This could be the end for now.

[jeffsg4mac]

Let's not forget the many republicans I know crossed the isle to vote for Obama. The republicans lost control and let the power get to their head.

I imagine in 8 years we'll have a republican president again though.

True, but it will be in four years. Zero is one termer you can bet on that.

 

[markw]

Let's not forget the many republicans I know crossed the isle to vote for Obama. The republicans lost control and let the power get to their head.

And I recon that's a mistake they won't make again.

I imagine in 8 years we'll have a republican president again though.

I think you might see that in 2012 although I suspect the change in attitude will become apparent with the elections in 2010. People don't like being played for suckers and then having it rammed down their throats.

As it now stands, it might be the Blue Dog Dems that are keeping this country from falling over the precipice.

 

[aberkowitz]

True, but it will be in four years. Zero is one termer you can bet on that.

Not unless the republicans come up with a half decent candidate. I'm sorry, but the GOP bench is pathetically short. Of the big names: Mitt doesn't make a great candidate (he has the charisma of a head of cabbage), Huckabee has little appeal outside of the south, and Palin is pretty much a laughing-stock at this point- Gary Hart has a better chance of winning an election.

I really cannot name many younger republicans who are thought of as "up and coming"- Bobby Jindal is the only name that comes to mind and it was clearly shown that he's a terrible public speaker. I guess some no-name could come out of the woodwork over the next few years, but if I were in that situation I would rather wait until 2016 and run against a non-incumbent.

 

[highfigh]

As predicted the conservatives feed lots of BS into the thread.

He's only raising taxes back to what they were in the 90s for those people. As I recall those were very good years for our nation.

The fact is Obama did something I didn't even think was possible. He broke the color barrier in our country's presidency. He's doing fine as president and congress is doing fine running the country. Maybe some communism is good for us.

I love how the only tactic you guys seem to know is fear. You used it to keep Bush in office and now your using it to try and beat Obama. It's ok though I understand repeating lies and misinformation is the way our system seems to work these days.

Re: conservatives feeding BS inte the thread, well, we do need to be fair and balanced.

Of course the country was doing well then- we didn't have 12 million illegals using up resources and sucking up resources, the tech bubble was in full swing and all of the people making big salaries were getting their asses taxed off.

I don't have a problem with the color barrier being crossed but A) it was one of the main aspects of their platform, B) we'll see how fine he's actually doing after the smoke clears and he can't run the country on his own. Just being a different color doesn't qualify anyone to be President. His machine got him elected, just like McCain's didn't get him elected. McCain's had four flat tires and a tank full of bad gasoline.

As far as some communism being good for us, HOLY CRAP!!!!!! Do you actually know what it's like to be in a communist country? Here's what a high school friend said when someone asked what life was like in Czechoslovakia- "We didn't live, we existed".

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Not unless the republicans come up with a half decent candidate. I'm sorry, but the GOP bench is pathetically short. Of the big names: Mitt doesn't make a great candidate (he has the charisma of a head of cabbage), Huckabee has little appeal outside of the south, and Palin is pretty much a laughing-stock at this point- Gary Hart has a better chance of winning an election.

I really cannot name many younger republicans who are thought of as "up and coming"- Bobby Jindal is the only name that comes to mind and it was clearly shown that he's a terrible public speaker. I guess some no-name could come out of the woodwork over the next few years, but if I were in that situation I would rather wait until 2016 and run against a non-incumbent.

I would not be too quick to write Palin off, but you are correct.

 

[lsiberian]

I would not be too quick to write Palin off, but you are correct.

Bill Clinton made a terrible speech in the 1988 DNC, but then went on to an 8 year term. So anything is possible.

My favorite debate all time was Keyes vs Obama. This is the best debate I've watched. Both very good speakers. Keyes is too crazy to get in public office, but he was the most charismatic person in any republican debate.

Obama is impossible to beat in my mind. He'll have to beat himself and I hope he doesn't for the sake of our nation. I really want a republican congress again. The Dem president/Rep congress combination worked very well in the 90s.

FYI technology is still exploding and Ruby on Rails is transforming the internet.

