Crisis What Crisis

[griffinconst]

I know anyone can say anything on the radio but here's what I heard today.
The government keeps throwing around this number of 47 million uninsured. It breaks down as:
19,000,000-can afford it but choose not to buy it.
10,000,000-non citizens and illeagal aliens

That leaves 18,000,000 who can't get insured or can't afford it.
If the US has approx. 300,000,000 population, that makes the uninsured only about 6%. Considering that 5% unemployment is considered FULL employment, how is 6% uninsured a crisis?

I think a program to pick up the 6%'s health care makes more sense than ruining it for everyone else. Of coarse costs, waste, corruption, and lawsuits need to be brought inline as well.

 

[Davemcc]

Considering that 5% unemployment is considered FULL employment, how is 6% uninsured a crisis?

That's an interesting way to look at it. Even up to 6% can be considered full employment so by that same standard, you could consider that health care is fully supported already.

On the other hand, the 19M that don't want to pay will always want coverage for free if somebody else is getting it. Then double it for all the others that will want it for free, as well.

 

[CraigV]

18M is a LOT of people. Besides, the issue of costs have not been properly addressed.

 

[Nemo128]

I know anyone can say anything on the radio but here's what I heard today.

If a meaningful discussion is to be had here, can we know where this was heard and from what source that information was discovered?

Just this morning I heard on the radio that Michael Jackson is on a beach in Cuba drinking rum-filled coconuts with Fidel Castro and Tupac Shakur. Biggie Smalls plane from Cancun was delayed, but he'll be there in time for the party tonight...

 

[GO-NAD!]

I know I'm taking a chance by poking my nose in here. But, your health care system in the US really needs fixing - badly. Just look at how much it costs! You pay far more than than any other country in the world, yet average health outcomes are way down there in the OECD. One common refrain we hear is "Do you want some government bureacrat making decisions about your treatment?" Well, right now, you have some insurance company slimeball making those decisions.

My sister was at death's door a couple of years ago, with a strep infection in her bloodstream. A week in ICU in an induced coma. 3 or 4 weeks total, in the hospital. She wasn't responding to normal antibiotics, so the DOCTOR decided to break out some new drug that cost tens of thousands of dollars per dose to treat her. He didn't have to ask any government bureaucrat or an insurance company for permission. He just did it and it saved her life (I'm almost in tears as I type this). Do you know what her bill was when she was released from the hospital? Nothing, nada, zip. But guess what - our health care system costs about 70% of what the American system costs (it varies from year to year) We will be eternally grateful to that hospital staff and for our public health care system.

We don't get turned down for coverage because of "pre-existing conditions", there's no deductable, etc.

I won't claim that we have a perfect system. Far from it. Waiting lists for certain procedures are too long. We have a doctor shortage right now (they're retiring faster than they're being trained). There is some abuse, such as when some hypochondriacs visit their family doctor every other day.

But, I'll take our system over the American system any day. I'm not bragging about it, I just wish that enough of the American public could see past insurance company propaganda long enough to pressure your politicians to do something about it!

 

[lsiberian]

I know I'm taking a chance by poking my nose in here. But, your health care system in the US really needs fixing - badly. Just look at how much it costs! You pay far more than than any other country in the world, yet average health outcomes are way down there in the OECD. One common refrain we hear is "Do you want some government bureacrat making decisions about your treatment?" Well, right now, you have some insurance company slimeball making those decisions.

My sister was at death's door a couple of years ago, with a strep infection in her bloodstream. A week in ICU in an induced coma. 3 or 4 weeks total, in the hospital. She wasn't responding to normal antibiotics, so the DOCTOR decided to break out some new drug that cost tens of thousands of dollars per dose to treat her. He didn't have to ask any government bureaucrat or an insurance company for permission. He just did it and it saved her life (I'm almost in tears as I type this). Do you know what her bill was when she was released from the hospital? Nothing, nada, zip. But guess what - our health care system costs about 70% of what the American system costs (it varies from year to year) We will be eternally grateful to that hospital staff and for our public health care system.

We don't get turned down for coverage because of "pre-existing conditions", there's no deductable, etc.

I won't claim that we have a perfect system. Far from it. Waiting lists for certain procedures are too long. We have a doctor shortage right now (they're retiring faster than they're being trained). There is some abuse, such as when some hypochondriacs visit their family doctor every other day.

But, I'll take our system over the American system any day. I'm not bragging about it, I just wish that enough of the American public could see past insurance company propaganda long enough to pressure your politicians to do something about it!

You also have a lot lower population. With far fewer immigrants. Are healthcare system isn't perfect, but it's innovative. What we pay funds the research we have into advancing medicine. I personally think doctors deserve to be well paid.

 

[Rickster71]

If a meaningful discussion is to be had here, can we know where this was heard and from what source that information was discovered?

