RX-V2700 does not sound great with Bose AM 15III

[craj999]

I have used the YPAO and then change the decible levels of the center channel speaker to have the dialog lift. If I use the standard settings, the bass is too much but the music / dialog (for a movie) seem dampenned. How can I best set up these for optimal sound?

I dont listen to music too loud, but I prefer the sound to be perfectly mixxed (not too much bass).

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

I didn't see a manual for the Acoustimass 15 Series III, but I did find one for the Acoustimass 15 Series II and Acoustimass 16 (available here). I'm assuming that the setup is similar, but perhaps you could check out the manual for which I provided a link and make sure of that.

Based upon that manual, it looks like you want to set up the levels of the satellite speakers using the settings on the Yamaha, but you need to set up the bass level on the Acoustimass bass module. I think that you'll want to set all of the speakers settings to "LARGE" on the Yamaha, as well. So, my advice would be to do that and see if you can get the bass to be at an acceptable level with the rest of the speakers. If you still can't, or if you've already done that, just let us know so that we can look into this further.

 

[craj999]

My settings

Thanks for the quick response Adam,

I did follow the manuals when I set up the system the manuals for the bose is similar to the ones you mentioned there. the speaker settings are set to large and I reduced the bass on the Bass module.

At General usage, I watch movies (I connect the HDMI directly to tv and have co-axial digital audio connection to my receiver), I set the volume at 35db.

At the same time when I set the Receiver to 7ch stereo, the audio sounds great including CDs.

Can it be the DVD player? My Brother in law has a Marantz receiver and custom speakers but the same dvd player (philips 5982) and the dialog is so crisp at even lowest levels...I feel very disappointed having spent so much on the receiver.

 

[Seth=L]

Adam,

Setting satellite speakers to large is probably not the best thing to do for 3 specific reasons. Reason # 1, they are small speakers with a low power tolerance, sending a full range signal to them could damage them from transients. Reason # 2, since there is a subwoofer present to handle low frequency there is no reason for the speakers to receive the same bass signal they subwoofer does (completely disregarding the fact that the Bose sats don't output bass anyway). Reason # 3, it makes harder work for the receiver, not that Bose speakers are difficult for any basic receiver to drive to destruction.

craj999,

I would suggest setting the receiver's x-over to around 200hz and setting all speakers to small. Beyond that, your limitations will primarily lie fundamentally with your speaker system.

Don't be dissapointed in your receiver, it's not remotely the receiver's fault for lacking audio performance. Your brother in law's speakers are likely superior to yours and that's the advantage you where hearing. Also, definitely not the DVD player.

If you want to upgrade your sound start by upgrading your front left, right, and center speakers. After than you could either upgrade the subwoofer or surrounds.

Good luck,

Seth

 

[craj999]

Thanks for the suggestion

Seth,

Adams right in suggesting that I should set the speaker settings to large...it is also suggested in the manual of Bose that we should set the speaker type to large...because all the output from the receiver goes to the active Bass module which probably processes them before sending it to the smaller speakers.

I will surely try the bass x-over settings and check the output, I will post the results tomorrow.

 

[Seth=L]

The Bose subwoofer doesn't have a LFE input, you have to connect each speaker lead to the subwoofer then connect the subwoofer to each sat?

 

[Adam]

The Bose subwoofer doesn't have a LFE input, you have to connect each speaker lead to the subwoofer then connect the subwoofer to each sat?

Seth, if you check out the manual to which I linked (it's very short), you can see how it's set up. The bass module connects to the receiver using the speaker level connections and the subwoofer output, and then the satellite speakers connect to the bass module. The bass module handles all of the bass management for the speaker system.

 

[Seth=L]

craj999,

How long ago did you purchase the Bose system?

Seth, if you check out the manual to which I linked (it's very short), you can see how it's set up. The bass module connects to the receiver using the speaker level connections and the subwoofer output, and then the satellite speakers connect to the bass module. The bass module handles all of the bass management for the speaker system.

Adam,

Do I even have to say anything. Page 11 is a clear example of why I............ I just can't do this.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have used the YPAO and then change the decible levels of the center channel speaker to have the dialog lift. If I use the standard settings, the bass is too much but the music / dialog (for a movie) seem dampenned. How can I best set up these for optimal sound?

I dont listen to music too loud, but I prefer the sound to be perfectly mixxed (not too much bass).

Any suggestions are welcome.

