This could be the end for now.

jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
It would seem to me that saying anyone that disagrees with your opinion is either stupid or brainwashed isn't being particularly respectful. :)
Not if you can back up what you say with proof and not just lib talking points:)
 
N

NicolasKL

Full Audioholic
I was not directing my post to him. It was in general that I was talking about.
Come on, does that really change anything? If I were to say that everyone named Jeff that owns Paradigms is a moron, would you not take offense because my post wasn't necessarily specifically directed at you?

Saying that people are stupid or brain washed is pointless. It's not an argument. It's not rational discourse. It's just useless name calling.

Using content free buzzwords like "anti-american" doesn't contribute anything either. It is, again, a substitute for actually making a specific, valid criticism of someone.

Just calling someone a communist isn't much of an argument either. This isn't the 50s. Is it impossible for someone that identifies with the communist party (or the socialist party) to contribute beneficially to our government? I don't think so.

What if they're specifically in charge of programs that are communist or socialist (or are supposed to be, anyway) to begin with? Like our educational system?
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Come on, does that really change anything? If I were to say that everyone named Jeff that owns Paradigms is a moron, would you not take offense because my post wasn't necessarily specifically directed at you?
Ha!, That might depend on how much you paid for them.:D

Sorry I am not holding back any more. I have had it with the political correctness. I am a nice guy but I am not taking it from libs anymore. It has cost this country too much.

Remember too this is the steam vent, and I am steamed over what these clowns on both sides are doing to this country.
 
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Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Not if you can back up what you say with proof and not just lib talking points:)
You mean like making an end run around the Posse Comitatus Act to create a Federal Domestic Army, usurping the authority of the States and their respective National Guard units. One of the first requirements of a totalitarian socialist state is to ensure that the entire nation is under the physical control of the central state authority. Better yet for the socialist head of state if the army subduing the domestic population is under the direct authority of the head of state, i.e. the president. Then whoever speaks out against the president can conveniently disappear. Yeah, Obama's private army.

You mean like demanding the House and Senate pass a massive and complex socialist health care bill that could not be read and understood by lawmakers within the deadline. Also to force a fundamental change in American health care without public consultation or input. This past election was not a referendum on health care and Obama does not have a mandate to force his agenda on the nation...but he does have the power and that's what characterizes a totalitarian...force over agreement.

Or do you mean public ownership of private corporations. Perhaps you simply mean the government control over the day to day operations of private companies, which technically isn't communism but is rather a defining characteristic of another form of socialism known as fascism.

Or perhaps you refer to his attempt to shut down the primary means of interpersonal communication, the internet. This president wants the power to shut down the internet on his own discretion or whim, presumably about the same time he deploys his federal domestic army?

It could simply be that you are referring to Obama's attack on any person of wealth and means with his tax increases. It's not that Obama has any moral or ethical reason to take that wealth. It's just because those people have money, Obama wants it and he has the power to take it. It could be that you're referring to the fact that this theft of wealth is just a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor as part of Obama's "stimulus plan". That is a defining characteristic of socialism.

I don't know, maybe the evidence of socialism you are looking for can be found in Obama's massive cap and tax plan which is just a punishment for American businesses employing Americans and producing products on American soil. The cap and tax plan is truly a global socialist plan that will decimate American production capacity, American employment and American capital while enriching poorer foreign nations. Why??? Because he has the power.

I'm sorry Jeff, but my examples may not be the proof that convinces anybody that Obama is indeed a socialist and does not have American citizens' best interests at heart in his quest to make America a victimized partner in the global socialist network. But then again, showing evidence of Obama's socialist agenda is not going to dissuade those who actually want and admire socialism in the first place.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
You mean like making an end run around the Posse Comitatus Act to create a Federal Domestic Army, usurping the authority of the States and their respective National Guard units. One of the first requirements of a totalitarian socialist state is to ensure that the entire nation is under the physical control of the central state authority. Better yet for the socialist head of state if the army subduing the domestic population is under the direct authority of the head of state, i.e. the president. Then whoever speaks out against the president can conveniently disappear. Yeah, Obama's private army.

You mean like demanding the House and Senate pass a massive and complex socialist health care bill that could not be read and understood by lawmakers within the deadline. Also to force a fundamental change in American health care without public consultation or input. This past election was not a referendum on health care and Obama does not have a mandate to force his agenda on the nation...but he does have the power and that's what characterizes a totalitarian...force over agreement.