Just this morning I heard on the radio that Michael Jackson is on a beach in Cuba drinking rum-filled coconuts with Fidel Castro and Tupac Shakur...

I hope he's using sun screen...he's so fair skinned.

 

[GO-NAD!]

You also have a lot lower population. With far fewer immigrants. Are healthcare system isn't perfect, but it's innovative. What we pay funds the research we have into advancing medicine. I personally think doctors deserve to be well paid.

When I said that our system costs much less, I meant per capita. Population size has nothing to do with it. And, hate to break this to you, but we accept more immigrants than any other country in the world, on a per capita basis.

I agree that there is a lot of innovation in the US in advancing health care. The trouble is, you need very expensive insurance coverage to access it, or be Bill Gates...

 

[Nemo128]

Sad that a Canadian has a better grasp of the truth about our medical system than we do, and only because many Americans choose to willingly blind themselves to the truth.

Yeah, we have the most innovative, the most advanced, the most blah blah f*cking blah... Chris Rock said it best:

"I live in Alpine NJ. My neighbors are Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest men on the planet, Mary J Blige, one of the greatest singers ever, Jay Z, one of the greatest and most successful rappers of all time. And a dentist. He's not the world's greatest dentist. He's not in the dental hall of fame. He didn't invent teeth. He doesn't get plaques for removing plaque."

There is a strark contrast between true doctors, who got into the profession because they have a burning desire to help people and provide quality life care services, and the quacks, who got into the profession because they were told they could make $400k (conservatively) a year while treating people like material objects.

Say what you want about Michael Moore and his movie Sicko, fact is he did show a normal average doctor in the UK living quite the life, far better than me, and he didn't have to do it here in the US.

We are SUPPOSEDLY the greatest nation on Earth! Why are people so quick to equate what WE can do with what other countries have already done! We judge it to be done poorly, and we basically say "We can't do any better so we won't do any better." Um... HUH?!?! If we're so great, why can't we make a good system out of Canada's or France's or the UK's supposedly poor systems? Laughable really, pitifully laughable how dismissive yet critical some people can be.

 

[gene]

As it stands now, i pay around $12k/year to insure my family as I am a small business owner and don't have the benefit of employee insurance from a large corporation. For this amount of coin, we have no dental or optical insurance and we each have $500 deductibles on our health care + $500 deductibles on our prescription drugs! We did the research and this was actually the best plan we could find for the money as it provided even more coverage than HSA/MSA accounts.

Most of my wife's issues aren't even covered by her insurance b/c of pre-existing conditions she developed as a nurse when a 300lb patient fell on her. She didn't sue the hospital she worked for even though they dismissed her injury at the time b/c we are not lawsuit happy people. Now as a result, her insurance provided will NOT cover physical therapy, massage or chiropractic treatments despite she has 2 herniated discs.

In comparison, I was floored when I went to my wifes home country of Colombia last year and saw state of the art medical facilities and prescription drugs that would cost $500/bottle here for $6/bottle there. Lasik surgery was invented there and costs 1/4th the price it does here. Yet that is considered a 3rd world country. Surely we could do better here?!?

We truly need reform, especially for the middle class that pays their bills, earns income, and yet gets dictated by large insurance companies on what type of treatments our doctors are allowed to give us.

It seems to me that the sole purpose of health insurance companies in this country is to figure out ways to make you pay your premiums while giving you less and less coverage each year.

Normally I don't speak out publically on these issues but enoughs enough!

 

[Nemo128]

In comparison, I was floored when I went to my wifes home country of Colombia last year and saw state of the art medical facilities and prescription drugs that would cost $500/bottle here for $6/bottle there. Lasik surgery was invented there and costs 1/4th the price it does here. Yet that is considered a 3rd world country.

HOLY SHEEZ Gene! A close friend of mine sent his parents to Columbia on vacation to visit family, and his mother has really bad veins in her legs. Doctors here have charged their insurance an unholy amount for basically no remedy, yet she visits her sister-in-law's family there, has some procedure done on her legs with a DOPPLER RADAR (LOL!) and she felt great for months after she got here!

A far throw from the medicine man doing the river dance that people seem to think exists in other countries. Man, thanks for your post. Glad to see someone know firsthand that this truth we are shown isn't the truth at all.

 

[GO-NAD!]

$12,000 a year!!?? Sweet Jesus!! That'd pay for a verrrrry nice home theatre, wouldn't it! We pay higher taxes here, but that goes in part to pay for public health care. And I can assure you, I'm not paying anywhere close to that amount in extra taxes! I'm no USA basher, I promise. I've visited many US cities over the last 25 years or so and I can't say that I've ever regretted it. I've always found Americans to be friendly and courteous. But, there is a streak of paranoia about government involvement in anything, except the military of course.

I believe in free enterprise as much as the next guy, but the line should be drawn at treating a person's life as a commodity. I suspect that if you ask all the ardent defenders of the staus quo, their insurance coverage is probably second-to-none: like maybe senators and congressmen...?

