Impressions of Salk SongTowers

[Matt34]

They sound very similar, not as much bass, but midrange and higher are very close to the ST.

I think the Salk Surround Is or IIs would make an excellent stereo pair at a lower cost than the SongTowers.

I'll see if Jim is bringing any to the Oregon meet in October, these might be perfect for a smaller apartment.

 

[ozmedia]

Bass response

Swerd,
As an owner of a pair of SongTowers I couldn't have said it any better! Excellent write-up. I would echo the comment about their bass response...simply outstanding. They are the best sounding speakers I have ever owned..hands down.

I just went to the US to auditioned a pair against RBH Signature series BOOKSHELF speakers and there was a noticable absence of bass response in the Salks compared to the ultra low reaching aluminum woof's of the RBH.

On their own it wasn't as noticable, but against a little RBH 6'5" aluminum woofer, even in their small cabinets, the RBH provided rich bass from depths the Salk's couldn't even think of offering up. At nearly double the price of the RBH, there was no contest for the listener to make his decision, though he did go with RBH towers in a custom wood finish instead of the bookshelf model.

Not to knock Salk in any way, but IMHO and as far as value for money, there are much better options out there at a much lower prices too.

The Salk Song Towers I heard had a ribbon tweeter that was supposed to be an upgrade, however it seemed quite sibilant compared to the ScanSpeak silk dome of the RBH, especially with the lack of bass response.

Again, just MHO, but I do this for a living and have developed a good ear for the most part.

Am I biased? Of cours ei am look at my avatar, but bias, in my books, is earned. I pushed Mission when they were the Hot item in the 80's, I pushed Paradigm when they were the hot item in the mid-to late 80's, these days my heart is in RBH; until I see and hear a better value for money, I think it'll stay that way too.

 

[Swerd]

I just went to the US to auditioned a pair against RBH Signature series BOOKSHELF speakers and there was a noticable absence of bass response in the Salks compared to the ultra low reaching aluminum woof's of the RBH.

What model RBH bookshelf speakers did you listen to?

 

[Matt34]

What model RBH bookshelf speakers did you listen to?

...and what Salks, they have a few different bookshelf models as well.

 

[Swerd]

...and what Salks, they have a few different bookshelf models as well.

Matt -- I believe he said he listened to SongTowers with ribbon tweeters.

I don't doubt that he liked the RBHs, but I think saying that a bookshelf model with a single 6½" woofer in a ported cabinet could produce better bass than twin 5¼" woofers in a tuned transmission line cabinet is doubtful. That's why I asked which model RBH speaker he meant.

If he meant the RBH 61-SE, RBH claims a believable 50 Hz as the F3 frequency. That is no contest to a SongTower's bass. It's more comparable to a SongSurround I.

 

[ozmedia]

What model RBH bookshelf speakers did you listen to?

61-SE/R but I would also run a pair of SE-61's against them and even the MC-6C with great confidence. Regardless of published bass response, the strength of the bottom end is incredible and the towers simply paled in comparison, though they were stil impressive as a speaker. Even the Salk owner agreed to, in fact I have had a few emails from him about buyign a pair since then.

The 61's are rated to 50Hz but that's VERYconservative, I think the Audioholics review noted similar too, there is just this incredible low reaching bass I haven't heard in a bookshelf before in the 25 years I've been working in the speaker industry.

If you are insistent on subwoofer like bbass response, the Signature series 1044' or 1266's will dance happy circles around the Salk Song towers, however, unless you can get them at a dealer price you will pay more for 1266 than the Salk's (which is to be expected) and the 1044's will be slightly lower in cost than the salk's unless you want a custom veneer, then they are similarly priced to Song Towers, but available in 30 real woodgrain finishes.


RBH's TK Series towers, recently dico'd were more comparable to teh Song Towers soundwise, with dual 5.25" fibrglass woofs and an 8" sub built-in. however they were retailign at $850.00/pr, I let my last pair go to a dealer for $500.00 flat.

They were reviewed here to, and amazed the writer who compared them to speakers more than twice the price Now they are no more but you can still get RBH's little sister produt from EMP (sold here) with slightly different cones at a fraction of that price again.

 

[ozmedia]

...and what Salks, they have a few different bookshelf models as well.

Song Tower QWT with ribbon tweeter upgrade. I rarely put an RBH bookshelf up against a competitors bookshelf, it simply isn't fair and usually upsets the owner. I always audition against the most expensive towers they' have on hand.