Or do you mean public ownership of private corporations. Perhaps you simply mean the government control over the day to day operations of private companies, which technically isn't communism but is rather a defining characteristic of another form of socialism known as fascism.

Or perhaps you refer to his attempt to shut down the primary means of interpersonal communication, the internet. This president wants the power to shut down the internet on his own discretion or whim, presumably about the same time he deploys his federal domestic army?

It could simply be that you are referring to Obama's attack on any person of wealth and means with his tax increases. It's not that Obama has any moral or ethical reason to take that wealth. It's just because those people have money, Obama wants it and he has the power to take it. It could be that you're referring to the fact that this theft of wealth is just a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor as part of Obama's "stimulus plan". That is a defining characteristic of socialism.

I don't know, maybe the evidence of socialism you are looking for can be found in Obama's massive cap and tax plan which is just a punishment for American businesses employing Americans and producing products on American soil. The cap and tax plan is truly a global socialist plan that will decimate American production capacity, American employment and American capital while enriching poorer foreign nations. Why??? Because he has the power.

I'm sorry Jeff, but my examples may not be the proof that convinces anybody that Obama is indeed a socialist and does not have American citizens' best interests at heart in his quest to make America a victimized partner in the global socialist network. But then again, showing evidence of Obama's socialist agenda is not going to dissuade those who actually want and admire socialism in the first place.
Bravo Dave, you get the gold star. I am glad you saved me all that typing. :D
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Bravo Dave, you get the gold star. I am glad you saved me all that typing. :D
That was just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's other things I forgot or other things that Obama hasn't even told the American public yet.:eek:
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
You mean like making an end run around the Posse Comitatus Act to create a Federal Domestic Army, usurping the authority of the States and their respective National Guard units. One of the first requirements of a totalitarian socialist state is to ensure that the entire nation is under the physical control of the central state authority. Better yet for the socialist head of state if the army subduing the domestic population is under the direct authority of the head of state, i.e. the president. Then whoever speaks out against the president can conveniently disappear. Yeah, Obama's private army.

You mean like demanding the House and Senate pass a massive and complex socialist health care bill that could not be read and understood by lawmakers within the deadline. Also to force a fundamental change in American health care without public consultation or input. This past election was not a referendum on health care and Obama does not have a mandate to force his agenda on the nation...but he does have the power and that's what characterizes a totalitarian...force over agreement.

Or do you mean public ownership of private corporations. Perhaps you simply mean the government control over the day to day operations of private companies, which technically isn't communism but is rather a defining characteristic of another form of socialism known as fascism.

Or perhaps you refer to his attempt to shut down the primary means of interpersonal communication, the internet. This president wants the power to shut down the internet on his own discretion or whim, presumably about the same time he deploys his federal domestic army?

It could simply be that you are referring to Obama's attack on any person of wealth and means with his tax increases. It's not that Obama has any moral or ethical reason to take that wealth. It's just because those people have money, Obama wants it and he has the power to take it. It could be that you're referring to the fact that this theft of wealth is just a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor as part of Obama's "stimulus plan". That is a defining characteristic of socialism.

I don't know, maybe the evidence of socialism you are looking for can be found in Obama's massive cap and tax plan which is just a punishment for American businesses employing Americans and producing products on American soil. The cap and tax plan is truly a global socialist plan that will decimate American production capacity, American employment and American capital while enriching poorer foreign nations. Why??? Because he has the power.

I'm sorry Jeff, but my examples may not be the proof that convinces anybody that Obama is indeed a socialist and does not have American citizens' best interests at heart in his quest to make America a victimized partner in the global socialist network. But then again, showing evidence of Obama's socialist agenda is not going to dissuade those who actually want and admire socialism in the first place.
Thank you Dave, for putting that all together so elegantly. I'd wager that a large portion of the public, especially those that get their "knowledge" from the drive-by news media such as NBC, et al, would have little clue as to what you are talking about. (After all, isn't Palin and Michael Jackson more important to talk about than the our potential for economic collapse or loss of freedoms? ;)) But hopefully enough of them will care to look a little deeper, not only into the current administration's philosophies as you have them laid out, but to the facts of what Obama has done and what he (says he) wants to do...and actually realize the implications of those things.

