Onkyo's TX-SR80X series intends to stay out of the heavyweight division

Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
The right rear corner of my Integra 9.8 can get too hot to leave your hand on it for more than a second or two. I haven't recorded the actual temperature at that location but let's just say that I'm glad there is no amp section in there.
I think that Dave's post speak for itself.

And as for Jostenmeat saying the HUGE difference in temperature between the 6 ohms and 4 ohms positions, I absolutely disagree with him. There is a difference, for sure, but it is NOT a HUGE difference. It's few degrees less, from 4 to 9 degrees, depending on some of your other settings.

Maybe my facts are not the same facts as you, Jostenmeat; but it's not really my concern at this point. I don't have any concern on this specific matter (heat), others seems to then. I think it would be simply best to discuss the points that counts, because for me, this is not a priority. Just look at this post from Dave, that's pretty clear to me. How much clearer that that do you really need?

Regards to all parties,
Bob
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
It's a shame Onkyo is following suit and skimping their amp sections little by little. I guess we can only hope HK and Marantz stick to their guns and keep putting good amp sections into their receivers.
Well I think you may be looking at this incorrectly. Onkyo did something completely out of the ordinary with the TX-SR805, and it's possible that they had kickback from other companies (I have theories about this). Any company out there could make a super low cost receiver that would perform phenominally and could literally put all other competitors out in the cold if they didn't follow suite. But truth be told, that's just not profitable. The TX-SR805 is a fluke, it's not likely we'll see a repeat of a receiver in that price class that can dish out with it did.

I mainly started this thread to inform any that where interested, that not much has changed since the TX-SR806, and we'll be stuck with a more comparitive model to the competition. Make no mistake, Onkyo's lines are still very competitive and good for the money given present competition. The only company I felt that fell short this year for their line up (not including Sony, NAD, and a few other brands that are considered higher end "brands") was Yamaha. Their lower line models are using integrated output devices and smaller power supplies to lessen cost. I do not approve of such cheapening.

Pioneer seems to gone in a very intelligent direction with their line, offering HDMI audio support at $200 for the VSX-519, which sports discrete output devices, which is very strange considering that until now they've been using ICs for the past decade in their lower models.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I think that Dave's post speak for itself.

And as for Jostenmeat saying the HUGE difference in temperature between the 6 ohms and 4 ohms positions, I absolutely disagree with him. There is a difference, for sure, but it is NOT a HUGE difference. It's few degrees less, from 4 to 9 degrees, depending on some of your other settings.

Maybe my facts are not the same facts as you, Jostenmeat; but it's not really my concern at this point. I don't have any concern on this specific matter (heat), others seems to then. I think it would be simply best to discuss the points that counts, because for me, this is not a priority. Just look at this post from Dave, that's pretty clear to me. How much clearer that that do you really need?

Regards to all parties,
Bob
The 4 ohm setting reduces the rail voltage, which could significantly reduce operating temp for the amp section.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I think that Dave's post speak for itself.
You are being obtuse. First of all, he doesn't have an amp section, and there isn't any kind of comparison available. Secondly, his VP is comprised of Reon, and that has been known to run significantly hotter than the 805's VP. Reread the threat title. 9.8 does not equal 80x. Neither does the 876. Nor the 906.

And as for Jostenmeat saying the HUGE difference in temperature between the 6 ohms and 4 ohms positions, I absolutely disagree with him. There is a difference, for sure, but it is NOT a HUGE difference. It's few degrees less, from 4 to 9 degrees, depending on some of your other settings.
I wasn't the one stating it as FACT. Sheesh. The difference is easily double digit figures. If you REALLY REALLY wanted me to retest, tell me the parameters of the test, and I can do it for you. You lose, I give you a red chicklet. You win, I give you a green chiclet. I don't know what else to bet, but it would be funny to give you one. Or instead if I win, I put you on ignore for 1 year, like it's been for a while at AVS, and if you win I have to keep reading your posts for at least one more year. Up to you. I'll be fair and honest.

Now, I don't know how much unit to unit variation there is with temperature, but I can tell you that your fact is an untruth.

Maybe my facts are not the same facts as you, Jostenmeat; but it's not really my concern at this point.
Obviously not. You're the one who brought it up.

I don't have any concern on this specific matter (heat), others seems to then. I think it would be simply best to discuss the points that counts, because for me, this is not a priority. Just look at this post from Dave, that's pretty clear to me. How much clearer that that do you really need?

