Home theater without surround?!

[tentaguasu]

I'm on a tight budget and looking for ways to keep down costs. I'm following the hobbiest philosophy that this will be an ongoing project. I don't want to start with something I'll be unhappy with. I want to be excited. But I'm willing to cut some corners to have something fun to start with, rather than saving 10 years for the perfect system.

That said - is it ridiculous (or even cost effective) to consider a home theater without surround sound?

I figured it might be cheaper to find good quality used speakers and a receiver that were not intended for home theater. Say, something 10, 15, even 20 years old that pumps out good power and bass.

So specifically:

1. Is stereo without surround like 720p instead of 1080p? That is, not as good as you might want, but pretty good anyway and well worth the effort for a first home theater? Or would it really defeat the whole purpose?

2. Would I save any money doing it anyway?

Thanks!

 

[no. 5]

The only thing multichannel has over stereo is improvement of spacial aspects; such as a superior sense of envelopment, space, and of coarse, the addition of effects like fly overs, ambient noises and the like. Having this one aspect reduced by going with stereo isn't all that bad (it's cheaper than multichannel, and there is no other loss to overall sound quality), and is an acceptable way to start a home theater.

 

[WmAx]

The only thing multichannel has over stereo is improvement of spacial aspects; such as a superior sense of envelopment, space, and of coarse, the addition of effects like fly overs, ambient noises and the like. Having this one aspect reduced by going with stereo isn't all that bad (it's cheaper than multichannel, and there is no other loss to overall sound quality), and is an acceptable way to start a home theater.

To add to the above... with certain stereo set ups, even the difference in sense of space is barely different, and in fact, superior in some ways for stereo, when comparing to normal surround to the best omnipolar stereo in the best acoustic spaces(which of course, this is very rare set up to encounter)... but of course this is an odd comparison to make.... and for movies I do find surround superior overall, so long as the speakers are of sufficient quality. A pair of superb stereo speakers are going to provide a lot more enjoyment than a set of mediocre surround speakers. It's wisest to invest most heavily in the two main front channels. Later on, if possible, get a matching center. The surround speakers can be much lower price/quality - as primarily they only deal with sound effects and spatial cues.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

I'm on a tight budget and looking for ways to keep down costs. I'm following the hobbiest philosophy that this will be an ongoing project. I don't want to start with something I'll be unhappy with. I want to be excited. But I'm willing to cut some corners to have something fun to start with, rather than saving 10 years for the perfect system.

That said - is it ridiculous (or even cost effective) to consider a home theater without surround sound?

I figured it might be cheaper to find good quality used speakers and a receiver that were not intended for home theater. Say, something 10, 15, even 20 years old that pumps out good power and bass.

So specifically:

1. Is stereo without surround like 720p instead of 1080p? That is, not as good as you might want, but pretty good anyway and well worth the effort for a first home theater? Or would it really defeat the whole purpose?

2. Would I save any money doing it anyway?

Thanks!

I see no reason to limit yourself from surround sound. The cost of speakers capable of this is often very low. My surrounds cost 40 bucks each used.

I built my front speakers from the recession buster kit and bought a dayton 10" to hold me over until my diy sub is done. If you have the tools and access to wood I think it's a great start for a system. See madisound.com for details on that.

You could also build the beta set. Which with a few mods could be made less resonant.

Even without mods it makes a nice set. For less than 150 you could have a front set. For a receiver check out ebay. Their are great deals to be had for tight budgets there.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm on a tight budget and looking for ways to keep down costs. I'm following the hobbiest philosophy that this will be an ongoing project. I don't want to start with something I'll be unhappy with. I want to be excited. But I'm willing to cut some corners to have something fun to start with, rather than saving 10 years for the perfect system.

That said - is it ridiculous (or even cost effective) to consider a home theater without surround sound?

I figured it might be cheaper to find good quality used speakers and a receiver that were not intended for home theater. Say, something 10, 15, even 20 years old that pumps out good power and bass.

So specifically:

1. Is stereo without surround like 720p instead of 1080p? That is, not as good as you might want, but pretty good anyway and well worth the effort for a first home theater? Or would it really defeat the whole purpose?

