Say no to socialism!!!

[Nemo128]

Say what you will, don't really care, this is still great.

 

[Biggiesized]

I must have missed the point.

Sure we have everyday social programs provided by the government. Does that mean we should tack on more than what's necessary?

 

[griffinconst]

I see the problem with this is, it's a power grab. Do we want the government telling us anything about OUR medical decisions and spending more money that we don't have?
Let's just try to get prices down and cover the folks that can't get insurance. I think that is do-able and much cheaper.
The only thing that needs a TOTAL redo is our elected officials. They seem to represent themselves and each other, not their constituants.

 

[bandphan]

I must have missed the point.

Just wait for the Government tell ya

 

[mtrycrafts]

I see the problem with this is, it's a power grab. Do we want the government telling us anything about OUR medical decisions and spending more money that we don't have?
..

You mean your insurance company doesn't tell your doctor what he can or cannot do by paying or not paying for the procedure? What's the difference?

 

[Davemcc]

Maybe one day, you can wake up in your state supplied apartment with your state ordered room mates. You can check your state owned cupboards where the state rationed food should be if any had been in stock at the state food store. Then walk to the state owned bus that will take you to your state mandated workplace, performing tasks for the good of the state. On your way home, you can stop to watch a state sanctioned movie about the glory of the state. You will also have to take the state owned bus home again because the state built car that you ordered two years ago has not been built yet.

Your state trained and state compensated doctor will see you next year but will not be able to treat you because the state medicine supply is perpetually low and the state diagnostic machines are only available to state officials. Your children will still receive their state education. If they are good in math and science, they will be enlisted in the service of the state military. If they are good in languages and social studies, they will write and promote the state propaganda. If they just aren't any good at all in school, they will be assigned to a state factory. If you are lucky and raise your children to be sociopaths, they will be assigned to the state police force or invited to join the state party and become a political leader.

On your way home, you can check again at the state food store only to find it empty because the state owned grain stocks were exported for much needed foreign currency to support the operations of the state. It's not all bad though because your state rationed allotment of alcohol is always in full supply. You find yourself wishing that the state supply of firewood had been in stock so you could raise your state mandated apartment above freezing using the standard state supplied wood stove in your room that you share with another family. It's too bad, you think, that your state supplied blanket is threadbare and the state supply of blankets is out of stock. And as you fall asleep on your state supplied bed with your wife and children sharing your blanket for warmth, you can't thank God for the benefits of socialism because the state does not tolerate religion.

 

[basspig]

Here's my two-cents:

I'm opposed to ANY government that violates individual rights, whether that's through a tax, a regulation on what we can do with our own bodies, or junk science funded by anti-civilization fanatics. It all boils down to the choice to respect or disrespect individual rights. All other arguments are window dressing.

 

[Rickster71]

It's sounds like something from the John Stewart comedy show.
Since it has that half truth, tongue in cheek quality, that's exactly what every teen to thirty five year old mistakes as fact.

As for the other half that is true: I see the problem as the government growing too big and having too much control.
It was already too big and ineffective under Bush, and now lemmings want to grow it even bigger.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081903929.html
They can't even run the Cash For Clunkers program effectively. How can we trust them to run Health Care?

 

[Nemo128]

Yeah, obviously everyone missed the point.

The thing people love to complain about, how the government can't run anything correctly... you pretty much enjoy every aspect of government-run services on a daily basis. If someone could put a spin on those daily things, or skew them for some argument, you'd probably complain about those too.

Oh yeah, post your response to this with your internet connection, which wouldn't exist without your tax-funded government-developed information systems network... people are just pissed because it's something they don't agree with, and the ones that do agree with it will always bash the ones that don't (and vice versa).

Complain about the elected officials, you're the ones that keep them there. Don't like them? Think you can do better, since you individually know what's best for the hundreds of thousands, in some cases tens of millions? Do something about it. At least people like me, who feel that way, don't sit by talking about what's wrong with the system and actually try to do something about it. Win or lose, at least we try. What's your excuse...

True freedom is a fallacy of composition, because it would be devoid of laws and judgement. Most people don't want true freedom, they want the limited freedom that makes them feel safe and morally superior to others.

 

[Nemo128]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081903929.html
They can't even run the Cash For Clunkers program effectively. How can we trust them to run Health Care?