Regards to all parties,
Bob
I absolutely agree that this is a stupid argument. I'm still willing to do a test if you wish. I'd rather not leave my PJ on, but if that's the only way, I will still consider it.

How about sometime later this week, I leave it on at 4ohm for ... say .... 45 min (?), then put it at 6 ohm for another 45 min. I'll use the temp monitor at both settings at the 45 min intervals. Or if they need to be longer intervals, I can do that as well. Whatever.

My 805 is 2nd component from the bottom of a studio tech modular rack. I can leave all other components as off. It sits above a NAD mch amp. There is not much space above the actual receiver, however, it is an open rack on all 4 sides. There is about 2" above the receiver, and a solid half foot between receiver/rack and the wall.

Or whatever. If you don't want to do the bet, then try to refrain from stating it as fact! Please!

cya tomorrow.
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
You are being obtuse. First of all, he doesn't have an amp section, and there isn't any kind of comparison available. Secondly, his VP is comprised of Reon, and that has been known to run significantly hotter than the 805's VP. Reread the threat title. 9.8 does not equal 80x. Neither does the 876. Nor the 906.



I wasn't the one stating it as FACT. Sheesh. The difference is easily double digit figures. If you REALLY REALLY wanted me to retest, tell me the parameters of the test, and I can do it for you. You lose, I give you a red chicklet. You win, I give you a green chiclet. I don't know what else to bet, but it would be funny to give you one. Or instead if I win, I put you on ignore for 1 year, like it's been for a while at AVS, and if you win I have to keep reading your posts for at least one more year. Up to you. I'll be fair and honest.

Now, I don't know how much unit to unit variation there is with temperature, but I can tell you that your fact is an untruth.



Obviously not. You're the one who brought it up.



I absolutely agree that this is a stupid argument. I'm still willing to do a test if you wish. I'd rather not leave my PJ on, but if that's the only way, I will still consider it.

How about sometime later this week, I leave it on at 4ohm for ... say .... 45 min (?), then put it at 6 ohm for another 45 min. I'll use the temp monitor at both settings at the 45 min intervals. Or if they need to be longer intervals, I can do that as well. Whatever.

My 805 is 2nd component from the bottom of a studio tech modular rack. I can leave all other components as off. It sits above a NAD mch amp. There is not much space above the actual receiver, however, it is an open rack on all 4 sides. There is about 2" above the receiver, and a solid half foot between receiver/rack and the wall.

Or whatever. If you don't want to do the bet, then try to refrain from stating it as fact! Please!

cya tomorrow.
Maybe my facts are not the same facts as you
Just to straigten this mess of a statement out. Facts are facts, and they aren't debatable. Stating things as fact in a cavelier fashion without presenting anything short of proof is diplorable nonsense at best. I'm sorry, but 10,000 AVS user's testimonials isn't enough to place something in the category of "fact", although it may be a pretty good sign it may be true. Consider this, the folks on audiokarma mostly believe that cables have their own sound signature, but cold facts completely denounce their claims, but they still claim there are differences. Stating fact without proof is not fact.;)
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
^ Wow! I guess you just speak your heart Josten.

I won't go through all, point by point like you just did, just for the sake of some variation in it.
I don't bet anymore. And what I know, and what you know, is very similar, but with different parallels.
I always thought of you as a great guy, and I still am.
I got so much that I want to say, but I'm only a Frenchman, with a very poor vocabulary. And I don't know how to explain things properly.

I'm very sorry to have cause such deception in my life and to so many people.
I deserve to be strongly punished, most of the people in all the audio forums that I'm still part of, or that discarded me, just cannot stand me. I feel great shame in my very bad behaviour. I'm so sorry again. I need to ask forgiveness, cause I still believe that there is a good person left in me.
Perhaps I'm wrong, I just don't know anymore. I need to grow up. I need to post less.