 

[rnatalli]

Obama will win in 2012 for one simple reason. The economy will recover he will get the credit. I'm not saving he should get credit, but he will. 2012 will be 1996 all over again. Short of a major political scandal, he'll be there till 2016.

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton, but he did get something right. At his departure, the government was taking in more than it was spending.

As for communism being good, my wife grew up in the Soviet Union and she wouldn't go back to that system given the choice. However, one could argue that the Soviet system wasn't a text-book communism. I do believe we should have a public option for healthcare, but that's the only thing the government doesn't have a hand in which I think it should.

 

[lsiberian]

Obama will win in 2012 for one simple reason. The economy will recover he will get the credit. I'm not saving he should get credit, but he will. 2012 will be 1996 all over again. Short of a major political scandal, he'll be there till 2016.

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton, but he did get something right. At his departure, the government was taking in more than it was spending.

As for communism being good, my wife grew up in the Soviet Union and she wouldn't go back to that system given the choice. However, one could argue that the Soviet system wasn't a text-book communism. I do believe we should have a public option for healthcare, but that's the only thing the government doesn't have a hand in which I think it should.

I said some not all. And the Communism of the Soviets wasn't true communism. Let's not confuse the 2. We already have communist schools, but we allow for competition. I think healthcare will be kind of like our schools.

Which aren't as bad as people think.

 

[aberkowitz]

Bill Clinton made a terrible speech in the 1988 DNC, but then went on to an 8 year term. So anything is possible.

Two major differences:

1) Very few people watch convention speeches live, and with the lack of MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, and YouTube by the time 1992 came around very few people probably even remembered Clinton's speech. The counter-example here is Obama's speech in 2004- had that speech been made in 1984, without the same viral marketing tools that existed 20 years later, nobody would have remembered him either.

2) Clinton was not such a polarizing figure who went on the attack after the '88 election. Palin has been all over the news and the internet in recent months commenting on every issue that's come up. She's reinforcing the caricature that was created of her- the governor of a state that's as far removed from the mainstream as possible, and as somebody who is totally uninformed on many issues (e.g. Expert on foreign policy b/c she can see Russia from her backyard).

Palin's major problem in the future is going to be the interviews she's given over the past 12 months (particularly during the election) where she came off as totally inexperienced. Her opponents will play those in a nonstop loop during the next election cycle.

 

[highfigh]

Bill Clinton made a terrible speech in the 1988 DNC, but then went on to an 8 year term. So anything is possible.

My favorite debate all time was Keyes vs Obama. This is the best debate I've watched. Both very good speakers. Keyes is too crazy to get in public office, but he was the most charismatic person in any republican debate.

Obama is impossible to beat in my mind. He'll have to beat himself and I hope he doesn't for the sake of our nation. I really want a republican congress again. The Dem president/Rep congress combination worked very well in the 90s.

FYI technology is still exploding and Ruby on Rails is transforming the internet.

Might have been a terrible speech but with his charisma, he can sell anything.

Never underestimate the public's ability to confuse crazy with enthusiasm, and vote that person in. If Keyes had Obama's election machine, I'm not sure he would have lost.

A Republican Congress wouldn't be bad but I think some moderation in ideas would be good, too. Extremist values in government aren't needed and when too many branches are in agreement, it can get ugly, fast. We need intelligent debate and we have had too much personal attack, too many earmarks slipped in at the last minute without any scrutiny and too much insane spending without considering where the money will come from. Just raising taxes to cover their asses is wrong and if they think GM was run badly, they should think about how this "Stimulus" would look if it was a large corporation. Doubling debt and increasing the number of employees would never be seen as good management.

 

[markw]

Economics 101

I said some not all. And the Communism of the Soviets wasn't true communism. Let's not confuse the 2. We already have communist schools, but we allow for competition. I think healthcare will be kind of like our schools.

Which aren't as bad as people think.

You're throwing around terms of which you have no idea of their meaning.

I really think you should do some reading in economic systems, particularly in regards to the differences in a market and a command system and the governments roles in each.

Try Economics, 16th edition by McConnell/Brue, Chapter 2, page 33.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

There is no such thing as good communism period!

