tests. In fact, I thought it was a bit too boosted in the 60-80Hz region. The nice thing is these speakers don't bottom out which is important at high listening levels with or without a sub. Aperion also makes very nice product with excellent cabinetry. I think its cool consumers have so many budget options these days.
 
C

Cogito

Audiophyte
While sound quality is most important and obviously the most subjective part of any review, I find that a sunstansive review of the components used and the quality of contrruction to be of high importance. I'd like to know things such as what are the materials used in the construction. Are they using 1/2" or 3/4" MDF, how we ll braced are the cabinets, do the dirvers use cast frames or stamped frames, crossover build quality and a general sense of fit and finish.
 
S

Solid-State

Banned
While sound quality is most important and obviously the most subjective part of any review, I find that a sunstansive review of the components used and the quality of contrruction to be of high importance. I'd like to know things such as what are the materials used in the construction. Are they using 1/2" or 3/4" MDF, how we ll braced are the cabinets, do the dirvers use cast frames or stamped frames, crossover build quality and a general sense of fit and finish.
And why not quasi-anechoic measurements as well from various axis? This doesn't mean you have to have a LinearX LX700 with like 6 chans of $2K a piece electrets mikes. You could easily come up with a cheaper solution. I'd also like more specifics on drivers by speaker dis-assembly and perhaps note crossover design and filter type as well as xover points. I know you guys can't report everything. Thanks for posting these readings of the E5Ti. I guess those were taken at the RBH Sound lab. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7644&d=1252030744
From looking at that, the readings were taken 80dBSPL not 90dB. From looking at the drops at 180-300 of 6dB and again at 1.2-2k is this driver roll-off? I can imagine the reading was taken at 80dB and not 90 because this would be even more pronounced at higher volume. It seems in it's current state you wouldn't want to play this speaker mega loud due to distortion so the 25-35 crotch rocket riding young men needing 4 subs need not apply. From looking at the graph you'd think crossover work is in order or perhaps driver roll-off/matching is poor. This has to be taken in context though people... a set is $400 bucks! Did I hear that right! DEAL just for those gorgeous cabinets alone!

Solid-State
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I guess those were taken at the RBH Sound lab. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...4&d=1252030744
From looking at that, the readings were taken 80dBSPL not 90dB. From looking at the drops at 180-300 of 6dB and again at 1.2-2k is this driver roll-off? I can imagine the reading was taken at 80dB and not 90 because this would be even more pronounced at higher volume. It seems in it's current state you wouldn't want to play this speaker mega loud due to distortion so the 25-35 crotch rocket riding young men needing 4 subs need not apply. From looking at the graph you'd think crossover work is in order or perhaps driver roll-off/matching is poor. This has to be taken in context though people... a set is $400 bucks! Did I hear that right! DEAL just for those gorgeous cabinets alone!
You know I am sorry I pulled a quick measurement before boxing these up and shipping them to Tom for review. This was a 1/2 meter in-room measurement and it wasn't at 1 watt. I wanted to verify that both speakers measured similarly and that there wasn't a wiring issue in the xover. It was not meant to be a precise measurement at all. The dip at lower frequencies is a function of the room, not the speaker. The dip in the lower midrange could be a measurement anomaly b/c of the close distance of the mic relative to the spacing of the tweet and midrange. I don't think its a crossover error since the filter is centered at 3kHz which is above the measurement anamoly. The review will contain more precise measurements and an analysis of the sound and build quality.

While sound quality is most important and obviously the most subjective part of any review, I find that a sunstansive review of the components used and the quality of contrruction to be of high importance. I'd like to know things such as what are the materials used in the construction. Are they using 1/2" or 3/4" MDF, how we ll braced are the cabinets, do the dirvers use cast frames or stamped frames, crossover build quality and a general sense of fit and finish.
Believe it or not there are some manufacturers that argue that fancy cast frames and crossover components don't make audible differences. They've even heatedly debated me on these issues. However at budget prices like these, don't expect cream of the crop parts usage and construction. Sometimes the trade offs of things that make only minute differences in audible quality make sense when one needs to keep the product at a price point the masses can afford. I've heard many speakers with stamped baskets and electrolytic caps that sound quite good, and certainly better than the sum of the parts would indicate.
 
G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
While I agree a lot of people will crossover around 80hz, and at a price point of $400/pair they may seem like a good deal... at the "regular price" of $730 you have legit competition. The Aperion 4T with dual 4" drivers will produce a similar if not better spec graph then what I'm hearing from the EMP E5Ti, with probably better build construction, better finish, a better tweeter @ a cheaper price point of $650.

When you start recommending high quality outriggers to even get bass on this product , you start approaching the price point of the Aperion 5T which probably run circles around it.
Interesting....
When I compare specs of the EMP E5Ti to the Aperion Intimus 5T, they appear very similar. On paper, the EMP E5Ti look better than the Aperion Intimus 4T. And they even look better than the 5T when you consider the crazy introductory price of the EMP E5Ti.
 
S

Solid-State

Banned
Hi Gene,

Sorry for the hasty comments. I understand how readings were taken now. It looks to be a great speaker at an absolutely amazing intro price. If I was in the market I'd personally pick up a pair as the cabinets alone gotta be worth that. It's really amazing you guys and RBH can bring such a piece to market at such a price point. That's great news for all of us in these economic times.