RBH builds their own product from proprietary drivers, thus they are able to offer a better speaker for less money. This is why, when I was talking to a Salk owner who agrees to demo his for those interested in Salk, I thought it would be a fair comparison, I was wrong.

RBH used to be an OEM designer/builder for some of the more famed "manufacturer's" over 30 years ago, (JBL, Fosgate, McIntosh, Parasound and others) so auditioning against similar priced speakers from other manufacturers isn't very fair. I have PO'd more than one retail soundroom owner when he realizes how much less expensive they are than competitive products they sell and how he can make more margin, selling a superior product for less money, but alas RBH are not available for retail sales.

 

[Matt34]

It's too bad RBH is really hard to get ahold of if your an average joe and not in the industry.

 

[Swerd]

61-SE/R but I would also run a pair of SE-61's against them and even the MC-6C with great confidence.

The 61's are rated to 50Hz but that's conservative, I think teh Audioholics review noted similar too, there is just this incredible low reaching bass I haven't heard in a bookshelf before in the 25 years I've been working in the speaker industry.

Until we have some reliable third party measurements of both speakers, I'd prefer to stick with the manufacturer's own ratings, conservative or not. RBH says 50-20,000 Hz ±3 dB for the 61-SE/R, and Salk says 42-20,000 Hz ±3 dB for the ST.

This isn't the first time I've heard it said that the ST lacks midbass punch. I had that initial impression as well -- but I was wrong. Being used to listening to bass reflex speakers, the bass from a transmission line cabinet sounded deceptively quiet at first. Bass only appears when the recording calls for it. After I found a few recordings with some prodigious bass, that I hadn't heard with my previous speakers, I soon changed my mind.

After getting used to the STs, if I hear some bass reflex speakers in a direct comparison, the bass from the reflex speaker sounds muddy and exaggerated. They sound like the bass port is sounding off all the time at a low level, regardless of the musical content. This tends to make the midrange sound muddy. Of course, like all verbal descriptions when trying to compare the sounds of speakers, these words tend to exaggerate the actual differences.

Perhaps you are used to listening to bass reflex speakers as well as there are relatively few commercially available transmission line speakers available.

What do the 61-SE/R and SE-61 cost? As a guess, the 61-SE/R looks like it costs more. I've never seen nor heard them. In the east coast (Wash, DC and Baltimore area) I've never found a dealer who carries them.

 

[Matt34]

What do the 61-SE/R and SE-61 cost? As a guess, the 61-SE/R looks like it costs more. I've never seen nor heard them. In the east coast (Wash, DC and Baltimore area) I've never found a dealer who carries them.

Audiophilequidator has them for $1200.

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=45&products_id=2539

 

[Swerd]

RBH's TK Series towers, recently dico'd were more comparable to teh Song Towers soundwise, with dual 5.25" fibrglass woofs and an 8" sub built-in. however they were retailign at $850.00/pr, I let my last pair go to a dealer for $500.00 flat.

They were reviewed here to, and amazed the writer who compared them to speakers more than twice the price Now they are no more but you can still get RBH's little sister produt from EMP (sold here) with slightly different cones at a fraction of that price again.

Since you mentioned the TK towers, Tom Andry, in his Audioholics review of the SongTowers, had several things to say directly comparing the STs and the RBH TK-5CTs. (I've bolded some lines that I thought were worth highlighting.)

Look in paragraph 4:

I hate that I use this album so much but I do. It just has what no one else does - tons of tracks that use phase variance to simulate sound moving around the room. I often (and did in the case) use this album when determining placement and toe-in. There are also a lot of tracks that have a good amount of bass (and bass sweeps) as well as rich female vocals. The SongTowers did well with this material presenting a good amount of bass extension while keeping a richness to the sound that was quite evident. At first I thought the RBH's beat out of the Salk speakers in extension but decided that I was hearing more boom and not lower notes. The Salk speakers seemed more natural in their bass notes than did the RBH TKs. The overall presentation was very lifelike (for the type of electronic music it is) without being overly bright. The soundstage wasn't the widest I've heard but it was sufficiently large for the space.

paragraph 6:

This album is absolutely brutal to speakers - tons of percussion and instruments all playing over the top of each other. Add to that, a male and two female singers in most songs. Many speakers will degenerate into a muddy mess when presented such challenging material. Not only did the Salks stay together, but they presented a more coherent picture than I have ever heard before. I was not hearing things I didn't know I wasn't supposed to not hear (confused? It makes sense, believe me). Where I was used to a "full" sound, I now recognized it as a "muddy" presentations on lesser speaker systems. The Salks had an unbelievable separation between each and every note. You might be thinking I just could have said they were "detailed" and left it at that. Well, sure, but what fun is that?