If you have searched these forums, you will know that getting anything approaching realistic or satisfying sound from Bose speakers, is impossible.

There are sound technical reasons why this is so. So I'm sorry to be the one to level with you, but you are beating your head against the proverbial wall.

It is just not fair to lead you on, and let you think this is in anyway a solvable problem, except by getting your Bose speakers out of your system.

 

[Adam]

Some people like Bose, some people don't. The question was how to set up the existing speakers to get the most out of them.

 

[TLS Guy]

Some people like Bose, some people don't. The question was how to set up the existing speakers to get the most out of them.

And there are some that enjoy masochism.

You are correct that the speaker settings need to be large. The LFE output is captured. The bass module does the bass management and combines the LFE channel, so that the bass module which is not a sub can use what it can of it.

The problem with the Bose system are these.

The satellites are far too small, and don't reach down low enough to meet the bass module.

The bass modules are poorly conceived coupled cavity devices. They have high distortion from their configuration and orders.

Bose do not publish any specifications or test results, because they don't want customers to know what a botched affair they are.

I have heard these speakers many times, and clearly the bass modules are tuned with a high Q, to give a boomy bass to try and mask the chasm between the bass module and the satellites.

You can like Bose speakers, but your reference point is aberrant if you do, and you are not a reliable critic of audio systems..

It is pretty clear to me that the OP does not like the sound of Bose speakers.
He can use YPAO all he wants but it won't make it sound any better. In fact it will likely try and tame the upper end of the bass module, and boost where the satellites trail off. This will stress the satellite speakers and very likely damage them.

 

[Adam]

And there are some that enjoy masochism.

Well played.

You can like Bose speakers, but your reference point is aberrant if you do, and you are not a reliable critic of audio systems.

Not necessarily. One can still like Bose without thinking that they fully reproduce the entire audio spectrum without flaw.

My point was only this - the OP wanted help in setting up an existing system, but there was no advice sought (yet) on replacement gear. IMO, we as a community can try to optimize what someone owns without judging it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well played.


Not necessarily. One can still like Bose without thinking that they fully reproduce the entire audio spectrum without flaw.

My point was only this - the OP wanted help in setting up an existing system, but there was no advice sought (yet) on replacement gear. IMO, we as a community can try to optimize what someone owns without judging it.

Not reproducing the whole audio spectrum is one thing. There are and have been many table radios, that cut of the top and high end, that can be a very cheerful listen.

However a device with peaks and troughs in what it does reproduce, and introduces other errors, such as high distortion, especially of the non linear variety never will be. I think this is very much accepted from studies with listening panels over many years. In other words since of commission are far less well tolerated than sins of omission.

 

[Adam]

I hear ya, Mark. I'm not a fan of Bose after having auditioned them - but that doesn't mean that others don't like them.

 

[Pyrrho]

I have used the YPAO and then change the decible levels of the center channel speaker to have the dialog lift. If I use the standard settings, the bass is too much but the music / dialog (for a movie) seem dampenned. How can I best set up these for optimal sound?

I dont listen to music too loud, but I prefer the sound to be perfectly mixxed (not too much bass).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Adam has been giving you good advice on how to set them up. Because of the way the subwoofer works in your system, you have a more complicated than usual process of setting things up. You must manually set the subwoofer lower if it is giving you too much bass. Look at page 13 of the manual to which Adam provided a link, where it says:

Adjusting the LFE level

The LFE (low-frequency effects) level control on your powered Acoustimass module increases or decreases the relative level of low-frequency effects on movie sound tracks. Use it to regulate the presence of these underlying deep bass sounds. Use the “test tones” feature in your digital surround sound receiver to match the volume levels for each of the cube speakers. Then use the LFE control on the Acoustimass module to match the volume of the LFE channel to the cube speaker channels.

Adjusting the bass/room compensation level

This feature will allow you to fine-tune your system after you have placed the Acoustimass module in your selected location. If the room sounds “thin” or lacks bass, turn the BASS control in a clockwise direction to increase the bass level of the module. If the room sounds “boomy” or has too much bass, turn the knob in a counter-clockwise rotation to reduce the bass level of the module. The factory or detent setting is appropriate for a majority of listening situations.

Setting your digital surround sound receiver

Your Acoustimass 16 or Acoustimass 15 Series II speakers are fully compatible with the output from digital surround receivers. Integrated Signal Processing assures full bass reproduction for all channels regardless of receiver settings. However, the following table suggests a set of recommended receiver settings. The cube speaker arrays should be set to LARGE in the receiver’s digital display menu. The LFE, or subwoofer, is set to ON. If applicable, the crossover value should be set to the lowest number possible, typically 80 Hz.