I need to be quiet, diplomatic, peaceful, charitable, get my facts straight, get my life in order, sell my hot 805, sell my hot 876, give it all up on the things I love, choose a new vocation, stop attracting bad rep, make peace with myself and everyone else, purge my sentance, wait for death to knock at my door, play more guitar, change the cords for a new set of strings, stop using a pick, play more acoustic, play my Alto flute, sing with the birds, talk to God, stop signing cheques, put money in a bank, get some food in my fridge, play poker with my friends using chicklets of different color instead of money, study new technics on friendlyness, reread my good books on the 10 commandments, reread my Bible too, call the Pope for some serious advice, stop reading all the junk about Fidel Castro & Michael Jackson, call my Mom and tell her how much I miss her, call Dad before he pass away, learn to write English, stop bleeding, increase my heart rate, go see a doctor about getting a new skin, check my mail more often, excercise more like I used to, get a new class 1 driver licence, get my passport too, call my pension plan, ask them for a delay, see if I can get there before they get to me, fix my computer, get the viruses out, double-check my modem, buy an i-pod, get used to compressed music, start to like it, see if I can plug an USB adaptor in my stereo system, get a laptop for the bedroom, ask my wife to leave with me, smell the neighboor garden, put rocks in my driveway, get a new snow shovel, ask for some rain, it's getting really hot around here, talk less and act more, preach what I do and do what I preach, go fishing with my son, repair the boat, buy some fishing rods, dig a hole for warms, eat less cereals in the late mornings, stop cafeine and smoking, buy healty food, spinach, molasses, beans, salad, haricots, apples, go look trough the window for what's coming, lock my bedroom door when my wife is out, do my laundry more often, stop steeling napkins from MacDonalds, buy my own toothpicks too, and stop cutting them in two to save money, buy my own toilet paper, take a shower more often, stop talking to strangers, try to avoid cops and jails, stop hanging with criminals, get to know some nice people for a change, that's what I was trying here, get some more education, get a new keyboard, a red one this time, go look at my trees, see if I can see the top, install my hamac, paint all my guitars, sell some of my pedals, get my bicycle fix, buy a canoe without forgetting the paddles, write a letter, don't matter to who, just write one, say in it all that is and is not, don't forget to stamp a stamp on it, and not in it, mailed it, no matter to who, as long that someone can read it, don't forget to write the return address, in case that no one wants to read it, then I can rewrite it if it comes back, get the rust out of my old truck, used it as a flower flat deck, plant more roses, red this time instead of pink, clean the backyard, hire kids to do it for me, yell at them when they touch what they should not, don't pay them with cash but with some music recordings and old DVDs that I just hate, crack some jokes with them too, buy more beer, it's good for the cervical balance and the triceps, drink more coca-cola too, for hangover, learn the new language of kids that are piss at all the rules of our society, get them to respect themselves, learn more from them, check my back, make love more often, try to give an orgasm to my wife more often too, that would help our relationship, tell her how much I love her, get some flowers from the neighbor's garden for her, don't tell her where they coming from, ask her if she thinks I'm crazy with all my audio junk, don't let her the time to answer that one, believe everything she said to me while the music is way crank up, get more subwoofers, it's good for the equilibrium, no more chips, ice cream and peanuts, get cashews instead, with swiss chocolate and strawberries, be important, get some respect, collect superheros cards, watch more Blu-rays about them, learn their history too, sell my old CRT set, put new knobs on my doors and also on my components, make it look good, buy a new cowboy hat, don't forget to get new boots at the same time, buy a horse too to go with the hat, learn how to ride the Waynes way, travel more, visit my friends, wherever they are, just call them first before I come, so they know, and they can go in vacation before I arrive, visit my buddies in jails across the country side, bring them flowers, and women too, with few cases of beer, they're the ones that truly love me for the right reasons, they don't tell me though, they're just too busy riding their horses, and say Hihhh-Hahhh, never knew what that meant, never crossed my mind either, they seem happy then, must be some kind of music they sang, never stay too long, it gets very nasty afterwards, better leave before it happens, or go to the liquor store again, they love tattoos, I wish I had a taste for cracker jacks, that's where they get their cards from, always intrigued me, but never get to like them, anyway, it's getting moon high now, better get the cat inside, lots of racoons at night, when it's dark, pitch black dark, then they come, one by one, till they all gang up, they love to fight, even if there is no one to fight them, they just start screaming, like pigs, and they don't quit, till it's dark again, I love my sound system... makes me forget about all that crap.
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
and the worlds longest run-on sentence was born....

