Help with Basic Problem Balancing Sound

[handsomekilla]

Hi,

I'm a total newbie who knows very little about the intricacies of home theater setup. I just bought a HTIB system that to me sounds pretty good: an Onkyo ST-7100. I used Onkyo's built-in Audyssey setup microphone system to calibrate the speakers.

For most applications, the sound is great, including music, radio, television, etc. However I have a consistent problem with movies (from the DVD player, an Apple MacBook and an AppleTV): the loud sounds are too loud and the quieter sounds (e.g., dialogue) are too quiet, so that I'm constantly turning the volume up and down as the soundtracks change.

Actually this is a problem I had with my previous HTIB too, a chintzy Panasonic system that I gave away, thinking an investment in a slightly more serious system would remedy my problems.

Of course, our living room is not exactly an ideal audio environment. We live in a New York City loft, with high ceilings, multiple uses in the same space (entertainment, work, eat, etc.), and there's a fair amount of ambient noise from the street. Still, I'm not looking for perfect sound -- I just want acceptable sound, meaning I want to be able to sit back and watch a movie without having to constantly man the volume controls.

One thing I've considered is that the sound inputs into the Onkyo receiver are too primitive for the system -- but I really am a newbie when it comes to those things. Any help troubleshooting this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I'm a total newbie who knows very little about the intricacies of home theater setup. I just bought a HTIB system that to me sounds pretty good: an Onkyo ST-7100. I used Onkyo's built-in Audyssey setup microphone system to calibrate the speakers.

For most applications, the sound is great, including music, radio, television, etc. However I have a consistent problem with movies (from the DVD player, an Apple MacBook and an AppleTV): the loud sounds are too loud and the quieter sounds (e.g., dialogue) are too quiet, so that I'm constantly turning the volume up and down as the soundtracks change.

Actually this is a problem I had with my previous HTIB too, a chintzy Panasonic system that I gave away, thinking an investment in a slightly more serious system would remedy my problems.

Of course, our living room is not exactly an ideal audio environment. We live in a New York City loft, with high ceilings, multiple uses in the same space (entertainment, work, eat, etc.), and there's a fair amount of ambient noise from the street. Still, I'm not looking for perfect sound -- I just want acceptable sound, meaning I want to be able to sit back and watch a movie without having to constantly man the volume controls.

One thing I've considered is that the sound inputs into the Onkyo receiver are too primitive for the system -- but I really am a newbie when it comes to those things. Any help troubleshooting this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

That problem is not the systems problem directly. It is due to the high level the movies are mixed at and the wide dynamic range. Obviously enthusiasts want wide dynamic range, and the movies are mixed with big powerful systems in mind, not HTIBS.

Your solution is dynamic range compression. It might be your Onkyo has one of these settings, like night time or something like that.

If your HTIB does not have that setting, then you need to move away from HTIB, and get a receiver that has those type of dynamic compression options.

However if you move away from HTIB and get a more powerful speaker system, you may decide you enjoy the movies as mixed, but your neighbors may not.

 

[AVRat]

TLS is absolutely correct. Watching the first two LOTR the last two nights the dynamic range is quite amazing. Somewhat quiet one minute, then BAM, all HELL breaks loose. The Onkyo 7100 is a good little system.

 

[Adam]

Your solution is dynamic range compression. It might be your Onkyo has one of these settings, like night time or something like that.

Yep, it's called "Late Night" on that model. How to set it is discussed on page 69 of the owner's manual.

 

[handsomekilla]

Thanks TLS Guy and everyone for your help. That makes a lot of sense to me now, and I had spotted the 'Late Night' function in the manual earlier though I didn't really understand it.

Following the manual instructions, I can't seem to access the Late Night function in the menus. Looking at the instructions on page 69 more closely, it says "The Late Night function can be used only when the input source is Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby True HD."

I have to admit I'm not clear on what that means -- how do I designate those source types?

I watch movies primarily from two devices: a Samsung, upconverting standard def DVD player, and my Apple TV. Both are connected to the receiver via standard red and white analog audio cables. Do I need to change these connections out for something more advanced in order to be using one of these Dolby technologies?

Again, much thanks for the guidance.

 

[Adam]

Hi. The dynamic range compression can only be done by the receiver on digital input sources, so you're right - it won't work if you are using the analog (red/white) inputs.

I'd suggest that you use a digital audio connection for both the DVD player and the Apple TV. First, the audio will likely sound MUCH better to you in general, and it might even solve the issue that you are experiencing without ever having to use the Late Night mode.

The Apple TV can be connected using an optical digital audio connection. You can use an inexpensive cable like this one that has the necessary connection on both ends (the Apple TV uses a minijack connection). You can also buy a regular optical cable and get an adapter for one end to connect to the Apple TV. You can buy those at several places, but Monoprice is inexpensive and has good quality products.

If you let us know the model number of your Samsung DVD player, we can tell you the best connection for it, too.

 

[handsomekilla]

Wow, terrific, thank you Adam for such a quick reply late on a holiday weekend evening!

I'll definitely pick up one of those cables for the Apple TV. The Samsung model is the Samsung DVD-1080P8 (link here -- bit.ly/BvcR6 ), which I think has a few different audio out options. Thanks for suggesting the right cable for that one, too.

 

[Adam]

No problem!

I apologize - I was wrong about the Apple TV. I was thinking about the Mac Mini. The Apple TV uses a regular optical connection, so you don't want the one with the mini adapter on the end of it. I'll discuss an even better option after the next paragraph - and that's the HDMI connection.