and paragraph 7:

Yet another album I use way too much in reviews. Here, I was looking for a number of things including female versus male vocals and detail. Once again I noticed that female vocals were closer to me in the soundstage than the male vocals (not as bad as before but still noticeable). I also noted a number of instruments that were much more lifelike than I was used to. There was a kick drum that had the exact right note, a high hat with just the right cling, and more. I also spent some time comparing the performance of the RBHs to the Salks. I hate to put down the RBHs but I have to say in comparison to the Salks they were muddy. There, I said it. Of course, remember the RBHs are less than half the price of the Salks so I would have hoped they would perform worse (even though in the past they compared favorably to higher priced speakers). I also compared the bass on the RBHs to the Salks and found that I honestly thought they sounded remarkably similar. The RBHs seemed a little boomy at times but the Salks seemed a little weak at others. I kept scratching out my notes and adding new ones just to change my mind the next moment. I did think that the linearity of the Salks was better and their bass detail was better at lower volumes. On the high end, it was no comparison. The Salks crushed the TKs in detail - there was just so much more there with the Salks. That being said, I still think the RBH's are a great value at their price. I also think that the Salks are an equally good value at their price point. Since the TK's received (at my recommendation) the Audioholics 2007 Product of the Year Tower speakers under $1k award, this is high praise indeed.

I understand your opinion can differ from mine, I have no problem with that. If you really want to promote RBH speakers, I also have no problem with that, but please find some facts that actually backup your opinions . Better yet, why not start your own thread instead of trying to disparage the SongTowers in this thread?

 

[Nuance AH]

I just went to the US to auditioned a pair against RBH Signature series BOOKSHELF speakers and there was a noticable absence of bass response in the Salks compared to the ultra low reaching aluminum woof's of the RBH.

On their own it wasn't as noticable, but against a little RBH 6'5" aluminum woofer, even in their small cabinets, the RBH provided rich bass from depths the Salk's couldn't even think of offering up. At nearly double the price of the RBH, there was no contest for the listener to make his decision, though he did go with RBH towers in a custom wood finish instead of the bookshelf model.

Not to knock Salk in any way, but IMHO and as far as value for money, there are much better options out there at a much lower prices too.

The Salk Song Towers I heard had a ribbon tweeter that was supposed to be an upgrade, however it seemed quite sibilant compared to the ScanSpeak silk dome of the RBH, especially with the lack of bass response.

Again, just MHO, but I do this for a living and have developed a good ear for the most part.

Am I biased? Of cours ei am look at my avatar, but bias, in my books, is earned. I pushed Mission when they were the Hot item in the 80's, I pushed Paradigm when they were the hot item in the mid-to late 80's, these days my heart is in RBH; until I see and hear a better value for money, I think it'll stay that way too.

I've got to be honest, the fact that you admitted you are bias makes your experience/opinion moot. It's VERY difficult to get passed bias, I should know; I'll be the first to admit it. It's ruins your ability to perceive what you hear. You say you've done this a long time, but being bias ruins any rep you might have. No offense. However, to give you the benefit of the doubt, where and when did you hear the SongTower RT's? Is the person that had you over for an audition a member of this forum? What were the room acoustics like? How was the comparo conducted?

As Swerd mentioned, it seems that A) You're totally bias towards RBH (you even hinted that you are a dealer, which completely makes your statement useless), and B) You prefer boomy, muddy bass to natural sounding bass. But hey, that's cool; you can prefer muddy, boomy bass. This hobby is very opinionated/subjective, and all that matters is that you find something you like. But to insist that the RBH speakers would "dance happy circles" around the SongTower's and that RBH makes a better speaker for less money is both foolish and ignorant. It also proves to me that you don't have as much experience as you claim, because if you did you wouldn't make such silly statements. This hobby is way too subjective to make said statements; something you should know. Not to mention you haven't even compared the Salk's to the other RBH speakers you mentioned, let alone under bias controlled conditions. You haven't even heard any of Salk's other offerings, but claim RBH is a superior company? Please...

Sorry dude, I just can't put any faith into your claims. I am happy that you are enjoying your RBH system, though. That's all that matters.

 

[Nuance AH]

Until we have some reliable third party measurements of both speakers, I'd prefer to stick with the manufacturer's own ratings, conservative or not. RBH says 50-20,000 Hz ±3 dB for the 61-SE/R, and Salk says 42-20,000 Hz ±3 dB for the ST.

