New Shanling A3000 integrated Amp...

[ski2xblack]

If amplifiers affected the soundstage in reality (apart from being allowed to clip), this would be evident in double-blind testing. However, no differences in soundstage between properly-functioning amplifiers have ever been shown to exist in proper level-matched double-blind tests. The only "tests" in which this phenomenon appears is in sighted tests with no attempts at matching levels. Most alleged sonic differences perceived between components with flat response/below-audibility levels of distortion and noise is caused by mismatched levels or a clipping amplifier, this has been repeatedly demonstrated to be the case.

Source, please. Where exactly has this been shown to exist?

My own anecdotal input is that my Decware's kick *** over any ss amp I've tried in my system (Yamaha, NADs old and new, Emotiva, Crown), without any other changes to source/room/speaker placement. Obviously not as loud as the ss amps, but ridiculously precise imaging and depth of field, fantastic realism that the ss amps can't touch. Musician friends and other visitors agree.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Source, please. Where exactly has this been shown to exist?

My own anecdotal input is that my Decware's kick *** over any ss amp I've tried in my system (Yamaha, NADs old and new, Emotiva, Crown), without any other changes to source/room/speaker placement. Obviously not as loud as the ss amps, but ridiculously precise imaging and depth of field, fantastic realism that the ss amps can't touch. Musician friends and other visitors agree.

Source?
What is your source besides being just anecdotal and imagined?
Why would an amp do all that to sound stage? It is the speakers that create the impression of this. And, their characteristics. Since a speaker's characteristics, power response in frequency bands, dispersion characteristics differ, so will your soundstage to some extent.
As to others agreeing, well, that too can be explained by group think, human psychology, imaginations.

As to DBT results, one should do some research on the matter, no?

 

[ski2xblack]

Source?
What is your source besides being just anecdotal and imagined?
Why would an amp do all that to sound stage? It is the speakers that create the impression of this. And, their characteristics. Since a speaker's characteristics, power response in frequency bands, dispersion characteristics differ, so will your soundstage to some extent.
As to others agreeing, well, that too can be explained by group think, human psychology, imaginations.

As to DBT results, one should do some research on the matter, no?[/QUOT

What a pedant you are. Blow me.

I'm not the one who claimed that studies have proven that differences don't exist, so the burden of proof is on you. If you insist on arguing, support your argument. All I stated was my own personal experience, explicitly anecdotal, and made no claims outside of that. Why are you slide-rule geeks so uptight about this anyway? I think you spend too much time listening to the gear, and completely miss the music.

 

[ski2xblack]

Source?
Why would an amp do all that to sound stage?

The amp doesn't create the soundstage at all, but some amps veil details more than others, thus producing differences in the soundstage. The key is getting the most transparent amp you can so as to let the details of the recording come through. Strangely enough, amps that are the most transparent to the ear often spec poorly compared to your typical mainstream solid state offering, which mask or smear the image to a larger degree.

 

[mtrycrafts]

"Blow me."

What a pedant you are. Blow me.

I'm not the one who claimed that studies have proven that differences don't exist, so the burden of proof is on you. If you insist on arguing, support your argument. All I stated was my own personal experience, explicitly anecdotal, and made no claims outside of that. Why are you slide-rule geeks so uptight about this anyway? I think you spend too much time listening to the gear, and completely miss the music.

WOW. You ran out of words from the dictionary???

You claimed perhaps that they do exist for which you have no evidence other than your anecdotes? I remember people making similar claims for 'Alien Abductions'
As to the studies for showing no differences, one only has to read the citations posted numerous times over the past 30 years. In your case, I will let you do the research, if you are interested.
As to who listens to the gear, just read your own posts, again.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The amp doesn't create the soundstage at all, but some amps veil details more than others, thus producing differences in the soundstage. The key is getting the most transparent amp you can so as to let the details of the recording come through. Strangely enough, amps that are the most transparent to the ear often spec poorly compared to your typical mainstream solid state offering, which mask or smear the image to a larger degree.

Oh, who is making the claims now???
Prove it!!! Demonstrate it!!! You cannot, period.

As to poor specs and transparency, that too is your imagination with no evidence. Impressive claims with nothing to support such urban legends and voodoo magic. LOL

 

[croseiv]

Wow. We haven't had one of these types of threads in a while..

 

[Lordoftherings]

Wow. We haven't had one of these types of threads in a while..

Do you have your own personal take on the subject at hand?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Wow. We haven't had one of these types of threads in a while..

You mean a resurrection after 2 years?