Solid-State
 
ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
Close but no cigar

I bought the RBH TK-5CT speakers based on Tom's review and absolutely love them. I wonder how they would compare to these EMP speakers.
Knowing RBH very well, I am all but positive that the TK's will outperform these, even if just marginally. TK-5CT's have incredible construction, it's a shame I only have 3 pairs left and will no longer be ale to offer them to our dealers, a great product line indeed. You have to consider that they also made a pseudo TK series that was/is available as an EMP branded product, though they don't use the same fibreglass drivers that RBH used to get that warm, European sound. They are similar but not the same, RBH models will generally offer superior materials and quality.

I don't doubt that these will outperform EMP's TK clones, but I highly doubt they hold their own against a real pair of RBH's TK5CT's, which are one of the best values for money I've seen from RBH (or any other manufacturer for that matter)...ever.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Knowing RBH very well, I will assure you that the TK's will outperform these, even if marginally. TK5's have incredible construction, it's a shame I only have 3 pairs left and will no longer be ale to offer them to our dealers, a great product indeed. You also have to consider that they also made a pseudo TK series that was/is availale as the EMP line, though they don't use teh same fireglass drivers that RBH used. They are similar but not the same, RBH models will offer superior materials and quality.

I don't doubt that these will outperform EMP's TK clones, but I doubt they hold their own against a real pair of RBH's TK5CT's, which are one of the best values for money I've seen from RBH (or any other manufacturer for that matter)...ever.
Oz the EMP and RBH versions of the TK towers were identical in terms of performance. Only slight cosmetic differences (including the color of the cones) existed to keep the products separate through different sales channels.

While it may be true the TKs perform "better" than the new Impression speakers, the TKs were a hard sale b/c they were cosmetically challenged. I am looking forward to reading peoples opinions that have heard both towers side by side. Unfortunately I've never had that opportunity.
 
ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
Po-tay-toe, po-ta-to

Oz the EMP and RBH versions of the TK towers were identical in terms of performance. Only slight cosmetic differences (including the color of the cones) existed to keep the products separate through different sales channels.

While it may be true the TKs perform "better" than the new Impression speakers, the TKs were a hard sale b/c they were cosmetically challenged. I am looking forward to reading peoples opinions that have heard both towers side by side. Unfortunately I've never had that opportunity.
According to Shane (or it might have been Darren), they use different drivers. I've worked with TK's for a few years but not the EMP's for any length of time, though my dealer pricing definitely indicates a different build also. I get a few here and there but do not normally offer products that can be bought online.

Aesthetics: I think the 'hard sell' was a US thing also, they sold quite well in Canada (comparatively) and are still in demand now. I only have three pairs, which are spoken for, and people looking for any others we can bring in, though I do prefer the black to the rosewood vinyl wrap (which I think just looks too cheap). The bases were also a bit of an issue, if removed more than once or twice for moving, they don't seem to hold up and the inserts come loose.

The odd thing is, I've seen EMP's that had a noticably polypro cone, smooth carbon black (like their A-Series architectural products) and not textured fibreglass at all, like the TK's. The models shown on the EMP site use the gold fibreglass cones as the RBH did and the online ads show something inbetween. Looks like someone had a sale on cones when they were putting them together. :D But hey, these aren't the Layton, USA built Signature Series afterall.

I'd still stick with the RBH TK's over the EMP in any case except budget, just like their 'EW' series on-walls, the difference to RBH is night and day and not comparable at all there, though quite different build all around too. I actually wonder why they released the EW's, they didn't sell and can be bought at ridiculously low prices now as they are trying to clear them all out.

I really like the look of the new EMP's but it seems EMP has become a testing ground for entry level RBH lines or RBH wannabes. RBH does very well in the upper end of the spectrum, but they seem to have issues making a cheap speaker that still offers a good financial return to RBH. It appears that they are either WAY too good for the selling price or too cheap to brand as their own and thus turn into online blowout products.

It's too bad, I know they all work very hard at it!
 
L

lesser evil

Enthusiast
Are the EMP E5Ti's designed by John Krutke?

These look to be using the ZA14WO8 5" drivers designed by John Kutke of Zaph Audio. - If so, that and his selection of drivers / crossover design could clearly explain the competative value of these speakers.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Oz;

Don't get too hung up on driver material especially if the drivers perform comparibly. I heard both EMP and RBH versions and they sounded very similar to me and I discussed this in great detail with Shane. Regardless, those products are now being phased out not because of performance issues, but because of lack of flair. I agree RBH could do much better at the lower spectrum if they get their act together with marketing and distribution.

Also don't confuse RBH with EMP. The EMP on-walls were not RBH clones. They were completely different designs. The new EMP products are also completely different than anything in the current RBH lineup.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Oz;

Don't get too hung up on driver material especially if the drivers perform comparibly. I heard both EMP and RBH versions and they sounded very similar to me and I discussed this in great detail with Shane. Regardless, those products are now being phased out not because of performance issues, but because of lack of flair. I agree RBH could do much better at the lower spectrum if they get their act together with marketing and distribution.

Also don't confuse RBH with EMP. The EMP on-walls were not RBH clones. They were completely different designs. The new EMP products are also completely different than anything in the current RBH lineup.
Well said. :)
 

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