This isn't the first time I've heard it said that the ST lacks midbass punch. I had that initial impression as well -- but I was wrong. Being used to listening to bass reflex speakers, the bass from a transmission line cabinet sounded deceptively quiet at first. Bass only appears when the recording calls for it. After I found a few recordings with some prodigious bass, that I hadn't heard with my previous speakers, I soon changed my mind.

After getting used to the STs, if I hear some bass reflex speakers in a direct comparison, the bass from the reflex speaker sounds muddy and exaggerated. They sound like the bass port is sounding off all the time at a low level, regardless of the musical content. This tends to make the midrange sound muddy. Of course, like all verbal descriptions when trying to compare the sounds of speakers, these words tend to exaggerate the actual differences.

Perhaps you are used to listening to bass reflex speakers as well as there are relatively few commercially available transmission line speakers available.

What do the 61-SE/R and SE-61 cost? As a guess, the 61-SE/R looks like it costs more. I've never seen nor heard them. In the east coast (Wash, DC and Baltimore area) I've never found a dealer who carries them.

+1. This is exactly what I was thinking. It's likely that the RBH was engineered with a midbass exaggeration, or he was hearing port noise.

Ozmedia,

This is a Salk thread. Take your RBH fanboyism to the RBH thread. This is a Salk fanboyism thread )), and you don't see me or anyone else interfering with any RBH threads talking about how Salk, or Paradigm or Revel, etc is a much better speaker for the money. I am happy that you like what you like, but start a new thread or take it to the appropriate thread. You should also put in your signature that you're an RBH dealer, though it's fairly obvious.

 

[Robof83]

This doesn't necessarily represent the songtowers, but the Salk HT-3 which goes for about $4500 a pair was compared to an RBH speaker costing $8500 and several other speakers in the $10,000 + range and the Salk speaker trumped them all.

Making blanket statements like "Company A is better then company B" is never advised and honestly just shows a persons ignorance/bias.

Looking at it from a completely objective base, Salk is most likely going to be able to put out a better speaker for the money because they are basically a DIY speaker. Because they are so close to DIY they have incredibly low overhead. Most likely the only the way to get better performance/price is to DIY yourself.

 

[Nuance AH]

Good point Robof83.

And for the record, I don't care if someone doesn't like Salk, or Revel or even Audioholics forum (all those things I like, of course). It's when someone makes foolish remarks based on speculation that burns my britches.

Anyway, all that matters is you find something you really love. I think it's pretty obvious Swed and I have done that, but it doesn't mean you have to love the same products. In the end if you're happy then forget everything else.

Enjoy what you have folks, cause you can't take it with you when you die.

 

[Chu Gai]

I'd be curious what the comparo would've been had there been a curtain, no?

 

[Robof83]

I'd be curious what the comparo would've been had there been a curtain, no?

It's impossible to say, but you can be certain that bias did play a role in the comparison.

 

[Swerd]

...Looking at it from a completely objective base, Salk is most likely going to be able to put out a better speaker for the money because they are basically a DIY speaker. Because they are so close to DIY they have incredibly low overhead. Most likely the only the way to get better performance/price is to DIY yourself.

That's exactly why I was first attracted to Salk speakers. They are designed by one of the best DIY designers, and built by a small team of craftsmen who have much better woodworking skills, shop, and materials than I will ever have. And yes, they were all once, or still are, DIY amateurs.

 

[hawkerman]

This has been a great thread. I am very interested in the SongTowers. Does anyone have any direct comparisons to the Aperion 6T's. The Aperions have also gotten very excellent reviews. I am currently looking at SongTowers, Aperion 6T, Axiom M80, and Paradigm Studio 100. These would be for 100% 2 channel music in a living room paired with probably an Emotiva XPA-2.

 

[Swerd]

…Does anyone have any direct comparisons to the Aperion 6T's. The Aperions have also gotten very excellent reviews. I am currently looking at SongTowers, Aperion 6T, Axiom M80, and Paradigm Studio 100. These would be for 100% 2 channel music in a living room paired with probably an Emotiva XPA-2.

Look for posts in this thread from BoB/335 for a SongTower - Axiom M80 comparison. He also posted on Audiocircles, where there is a dedicated Salk Speaker forum. Search for posts there under the same moniker.

I believe Warpdrv owns or has owned Paradigm Studio 100s and has heard SongTowers.

I can't remember anyone who compared them with the Aperion 6T. I guess you're well aware of this, but of the four speakers you mentioned, the Aperions are in a much lower price category. STs cost about 2½ times more.