 

[mike c]

What a pedant you are. Blow me.

I'm not the one who claimed that studies have proven that differences don't exist, so the burden of proof is on you. If you insist on arguing, support your argument. All I stated was my own personal experience, explicitly anecdotal, and made no claims outside of that. Why are you slide-rule geeks so uptight about this anyway? I think you spend too much time listening to the gear, and completely miss the music.

'blow me' was unnecessary. in the future, please avoid using such language.

 

[Matt34]

Science, dbt research...... pure hogwash. Just ask these guys:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85692

 

[mike c]

Science, dbt research...... pure hogwash. Just ask these guys:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85692

LOL, i couldn't get past the 1st paragraph of the 1st post

 

[TLS Guy]

I'd be interested to know how this informs your experience of listening. Does it result in you trusting measuring equipment more than your ears/brain?

Absolutely, I trust measurements over subjective listening and any sane person should. If it does not measure well you are listening to aberration, period.

With amplifiers, measurements are everything, and an anecdotal listening test means absolutely nothing of consequence.

Loudspeakers are a slightly different matter. However if a speaker does not at least have a reasonably flat mid range response, and a respectable waterfall plot, I don't even want to bother auditioning it.

If you seriously believe that changing the power cord of an amp changes the sound in anyway, then I for one can give no credence to anything you have to say.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Absolutely, I trust measurements over subjective listening and any sane person should. If it does not measure well you are listening to aberration, period.

With amplifiers, measurements are everything, and an anecdotal listening test means absolutely nothing of consequence.

Loudspeakers are a slightly different matter. However if a speaker does not at least have a reasonably flat mid range response, and a respectable waterfall plot, I don't even want to bother auditioning it.

If you seriously believe that changing the power cord of an amp changes the sound in anyway, then I for one can give no credence to anything you have to say.

Hmmm... I agree for the most part, but not entirely. I guess I'm entitled to my own opinion too; plus the right to agree or disagree.

* YES, for measurements. That is also important in my book.

* And Amplifiers, also, YES, good measurements is a good indication.

* Also, YES for a good midrange response from loudspeakers.
And good waterfall plot is a great indicator too.

* Now, for the very last point, about power cords: I'd rather use a larger gauge power cord than some chintzy ones that came with most components.
But, I'm sure you are in the same boat as me on that one.
In particular, with some powerful power amplifiers. You've got to let the current flow at full regime.

So, overall, I'll say that I agree with you at about 99.99%.
That's a pretty good average, I'll say.

Regards,

Bob

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmm... I agree for the most part, but not entirely. I guess I'm entitled to my own opinion too; plus the right to agree or disagree.

* YES, for measurements. That is also important in my book.

* And Amplifiers, also, YES, good measurements is a good indication.

* Also, YES for a good midrange response from loudspeakers.
And good waterfall plot is a great indicator too.

* Now, for the very last point, about power cords: I'd rather use a larger gauge power cord than some chintzy ones that came with most components.
But, I'm sure you are in the same boat as me on that one.
In particular, with some powerful power amplifiers. You've got to let the current flow at full regime.

So, overall, I'll say that I agree with you at about 99.99%.
That's a pretty good average, I'll say.

Regards,

Bob

The power cord does not need to be bigger than the wire behind the wall!

 

[Lordoftherings]

The power cord does not need to be bigger than the wire behind the wall!

I agree with you at 100% this time.

* Did you check the wire behind your wall recently?

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with you at 100% this time.

* Did you check the wire behind your wall recently?

Yes!

There are three circuits for the power amp case, all switched to the respective amps by 24 volt relays. You can see the three relays and the 24 volt transformer to power the relay switches in this picture.

Here you can see the AC wiring, which is standard house wiring. You can also see the intake for the variable speed Fantec extractor fan. It is a very quiet fan, mounted a long way away from the intake.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I agree with you at 100% this time.

* Did you check the wire behind your wall recently?

Don't forget though that the ga matters for voltage drops and the wires in the walls are very long compared to the wire from a component. But then, easy to do an IR drop calc for a 4ft-6ft cord

 

[TLS Guy]

Don't forget though that the ga matters for voltage drops and the wires in the walls are very long compared to the wire from a component. But then, easy to do an IR drop calc for a 4ft-6ft cord

Since the wires in the walls are the longest they contribute far more to the resistance than the power cord, unless it is made from bell wire!

If the cord is not warm to the touch it is big enough gauge.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Science, dbt research...... pure hogwash. Just ask these guys:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85692

WOW. Another AA site