Speaker Receiver setting
Left and right LARGE
Center LARGE
Left and right surround LARGE
Center surround* LARGE
LFE/Subwoofer ON

Of course, you should verify that the manual for your speakers says the same thing; follow what it says in your manual.

Thanks for the quick response Adam,

I did follow the manuals when I set up the system the manuals for the bose is similar to the ones you mentioned there. the speaker settings are set to large and I reduced the bass on the Bass module.

At General usage, I watch movies (I connect the HDMI directly to tv and have co-axial digital audio connection to my receiver), I set the volume at 35db.

At the same time when I set the Receiver to 7ch stereo, the audio sounds great including CDs.

Can it be the DVD player? My Brother in law has a Marantz receiver and custom speakers but the same dvd player (philips 5982) and the dialog is so crisp at even lowest levels...I feel very disappointed having spent so much on the receiver.

Once you have it set up properly, if you don't like the way it sounds, it is virtually certain to be either a problem with the acoustics in your room, or you simply do not like your speakers. The DVD player and the receiver, if functioning properly, are properly connected, and are properly set up, are not going to be causing dialog to be unclear.

I own the Yamaha RX-V2700, and it is a fine receiver. My dialog is crystal clear. But I am using Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE (original U.S. version) speakers, not Bose AM 15III.


Edited to add:

What, exactly, is the problem with the dialog? If the dialog does not appear to be coming out of the center front, but instead seems more diffused, coming out of various channels, then it is a problem with the settings in your receiver. If you are using the 7ch stereo setting, it is likely that the dialog will be distributed to more than one channel. I recommend using a plain surround decoder for movies: "SUR. DECODE"; see page 84 of the manual for the Yamaha. Within the options for "SUR. DECODE", the most plain is DPL. Try that and see if you still have the problem. If that takes care of your problem, you might want to experiment with the other settings under the heading "SUR. DECODE" discussed in the manual starting on page 84, as you might prefer some other setting. But start with DPL and see if that takes care of your problem.

 

[lsiberian]

You might try selling the Bose system. Bose systems aren't really designed to interface with receivers. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole.

If you prefer the small kind of speakers there are systems I suggest as suitable(and actually superior soundwise) replacements. Some are very low in cost

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFKHT1005S/KEF/KHT1005-Uni-Q-Sattelite-Subwoofer-Speaker-Package-in-Silver-/1.html

The above is an insanely good deal on the lowest KEF line. I'm not kidding

The package sells normally at 500 dollars

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFKHT20053BLK/KEF/KHT2005.3-5.1-Speaker-Package-w/-Kube2-sub-in-BLACK/1.html

These speaker my surrounds which for their size are very impressive

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFKHT3005SLVSE/KEF/KHT3005SE-5.1-Home-Theater-Speaker-Package-in-Silver-NEW-/1.html

Those are the best small speakers I've ever heard. I consider them to be everything bose claims to be, but fails to be for a small speakers

You can also check out the Mordaunt Shorts.

And you might look around for Mirage Nanosats too.

Good luck with your system.

 

[Audioholics]

I would suggest setting the receiver's x-over to around 200hz and setting all speakers to small. Beyond that, your limitations will primarily lie fundamentally with your speaker system.

Bad advice for Bose as the bass module handles all crossover duties. Always set every speaker to Large and set the subwoofer out to NONE.

 

[Adam]

...and set the subwoofer out to NONE.

Clint, are you sure about that? The module has an input for the subwoofer output from a receiver (for LFE, I believe). I don't know if it's better to use that input or just direct the LFE signal to the front speakers in the receiver settings, though.

 

[markw]

Question.

I have used the YPAO and then change the decible levels of the center channel speaker to have the dialog lift. If I use the standard settings, the bass is too much but the music / dialog (for a movie) seem dampenned. How can I best set up these for optimal sound?

I dont listen to music too loud, but I prefer the sound to be perfectly mixxed (not too much bass).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Have you used these speakers in HT applications with other receivers and been satisfied with them in the past?

 

[Seth=L]

Bad advice for Bose as the bass module handles all crossover duties. Always set every speaker to Large and set the subwoofer out to NONE.

Forgive my unfamiliarity with Bose's stellar products.