His request for the huge militia is absolutely as scary as his and Bush's unbridled and historically disastrous growth of government and spending. All these other issues, such as his hiring self-avowed communists, socialists, and radicals, are also easily documented, but not easily refuted by his supporters (who usually resort to name-calling in defense). But I worry about the number of people who believe the Constitution is out of date and irrelevant. Those are the folks that are to be feared for their ignorance...thinking America became great because...we were what?...transformed by magical pixie-dust, or were born with better genes? I worry that they don't realize that it is/was our 'system' that made this the greatest nation on earth, and now have bought into the "fundamental change" kabuki dance.

This is truly an historic (and critical) time. I guess we'll soon see which way the scale tips.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thank you Dave, for putting that all together so elegantly. I'd wager that a large portion of the public, especially those that get their "knowledge" from the drive-by news media such as NBC, et al, would have little clue as to what you are talking about. (After all, isn't Palin and Michael Jackson more important to talk about than the our potential for economic collapse or loss of freedoms? ;)) But hopefully enough of them will care to look a little deeper, not only into the current administration's philosophies as you have them laid out, but to the facts of what Obama has done and what he (says he) wants to do...and actually realize the implications of those things.

His request for the huge militia is absolutely as scary as his and Bush's unbridled and historically disastrous growth of government and spending. All these other issues, such as his hiring self-avowed communists, socialists, and radicals, are also easily documented, but not easily refuted by his supporters (who usually resort to name-calling in defense). But I worry about the number of people who believe the Constitution is out of date and irrelevant. Those are the folks that are to be feared for their ignorance...thinking America became great because...we were what?...transformed by magical pixie-dust, or were born with better genes? I worry that they don't realize that it is/was our 'system' that made this the greatest nation on earth, and now have bought into the "fundamental change" kabuki dance.

This is truly an historic (and critical) time. I guess we'll soon see which way the scale tips.
I have a problem with those who voted for a candidate because "This is an historic election". That's so far from being the right reason to vote for someone I can't believe they even saw it as a valid reason. Oh, it will prove to be an historical election, that's for sure and it won't be for the reasons they were told.

Obama and Congress are making decisions for us without our input, the consent of the majority and without authority. I took a lot of heat before and just after the election for saying that I think Obama is a threat because he taught Constitutional Law for more thna 10 years and because of that, he has thought of ways to circumvent it's controls over government.

Taken from Wiki, ..."the famous preamble, includes the ideas and ideals that were principles of the Declaration. It is also an assertion of what is known as the "right of revolution": that is, people have certain rights, and when a government violates these rights, the people have the right to "alter or abolish" that government.[71]

From the Declaration of Independence, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

By taking from some and giving it to others, they are taking away the right to pursue happiness. People don't expect to work their whole lives and have it taken from them by any government. Maybe in some other countries, but not here.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
As predicted the conservatives feed lots of BS into the thread.

He's only raising taxes back to what they were in the 90s for those people. As I recall those were very good years for our nation.

He's hosted several town halls to discuss healthcare and is clearly letting everyone have input because your hatred toward him blinds you from being able to see the truth is tragic. I see the same effect in sports. Everyone seems to think their team is the best even if they get beat they make excuses. The fact is Obama did something I didn't even think was possible. He broke the color barrier in our country's presidency. He's doing fine as president and congress is doing fine running the country. Maybe some communism is good for us.

I love how the only tactic you guys seem to know is fear. You used it to keep Bush in office and now your using it to try and beat Obama. It's ok though I understand repeating lies and misinformation is the way our system seems to work these days.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
All good stuff guys. I only hope this country wakes up and is angry. It appears that some are starting to do just that so we can hope the trend continues.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
As predicted the conservatives feed lots of BS into the thread.

He's only raising taxes back to what they were in the 90s for those people. As I recall those were very good years for our nation.

He's hosted several town halls to discuss healthcare and is clearly letting everyone have input because your hatred toward him blinds you from being able to see the truth is tragic. I see the same effect in sports. Everyone seems to think their team is the best even if they get beat they make excuses. The fact is Obama did something I didn't even think was possible. He broke the color barrier in our country's presidency. He's doing fine as president and congress is doing fine running the country. Maybe some communism is good for us.

I love how the only tactic you guys seem to know is fear. You used it to keep Bush in office and now your using it to try and beat Obama. It's ok though I understand repeating lies and misinformation is the way our system seems to work these days.
This is so full of holes it is funny. First his town halls are a complete joke and so totally stacked and fake it's pathetic. You offered only talking points and not a shred of proof because everything that was just laid out in front of can not be refuted. It's hard to argue with facts huh?