They can pay it out just fine if they jack up your taxes and cut more defense spending. But then, we'd complain about taxes and a deficient military.

Think politics and economics are easy? Get really into either field rather than reading about it as an outsider.

Politics and economics are the games of pleasing most of the people some of the time. Usually you can't do that, it winds up only being some of the people some of the time. But of course, everyone can do better than those doing it. That's why we have thousands of people running for public office every day.

 

[Rickster71]

They can pay it out just fine if they jack up your taxes and cut more defense spending. But then, we'd complain about taxes and a deficient military.

The Cash For Clunkers funding comes from the stimulus cash that's already there.

Think politics and economics are easy? Get really into either field rather than reading about it as an outsider.

That's where you're mistaken.
The proof is in the end result.
I don't have to work for the State or Federal Government to know how ineffective they are.
My wife deals with the IRS and the State Division of Taxation on a daily basis; a big percentage (not all) are political patronage jobs, or Affirmative Action hires. They can't, or won't do there jobs.

 

[markw]

What I find funny about "Cash for Clunkers" program is that they put an age limit on cars that qualify for it. They have to be less than 25 years old.

My buddy has a '79 Pontiac Bonneville with a V8 engine which gets abysmal mileage. It's not a "collector" car, just a dilapidated daily driver he uses locally.

When he went to see about trading it in, he was told it's too old!?! You would think this would be just the kind of car they want to remove from the roads, no?

 

[highfigh]

Say what you will, don't really care, this is still great.

These are government services and have nothing to do with socialism.

From Dictionary.com:
"a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."

 

[highfigh]

What I find funny about "Cash for Clunkers" program is that they put an age limit on cars that qualify for it. They have to be less than 25 years old.

My buddy has a '79 Pontiac Bonneville with a V8 engine which gets abysmal mileage. It's not a "collector" car, just a dilapidated daily driver he uses locally.

When he went to see about trading it in, he was told it's too old!?! You would think this would be just the kind of car they want to remove from the roads, no?

One of the local headlines this AM had to do with the drastic decline in donated vehicles to organizations that help troubled teens get back on track. This drop is directly attributed to CARS and it's something I mentioned when this BS program was first announced. This has so many problems it's hard to know where to start.

CARS is bad enough but the bailout of the automakers is just a big, government sponsored cash grab- the dealers already paid their hefty franchise fees, they paid for the cars in their inventory through floor-planning for whatever time they were in stock and when the automakers went through bankruptcy, the dealer agreements were immediately null and void. In some states, like Wisconsin, a car dealer who's not a franchisee can't sell that make of car as new, legally. They paid to have these cars in inventory and then they have to let someone else sell them.

The cars traded in will be scrapped- the cars bought are new and generally don't have a high repair rate- what will the service departments work on? They lose income, too. I have also heard that some of the dealers were dropped because of their political affiliation, too and it's being investigated.

Roll out 50 programs in 6 months without working out the details. That's the way for a government to operate. Oh, yeah.

And the headline I saw showed that 57% of Americans don't think the Stimulous Plan is working. With the media's bias, I wonder how accurate that is.

 

[highfigh]

Maybe one day, you can wake up in your state supplied apartment with your state ordered room mates. You can check your state owned cupboards where the state rationed food should be if any had been in stock at the state food store. Then walk to the state owned bus that will take you to your state mandated workplace, performing tasks for the good of the state. On your way home, you can stop to watch a state sanctioned movie about the glory of the state. You will also have to take the state owned bus home again because the state built car that you ordered two years ago has not been built yet.

Your state trained and state compensated doctor will see you next year but will not be able to treat you because the state medicine supply is perpetually low and the state diagnostic machines are only available to state officials. Your children will still receive their state education. If they are good in math and science, they will be enlisted in the service of the state military. If they are good in languages and social studies, they will write and promote the state propaganda. If they just aren't any good at all in school, they will be assigned to a state factory. If you are lucky and raise your children to be sociopaths, they will be assigned to the state police force or invited to join the state party and become a political leader.