LOTR, you may be overreacting. I have personal experience in this because I have a tendency to overreact. I've gone on tirades before with plans to just change everything, but in the end it remains much the same. Truth is, most people don't change. We just have to be a little careful when, where, and how we step. We have to curtail ourselves in a manor that suits those around us to function in any society.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Well I think you may be looking at this incorrectly. Onkyo did something completely out of the ordinary with the TX-SR805, and it's possible that they had kickback from other companies (I have theories about this). Any company out there could make a super low cost receiver that would perform phenominally and could literally put all other competitors out in the cold if they didn't follow suite. But truth be told, that's just not profitable. The TX-SR805 is a fluke, it's not likely we'll see a repeat of a receiver in that price class that can dish out with it did.

I mainly started this thread to inform any that where interested, that not much has changed since the TX-SR806, and we'll be stuck with a more comparitive model to the competition. Make no mistake, Onkyo's lines are still very competitive and good for the money given present competition. The only company I felt that fell short this year for their line up (not including Sony, NAD, and a few other brands that are considered higher end "brands") was Yamaha. Their lower line models are using integrated output devices and smaller power supplies to lessen cost. I do not approve of such cheapening.

Pioneer seems to gone in a very intelligent direction with their line, offering HDMI audio support at $200 for the VSX-519, which sports discrete output devices, which is very strange considering that until now they've been using ICs for the past decade in their lower models.
My personal opinion on the 805 situation is that it was a fluke and kind of a bad business move for Onkyo. By making the 805 such a bargain, Onkyo made it pretty hard to justify the price jumps for the 875 and 905 where I am sure the profit margin is higher. Don’t get me wrong, I think it was a great move on their part to get a lot of Onkyos into people’s hands, but if didn’t drop a lot of money to the bottom line then it’s a moot point.

Since they decided to screw the pooch with the 806, I was forced to jump up to the 876. Which I suspect was their intention…along with suckering less informed buyers whom had heard great things about the 805 and thought they were just getting an updated version.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
My personal opinion on the 805 situation is that it was a fluke and kind of a bad business move for Onkyo. By making the 805 such a bargain, Onkyo made it pretty hard to justify the price jumps for the 875 and 905 where I am sure the profit margin is higher. Don’t get me wrong, I think it was a great move on their part to get a lot of Onkyos into people’s hands, but if didn’t drop a lot of money to the bottom line then it’s a moot point.

Since they decided to screw the pooch with the 806, I was forced to jump up to the 876. Which I suspect was their intention…along with suckering less informed buyers whom had heard great things about the 805 and thought they were just getting an updated version.
Sounds about right too me.

LOTR.

Please use paragraphs and spacing. :) I'm beggin you.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
My personal opinion on the 805 situation is that it was a fluke and kind of a bad business move for Onkyo. By making the 805 such a bargain, Onkyo made it pretty hard to justify the price jumps for the 875 and 905 where I am sure the profit margin is higher. Don’t get me wrong, I think it was a great move on their part to get a lot of Onkyos into people’s hands, but if didn’t drop a lot of money to the bottom line then it’s a moot point.

Since they decided to screw the pooch with the 806, I was forced to jump up to the 876. Which I suspect was their intention…along with suckering less informed buyers whom had heard great things about the 805 and thought they were just getting an updated version.
I too agree in large part with that. For me though, it was a well calculated move,
a hot business strategy (805). Get the customers all excited for a while,
and eventually start to cool off (806 & 807). I'd say it has been working quite nicely,
I'm sure a lot of money exchanged hands.

LOTR.
Please use paragraphs and spacing. :) I'm beggin you.
lsiberian, it's a poem my dear friend. :)
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
Daaaammmnnn LOTR, that was an impressive post, I feel lucky if I can wake up, walk to the bathroom, yawn and scratch the sack all without tripping. ;)
Yes I'm teasing you, but in a good way.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
Jostenmeat, if using the 805 as a preamp, it shouldnt matter if set to 4ohm or 6 ohms, because you are bypassing the amp section altogether and the temp should remain the same.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
Peng, I'd love to try that, but even though the 805 has an impressive amp, I have found using outboard amps gives me slightly better clarity in my setup. Hence why I use outboard amps on all 3 of my HT systems.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Jostenmeat, if using the 805 as a preamp, it shouldnt matter if set to 4ohm or 6 ohms, because you are bypassing the amp section altogether and the temp should remain the same.
I do not know enough about receivers to say if it "should" or "shouldn't", but what I do know is that it "does". As Seth has already said, the rail voltage should drop considerably.

You still haven't answered my question: have you even tried once?