 

[Davemcc]

I can assure you, I'm not paying anywhere close to that amount in extra taxes!

Oh, I think I am. I paid $30K off the top last year not including property tax, sales tax, gas tax, sin taxes or license and other fees. All told, I think Big Brother takes well over $40K. Yet I'm well over a year into a medical issue that I needed resolved last year with no resolution in sight. I pay for the "best health care in the world". Where the hell is it when I need it?

 

[Nemo128]

Oh, I think I am. I paid $30K off the top last year not including property tax, sales tax, gas tax, sin taxes or license and other fees. All told, I think Big Brother takes well over $40K. Yet I'm well over a year into a medical issue that I needed resolved last year with no resolution in sight. I pay for the "best health care in the world". Where the hell is it when I need it?

Dave, do you know of any comparable situations for an American that turned out better? Or do you feel your medical situation would have been better addressed in the US?

 

[Schupo]

The heath care system in the US is destroyed, and people don't want to admit that universal health care isn't socialism and would work in our country.

 

[Davemcc]

Dave, do you know of any comparable situations for an American that turned out better? Or do you feel your medical situation would have been better addressed in the US?

I don't know of any comparable situations. I suspect that had I walked into an American hospital, the first eight months of tests would have been completed in one day. The wait times to see a specialist here are about three to six months and any scheduled tests are booked from two to six weeks in advance with another month or more to get back into the specialist to find out the results. My family doctor tried to book me into a specialist last October or November...first available appointment...April.

My understanding of American hospitals from my American friends and family is that when you visit the ER, you are seen by a specialist who runs all applicable tests on the spot with immediate results. When you visit the ER here, you are seen by a GP who either chooses to admit you or sends you home with his best guess of your condition based on the limited array of tests available to him at the time. My impression of Canadian ER's is that if you are not bleeding or unconscious, they don't know what to do with you. Visiting the ER is practically the only way to see a specialist in a reasonable time frame. I went to the ER and the ER booked a specialist appointment for me with only a three week wait and received the results of his tests by the end of February or beginning of March. I've been at this since May 08.

Cliff's notes: US=one day. Canada=8 months (better hope you're not dying).

 

[Nemo128]

Thanks.

I've experienced both here. However, I will tell you this. I've only experienced good, quality, quick care when I got insurance through my employer. Paying myself or applying for charity care, I was pretty much ignored and treated like trash. At the end of all those visits, I was slapped with bills so high I had to take semesters off from college just to pay part of them.

Most recently, I had a procedure for a cancer screening due to some internal issues becoming external. Long story short, it was a recurring problem years ago, when I had no insurance. I was referred to a gastro and turned away by most of them because I lacked any insurance. The few that would perform the service wanted upfront $2500+ to perform a 10 min procedure.

I had it done through my insurance last month within a week of getting a consult. Procedure, 10 mins + 50 mins bed time for recovery. Total damage $3200. Insurance only paid ~$800 total as a PPO. I paid $50 for my copay.

I was called a day later and asked how I was doing. I was called a week later with results.

I was treated without even the slightest dignity or concern when I had any medical issue occur without insurance.

 

[griffinconst]

In my original post I said we needed reform to address the waste, corruption etc. involved in health care and insurance. As long as private companies run these things, we have a chance to do something about them.

I actually want to fix things but I can't help but be suspect of the direction we are heading. Government programs generally waste much and cost even more. Also, the group that is in power now seems to think the government needs to control everything. That is not what the US is about. This country was created as the antithesis of that.

 

[Nemo128]

As long as private companies run these things, we have a chance to do something about them.

I agree with your whole post, cept that. I do not one bit at all trust private companies who hold the amount of our GDP that some of these insurance, pharmaceutical, and medical equipment companies hold. And we cannot do anything about them. Period. That's like saying we can do something about Exxon and Citgo and Aramco charging the barrel prices they do. We obviously have not and cannot.

 

[Davemcc]

The biggest issue with Canada's system is that private health care is illegal. The public system is the only system allowed by law. In that regard, we are in the company of such health care giants as China, Cuba and North Korea. I'm not opposed to public health care in general but Canada is not a system that should be modelled by any first world nation.

The public system should supplement the private system, the way it does in the US currently. Expanded eligibility for Medicare/Medicaid could encompass a great many of the currently uninsured. There does need to be some eligibility restrictions to prevent the professional moochers that otherwise could afford fine health care on their own. I'd also suggest a time limit to allow competent people to find or create their own means of getting into a private plan and off the gov't teat either through a workplace plan or private insurance.

I would think that the number of uninsured are people that flow in and out of the system, like Nemo described. At some point, they had insurance and lost it with the loss of a job, etc. At some point, it is highly likely that they will be insured again. I am just guessing that the actual number of those uninsured for their entire lives is actually very low and that those who remain uninsured are low achievers in life in the first place.