On your way home, you can check again at the state food store only to find it empty because the state owned grain stocks were exported for much needed foreign currency to support the operations of the state. It's not all bad though because your state rationed allotment of alcohol is always in full supply. You find yourself wishing that the state supply of firewood had been in stock so you could raise your state mandated apartment above freezing using the standard state supplied wood stove in your room that you share with another family. It's too bad, you think, that your state supplied blanket is threadbare and the state supply of blankets is out of stock. And as you fall asleep on your state supplied bed with your wife and children sharing your blanket for warmth, you can't thank God for the benefits of socialism because the state does not tolerate religion.

"We'll pretend to pay you if you pretend to work".

 

[markw]

I suggest "Anonymous" take a course or two in economics.

Anonymous should take agood look at the two main economic systems, the "Market" system, or capitalism, wehre private ownership prevails but the governmet provides oversight and the "Command" systems, or Socialism/Ccommunism where the government owns and controls everything.

In a market economy, the government SHOULD provide the legal framework and services needed for the market economy to operate effectively. Without this, there is anarchy and no economy whatsoever.

And, while they are at it, perhaps they should explore the term "regulated monoply". These are a long, long way from owning the entities they need to oversee.

 

[rnatalli]

Here's my take. For all practical purposes, socialism and capitalism are not all that different for the average Joe. Under socialism, the state limits how far you can advance. Under capitalism, the top 2% do the same. I'm not naive enough to believe the free market is equal and fair for everyone because it isn't and never was. Under both systems, people life off the backs of others.

 

[lsiberian]

I think the post has merits and points out the need for government, but I think the others make a good point that government's do a lot of harm for every good they do. This happens to any large organization though. Most corporations have insanely high waste. The government is the worst offender these days. When you throw a stone in a pond it does more than just hit the water. It causes ripples. Problem is politicians don't know what the ripples are because they don't ask the folks who know. Just look at our education system. They give out new tests and because the students are doing too well they think they need a harder test? It couldn't possibly be the validation of the already overstressed and underpaid teachers. I'm secretely a fan of privatizing the education system because I feel teachers would finally get paid for performance not experience.

School's need competition that's open to all classes. so kids in the ghetto get a chance at an exemplary education like kids in the suburbs.

Equality she be in school opportunities. From there a person can live with their poor choices. If they are willing to change we'll give em chances, but if they choose drugs and gangs after having a chance to do something amazing with their life. Then I say let them live with the consequences. People in this country are far too coddled and need a swift kick in the rear IMO. When I was a kid they would beat you for misbehaving now they try to reason with kids. Tough love is needed in a hurry.

 

[Rickster71]

Yeah, obviously everyone missed the point.

Your point, while a bad one, was understood.

Sounds like you're confusing Government Regulated, (FCC, Dept of Energy) with Government Run and Controlled (like the Post Office)

The government rarely does anything better. Even with taxpayer subsidies, the U.S. Post Office can't figure out how to deliver mail or packages as well as UPS and FedEx.

September 11th happened because of multi-level government failure. (Too much to go into here.)
So, the solution to such government incompetence is to give the government more power?? It was wrong when Bush did it, and it's wrong now!

It's sad, since the 1930's our country has slouched toward Socialism, or more accurately just plain government growth. I view them as the same thing, both bad.

 

[redass]

I find it amazing that such a gray area issue seems to be argued in black and white terms. that is why the country is fubar, not because of socialism, communism and scary words. can't ever have anything moderate that makes sense in america.

private industry is good at making profit, and "profit" is not always the same as "best possible product" or "public well-being". Sure, sometimes it happens to be the same, but that is coincidental. Nobody ever insists that Hannah Montana or the Jonas Brothers are the best at anything other than making kids spend money. I don't want the Jonas Brothers of health care, which is what we have now. Maybe should we can Bose as an example of how profit doesn't always lead to a better product.

imo, this is the reason nobody ever wants to privatize the military... and it makes perfect sense to me; I don't think the military should be privatized, because I don't want our military chasing profit. It's just that nobody seems to want to admit the inconsistency here because they have to have faith in the private industry in order to march to their team's drums in this particular case. Government may be retarded, but at least you can have a bottom line that isn't profit.

you never hear anybody (at least in the political circle) say we should just throw out medicare and let private industry insure the old people, even though that'd take care of a huge portion of our financial burden as a nation, which is the real reason we need reform. insurance companies have already shown that the old folks are not worth insuring if you want to chase profits. I just don't see how you can make a business model that includes the old folks; insuring old people for medical care is the complete opposite of chasing profits.