 

[redass]

There is no such thing as good communism period!

this explains a lot of your posts and the thought process (or lack thereof) in them. you don't really need to think about anything if you view the world in terms of black and white.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

this explains a lot of your posts and the thought process (or lack thereof) in them. you don't really need to think about anything if you view the world in terms of black and white.

I don't view anything in black and white, but rather right and wrong. communism is dead wrong! To think otherwise is ignorant at best and a total disregard to history.

Feel free to enlighten us all with what good communism might be. I would love to hear about this utopia.

 

[rnatalli]

To think otherwise is ignorant at best and a total disregard to history.

This is not a good indicator at all. One could say that history has shown that democracies and republics always fail; in fact, some of the longest lasting governments were neither. It would be more accurate to say that republics and democracies generally last longer than communist states and the population generally happier. Ultimately, everything fails.

"Democracy is the worst form of government…except for all the others."

-Churchill

In some ways, the US electoral system is communist depending on your definition. Think about it.

 

[highfigh]

I said some not all. And the Communism of the Soviets wasn't true communism. Let's not confuse the 2. We already have communist schools, but we allow for competition. I think healthcare will be kind of like our schools.

Which aren't as bad as people think.

If you were to come to Milwaukee and say the Milwaukee Public Schools aren't so bad, people would look at you like they were a dog watching TV. Their annual budget is in the $1.7B range and they're about the worst in the country. The Mayor and Governor want the city to take over the school system because it's that bad. The problem with that is the fact that the governor is a lying sack of crap and while you'd think that as a former State Atty General he would know the State's general Council should be licensed in this state to practice law, he acted like it was news to him, even though e-mails have been presented that prove he knew her status.

The interesting thing is that, as far as I know, MKE is the last city in the US to have a Socialist mayor. There hasn't been a Republican since 1908 and for the 1912-1916 term, they had one who's listed as Republican/Democrat fusion (couldn't make up his mind?). The rest in the 20th Century were Democrat or Socialist. (WTH am I doing here?????????)

Oddly enough, I read that when Mayor Daniel Hoan was in office, the city was in hte middle of a huge budget crisis and he scaled back on many areas, bringing the city back into a healthy financial position again. That's not typical of how things are done here.

If there's anything I do like about what I have heard about Communist countries, it's that they require people to go to school and actually know the material. What I don't like is the fact that they tend to be rather choosy about what information is presented to the students, in terms of what version of history they learn. Math and science are much less debatable unless you get into the theoretical physics area.

 

[lsiberian]

You're throwing around terms of which you have no idea of their meaning.

I really think you should do some reading in economic systems, particularly in regards to the differences in a market and a command system and the governments roles in each.

Try Economics, 16th edition by McConnell/Brue, Chapter 2, page 33.

I'm quite aware of the 2 systems thank you. I'm also aware that extremes of these systems only work in Utopian societies with perfect people. The fact is all governments and economies are a cosmopolitan makeup of the different systems. There is no denying our public school system is a communist like institution.

FYI Marx is probably the best reading to understand communism. Why not go straight to the primary source?

 

[jeffsg4mac]

This is not a good indicator at all. One could say that history has shown that democracies and republics always fail; in fact, some of the longest lasting governments were neither. It would be more accurate to say that republics and democracies generally last longer than communist states and the population generally happier. Ultimately, everything fails.

"Democracy is the worst form of government…except for all the others."

-Churchill

In some ways, the US electoral system is communist depending on your definition. Think about it.

The system we have is certainly the best there has ever been. With a few tweaks like term limits for congress and the senate it could be a system that never fails. That is until the maker decides it is time.

 

[aberkowitz]

I don't view anything in black and white, but rather right and wrong. communism is dead wrong! To think otherwise is ignorant at best and a total disregard to history.

Isn't that the same thing? Is it not possible that what is "right" to you is "wrong" to other people?

 

[rnatalli]

The system we have is certainly the best there has ever been. With a few tweaks like term limits for congress and the senate it could be a system that never fails. That is until the maker decides it is time.

Every system fails. It's ups and downs with a slow progression towards up for humanity in general. By what metric does one claim it's the best there has ever been? The U.S. is very young by comparison to many. I'm fairly certain we will not outlast some of the greatest civilizations that inhabited the Earth.