With that Samsung, you are gold for trying out digital sound very quickly. You can have that up and running in no time. It has a coax digital audio output, which just looks like a regular RCA jack...because it is. You could use any RCA cable that you have around, or even use one end of the audio cable that you are currently using for it (just use the red or white connector). The Onkyo has two coax digital audio inputs. Those digital inputs probably need to be assigned, and you will probably need to change a setting in the Samsung to change the audio output to something called "bitstream" to get the best sound. We'll be happy to talk you through all of that.

All of that said, you have another option here. The Samsung and Apple TV both have HDMI outputs. The Onkyo has HDMI inputs. I think that those would be the best way to go. You can also get those cables for not much money at all. Monoprice.com is a good place for those, and I've also seen them cheap on Amazon (we're talking in the $3-$4 range for six-foot cables).

What TV are you using? Does it have an HDMI input? If you aren't sure, let us know the model number.

 

[handsomekilla]

Okay I had a closer look at my system and realized I'd made a few mistakes -- all of which will just go further to prove the point of what a newbie I am.

First, I just realized that the DVD player was in fact connected via HDMI (to HDMI INPUT 1 on the receiver). Duh! As soon as I saw you mention HDMI as a possibility, I said to myself, "What a minute...don't I have some HDMI cables back there in that mess?"

When I had a closer look at how the receiver was setup -- how the inputs had been assigned, it shows that the Digital Audio Input (menu item 1-3) setting for the DVD was COAX1. So I changed it to HDMI1.

However, when I try the instructions on page 69, I still don't get the Late Night function. The options I get are Bass, Treble, DynamicEQ, M. Optimizer, Subwfr, Center, and A/V Sync. So not only is Late Night missing, but apparently so is Cinema Fltr (but the manual seems to imply that Cinema Fltr only works with "certain input sources," so maybe it's not unusual that it's missing).

So now I'm stumped. The DVD player is only hooked up to the Onkyo receiver by one HDMI cable. Do I somehow need to indicate that the HDMI cable should be communicating audio using a Dolby 'protocol'?

Looking through the menu items (when I click Receiver then Setup on the remote) I see that there's a Listening Mode Preset that can be set for the DVD (menu 5-1). There are five options here:

• Analog/PCM
• Dolby Digital
• DTS
• D.F. 2ch
• D.F. Mono

Each one is set to the value "Last Valid," though each can be set to one of these values: Direct, Stereo, Mono, Dolby Digital, Dolby EX, PLIIx Movie, etc.

It feels like this is the right place to make some settings changes but I can't find any detailed information about it in the manual. Any ideas?

Again, thanks very much!

 

[Adam]

That's actually great news, because that means that you don't need to buy another cable!

I think that the place to start is the menu on the DVD player. You'll want to make sure that it's set up to output the raw digital signal ("Bitstream"), which will allow your receiver to decode it. If it's set to output the audio as PCM, then your receiver can't use the "Late Night" mode (as far as I know). Setting that up is discussed on pages 49 and 50 of the owner's manual for the DVD player.

Another note - the Late Night mode most likely won't be available unless you are actually playing a source (like a movie) that is encoded in the Dolby Digital formats when you try to turn it on.

The Late Night option isn't available for DTS, or at least that's my impression from the owner's manual for the Onkyo.

 

[handsomekilla]

Adam: Ah okay that was a critical part of the equation that I had completely missed: that the source has to be set to send a digital audio signal as well as the receiver.

So on the DVD player I set the Digital Out to BITSTREAM (it was set up as PCH before). Then on the receiver, I set the Listening Mode Presets for the DVD to play using Dolby Pro Logic IIx mode where possible. That finally enabled the Late Night function that you mentioned.

The result is that the sound is A LOT better now! The dialog is coming through fine at a lower volume setting, and louder noises are not too loud and disruptive. My girlfriend sat down to try it out and remarked immediately how improved the sound is. So THANK YOU!

Of course, those settings were only for the DVD player. I'm going to try and do the same thing with the Apple TV later this afternoon, using the same concept. Hopefully it'll be pretty straightforward.

Again, many, many thanks for helping with this. It's really quite complicated but I think I finally grasped some key concepts that I had been completely ignorant of before.

 

[Adam]

Awesome! I'm so glad that it's working better for you. I really appreciate you coming back and letting us know.

One thing stood out to me, though. You said that you set the listening mode preset to "Dolby Pro Logic IIx." I just noticed that because that's a matrixed surround mode that typically applies to two-channel audio tracks. When playing a DVD with Dolby Digital 5.1, I'd say just check to make sure that it's playing in Dolby Digital and not Pro Logic IIx (I honestly don't know if it even could play a 5.1 audio track in Pro Logic, so this might be a non-issue).

 

[handsomekilla]

Yeah I have to admit I don't really understand the various options there for the Listening Mode -- the differences between Dolby Digital, PLIIx, Dolby EX, etc. are beyond me.

I tried several of these options and not all of them seemed to produce sound in the surround/rear speakers. PLIIx seemed to produce the best results but I could have gotten mixed up as I was switching settings back and forth to see what would work.

As per your advice I've just switched the Dolby Digital listening mode to 'Dolby Digital' instead -- it sounds good too and it also enables the Late Night function, so I'll leave it there.

While I have your attention: is there a good beginner's guide/book to all these home theater basics? I'm a pretty technical guy when it comes to computers, the Web, etc. But I'm pretty bewildered by all of these acronyms and technologies, it would be great to have them demystified.

Thanks!

 

[Adam]

Regarding learning the terms, I find Google to be a good way to go. I just search for terms.

Another place to learn is Audioholics! On the main page of the Audioholics site, the top menu has some good choices including "AV University" and "Tips & Tricks" that will help you learn and set up your system.