I did just realize something that the Crazy Canadian forgot to mention when giving out the 4-9 degree range. He obviously must mean in celsius. At the normal operating ranges of receivers (which is not cold by any means), the upper half of that range will most likely mean double digit farenheit. However, I am pretty certain that the temp difference is not just barely double digit F, but considerably more.

So, I ask you once again, will you try it? If you cannot be bothered, perhaps you would bother to ask me to try? I already have, but forgot the exact #s, it's been well over a year. If you cannot be bothered to do either, please do not spread unfounded information. Thank you.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I do not know enough about receivers to say if it "should" or "shouldn't", but what I do know is that it "does". As Seth has already said, the rail voltage should drop considerably.

You still haven't answered my question: have you even tried once?

I did just realize something that the CRAZY CANADIAN forgot to mention when giving out the 4-9 degree range. He obviously must mean in celsius. At the normal operating ranges of receivers (which is not cold by any means), the upper half of that range WILL MOST LIKELY mean double digit farenheit. However, I AM PRETTY CERTAIN that the temp difference is not just barely double digit F, but considerably more.

So, I ask you once again, will you try it? If you cannot be bothered, perhaps you would bother to ask me to try? I already have, but forgot the exact #s, it's been well over a year. If you cannot be bothered to do either, please do not spread unfounded information. Thank you.
Hey Josten, I ain't Crazy, maybe a bit upset sometimes (with good reason), but not crazy. :) Have some respect for the peaceful Canadians North of your border, as we do towards you.

And I ain't talking about heat anymore, only about cool stuff. :cool:

* Talking about "should" or "shouldn't", you are yourself using the same word that you seem to ban. ;)
And seriously, who really cares about Fahrenheit or Celsius degrees.
Remember "different parallels".

* Also, check your own words from your own post that I put in CAPITAL letters. :)

Regards & Peace,
Bob
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Hey Josten, I ain't Crazy, maybe a bit upset sometimes (with good reason), but not crazy. :)
I disagree!

Have some respect for the peaceful Canadians North of your border, as we do towards you.
Always!

* Talking about "should" or "shouldn't", you are yourself using the same word that you seem to ban. ;)
I never banned it. Jeez Louise. I said I didn't know if it should or shouldn't. To be even more clear, for your benefit, I didn't say that the rail voltage DOES drop. I did say that the temperature DOES drop by selecting 4 ohms.

And seriously, who really cares about Fahrenheit or Celsius degrees.
Remember "different parallels".
You brought up temperature issues. You brought up different parallels. If anyone cares, it's you.

* Also, check your own words from your own post that I put in CAPITAL letters. :)

Regards & Peace,
Bob

You've now made my chit list on two forums. I gave you a lot of benefit of doubt, lot of rope. After your first post here, I was already thinking, "Oh No!". I didn't say a peep to nobody, and I let everyone make their own opinion on you, without having me convince em one way or another.

... enjoy my first chiclet to you. That's right, as much as you've immensely bugged the complete living crap out of me at AVS, I never gave you a bad chiclet. I've tried to be nice. For about half a year now. Now go away.

Yes, you've been on ignore list at AVS since before I ever saw your name here. You are very close to making both lists. Very close.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Peng, I'd love to try that, but even though the 805 has an impressive amp, I have found using outboard amps gives me slightly better clarity in my setup. Hence why I use outboard amps on all 3 of my HT systems.
I understand you prefer using your outboard amp. I was talking about try doing it as an experiment. I also understand it is too much to ask because if I was asked I would be too lazy to swap the amp out just for an experiment and then swap it back in, all the hard work just to prove a point.

The fact is, at idling the 805 may consume 100 to 150W and probably most of that, say 80%, or 80 to 120W will end up in the form of heat that has to be dissipated. Roughly 10W will be the fixed transformer core loss (eddy current loss + hysteris loss), the remaining would be for other overheads that draws power, including the video section, indicating lights, remote receivers etc.

That is still relatively low when compared to the combined transformer copper loss of 10 to 20W (still minor) plus the loss of the amp section loss of as much as 200 to 400 watts (or more) if the amp is operating at near full load condition. On the practical side, for most 805 users the amp will likely be pumping out no more than a couple hundred watts of average power so the loss in the form of heat will in fact be roughly equal or slightly less than that during idling. Still, it would be wrong to assume the 805 will run just as hot when used as a prepro only, but it won't be much cooler either.
 
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