The blind thing goes both ways too. Some people are so enamored with a team that they think that the team is the best even though the team sucks donkey feet and is about to make the hall of fame for the worst team to ever play the game.
 
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R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Once again, for the cheap seats, THE PRESIDENT CAN'T SEND THE MILITARY ANYWHERE WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS!
Don't want to get involved in the thread, but do want to point out an error. The president can declare war for six months without approval from anyone.
 
Everyone remember... if you're going to insult someone, please do it creatively, thoroughly and with enough gusto as to make it worth getting the red chicklets or banning you so desire... :)

Can't believe I had to red-chicklet one of my own mods... and I more or less agree with his basic tenets... lol.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
As predicted the conservatives feed lots of BS into the thread.
sometimes I think what one calls BS is what others call the simple truth which hurts.

He's only raising taxes back to what they were in the 90s for those people. As I recall those were very good years for our nation.
IIRC, this was right in the middle of the "dot.com" boom when stocks were rising based on empty promises, just like the current economic collapse, and the country was already flush with cash since The fall of the Berlin wall allowed us to cut back a bit on military spending. Come to think of it, why WERE they so high to begin with?

He's hosted several town halls to discuss healthcare and is clearly letting everyone have input because your hatred toward him blinds you from being able to see the truth is tragic. I see the same effect in sports. Everyone seems to think their team is the best even if they get beat they make excuses.
...and now dissent is called hatred? Are you saying you don't have any questions on how they are going to implement and pya for this? You just trust their judgment implicitly? Enjoy that Kool-aid. You'll just love when Obama's Army starts patrolling the streets.

The fact is Obama did something I didn't even think was possible. He broke the color barrier in our country's presidency. He's doing fine as president and congress is doing fine running the country. .
Obama did run a good campaign and fooled a lot of people. As for the popular vote, it was only 10 million votes, which isn't exactly a mandate. If you look at the voting demographics, you'll see that it only two blocks that were skewed enough to give him the election; The first time voters who couldn't, or didn't want to, tell the shiite from shinola in his promises and blacks, who, surprisingly, voted 95% for Obama. I'm sure that was all based on the issues.

Somehow, I think a lot of the "less committed" voters are having second thoughts about now and we may just have another Jimmy Carter on our hands.

With about 40 million blacks in this country and 95% voting for Obama, that alone was enough to give him the election. something tells me this will be more well publicised for the next election.

Maybe some communism is good for us
Now that's got to be the most incredibly stupid statement I've read in this thread. Maybe you should do a little research on what life was like under communism. Out here there are many immigrants (legal) that lived under it and from what they say, it ain't pretty.

I love how the only tactic you guys seem to know is fear. You used it to keep Bush in office and now your using it to try and beat Obama. It's ok though I understand repeating lies and misinformation is the way our system seems to work these days.
There's a difference between blind fear and waking up to seeing exactly what's happening, being able to see where we're headed, not liking it, and trying to do something about it.

Hopefully, you won't live to see the folly of your thinking. That's not wishing you dead, but rather hoping that those with more sense can stop the train before it goes over the cliff.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
This is so full of holes it is funny. First his town halls are a complete joke and so totally stacked and fake it's pathetic. You offered only talking points and not a shred of proof because everything that was just laid out in front of can not be refuted. It's hard to argue with facts huh?

The blind thing goes both ways too. Some people are so enamored with a team that they think that the team is the best even though the team sucks donkey feet and is about to make the hall of fame for the worst team to ever play the game.
And your statement isn't full of holes?

First from your posts you assume that he is a criminal hell bent on power and ruining the nation. You base this off stuff you heard from conservatively biased sources.

He did have town hall meetings that's a fact. He did answer questions people posed to him. He has agreed to compromise on a lot in the bill like dropping the public option.

The fact is our health care costs our out of control and our least expensive group(young adults) don't have access to reasonable health care in this country because the costs are outrageous. It costs me 200 bucks to go to the damn dentist for 30 minute appointment. Sorry I find that excessive. I can understand 60 or 70 bucks even 100, but 200 bucks is just ridiculous.

The final fact is we didn't have a real republican run for office in 2008. You expect me to vote in a liberal republican? That's a joke. Maybe if you offer a real candidate for president I'll vote for him.

You may want to pretend i'm a liberal and maybe compared to you I am, but in reality I'm at most a moderate. I've voted for more republicans in my life than democrats. That's a fact, but I could care less about parties and I ignore the ridiculous mud slinging.

The fact is we need health care reform badly in our nation and if things don't work out that's why we have elections. :)

This country is far from the toilet as far as I can tell, but maybe you've never seen a country close to one.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
.

Obama did run a good campaign and fooled a lot of people. As for the popular vote, it was only 10 million votes, which isn't exactly a mandate. If you look at the voting demographics, you'll see that it only two blocks that were skewed enough to give him the election; The first time voters who couldn't, or didn't want to, tell the shiite from shinola in his promises and blacks, who, surprisingly, voted 95% for Obama. I'm sure that was all based on the issues.


With about 40 million blacks in this country and 95% voting for Obama, that alone was enough to give him the election. something tells me this will be more well publicised for the next election.
I'm not going to get involved in the rest of this argument, but I had to point out a couple of flawed statistical arguments that were made here.

First- you make the claim that Obama "only" won by 10 million votes. From an absolute number perspective, that's the largest margin of victory since Reagan in 1984 and one of the top 3 margins of victory in the last 40 years (the Nixon landslide was the largest). You could try to make the claim that 53% of the vote isn't a mandate, but it's the largest since Bush 41 in 1988 and is also the 3rd largest in the last 40 years.

Second- African Americans have historically voted Democratic in ridiculously large percentages. Since 1964, >80% of this population has voted for the Democratic candidate in all but 3 elections (72, 84, and curiously 1992), and greater than 90% of African Americans voted for the democratic candidate in the last 3 elections. If you want to talk proportion, African Americans represented 12% of the vote in 2008, compared with 11% of the vote in 2004... not exactly a monumental increase.


To contrast this, the hispanic vote increased by 25% as a proportion of the total vote in 2008 compared to 2004.


Finally- One of the biggest drivers of the election was lower turnout among Republicans. 1.5% fewer self-declared republicans went to the polls in 2008 than in 2004. This decline was further exacerbated by the fact that 2.5% more democrats went to the polls compared to 2004.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I'm not going to get involved in the rest of this argument, but I had to point out a couple of flawed statistical arguments that were made here.

First- you make the claim that Obama "only" won by 10 million votes. From an absolute number perspective, that's the largest margin of victory since Reagan in 1984 and one of the top 3 margins of victory in the last 40 years (the Nixon landslide was the largest). You could try to make the claim that 53% of the vote isn't a mandate, but it's the largest since Bush 41 in 1988 and is also the 3rd largest in the last 40 years.

Second- African Americans have historically voted Democratic in ridiculously large percentages. Since 1964, >80% of this population has voted for the Democratic candidate in all but 3 elections (72, 84, and curiously 1992), and greater than 90% of African Americans voted for the democratic candidate in the last 3 elections. If you want to talk proportion, African Americans represented 12% of the vote in 2008, compared with 11% of the vote in 2004... not exactly a monumental increase.


To contrast this, the hispanic vote increased by 25% as a proportion of the total vote in 2008 compared to 2004.


Finally- One of the biggest drivers of the election was lower turnout among Republicans. 1.5% fewer self-declared republicans went to the polls in 2008 than in 2004. This decline was further exacerbated by the fact that 2.5% more democrats went to the polls compared to 2004.
Let's not forget the many republicans I know crossed the isle to vote for Obama. The republicans lost control and let the power get to their head.

I imagine in 8 years we'll have a republican president again though.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
And your statement isn't full of holes?

The final fact is we didn't have a real republican run for office in 2008. You expect me to vote in a liberal republican? That's a joke. Maybe if you offer a real candidate for president I'll vote for him.

You may want to pretend i'm a liberal and maybe compared to you I am, but in reality I'm at most a moderate. I've voted for more republicans in my life than democrats. That's a fact, but I could care less about parties and I ignore the ridiculous mud slinging.
Well we found something we agree on. You are correct there was not a conservative on the ticket. Well there was but she was the vice pick.

I never called you anything one way or the other. You only defend Zero like he was your god or something. You sure talk like a liberal sometimes. If you say your not then your not. I would still have a beer with you either way.

I can't believe Clint gave me a red chicklet in the steam vent:eek:
 

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