2. Would I save any money doing it anyway?

Thanks!

Actually, I think that is a good way to start, especially if this will be mainly a music system. Two good channels will beat 7 mediocre ones any day. Also if you have legacy equipment there is no compelling reason to have an AVR.

If your interest is music, get the best speakers you can afford. Get a decent used amp and preamp. With an HDMI switcher you can switch video. You will have to switch the audio separately, which is not a big deal.

That way you can add speakers, and you will have a decent amp to power your mains from receiver pre outs as you expand your system.

This system, I put together so I could enjoy music at the fireside in the winter, and also watch TV and movies in that space if I wanted.

The system was put together largely from items I already had lying around. The Quad FM 3 tuner and Quad 33 preamp go back to the early 70s.

Speaker position is not optimal, but this is an architecturally sensitive space.

The system ended up being successful and fills this large space well. Originally I powered it with a legacy Quad 405 2, but added more power with a Quad 909 and added a couple of subs I built back in the 80s powered by the 405 2

It turns out that the center image is in fact very stable and dialog is easily heard. So yes, you can start with a two channel system. In any event this space would not be suitable for multichannel audio anyway.

Admittedly this is secondary to the system in my signature, but this little system is very pleasant, and I'm glad I put it together.

 

[lsiberian]

Actually, I think that is a good way to start, especially if this will be mainly a music system. Two good channels will beat 7 mediocre ones any day. Also if you have legacy equipment there is no compelling reason to have an AVR.

If your interest is music, get the best speakers you can afford. Get a decent used amp and preamp. With an HDMI switcher you can switch video. You will have to switch the audio separately, which is not a big deal.

That way you can add speakers, and you will have a decent amp to power your mains from receiver pre outs as you expand your system.

This system, I put together so I could enjoy music at the fireside in the winter, and also watch TV and movies in that space if I wanted.

The system was put together largely from items I already had lying around. The Quad FM 3 tuner and Quad 33 preamp go back to the early 70s.

Speaker position is not optimal, but this is an architecturally sensitive space.

The system ended up being successful and fills this large space well. Originally I powered it with a legacy Quad 405 2, but added more power with a Quad 909 and added a couple of subs I built back in the 80s powered by the 405 2

It turns out that the center image is in fact very stable and dialog is easily heard. So yes, you can start with a two channel system. In any event this space would not be suitable for multichannel audio anyway.

Admittedly this is secondary to the system in my signature, but this little system is very pleasant, and I'm glad I put it together.

I like the setup. Nice low profile. How's the resonance with the cabnets though?

 

[TLS Guy]

I like the setup. Nice low profile. How's the resonance with the cabnets though?

I braced the hell out of the speaker enclosures. The upper and lower cabinet halves are separate and isolated to some degree. I guess the acid test is that I have never had the turntable feedback, even at high volume. The subs are isobarik second order coupled cavity, with two twelve inch drivers in each cabinet, and a Q of 0.5. F3 is 27 Hz with second order roll off, on the subs.

Voices are natural without chestiness, and despite the speaker location there is depth to the image. This was a pleasant surprise, as I got more than I was expecting out of the rig, and so I added to the system. The main speakers took me a long time to get right and properly voiced to location and the space though. That space is quite resonant with an actual echo, because of size and a lot of glass on the wall opposite the speakers. Probably the echo contributes to the system having a large sense of space.

 

[lsiberian]

I braced the hell out of the speaker enclosures. The upper and lower cabinet halves are separate and isolated to some degree. I guess the acid test is that I have never had the turntable feedback, even at high volume. The subs are isobarik second order coupled cavity, with two twelve inch drivers in each cabinet, and a Q of 0.5. F3 is 27 Hz with second order roll off, on the subs.

Voices are natural without chestiness, and despite the speaker location there is depth to the image. This was a pleasant surprise, as I got more than I was expecting out of the rig, and so I added to the system. The main speakers took me a long time to get right and properly voiced to location and the space though. That space is quite resonant with an actual echo, because of size and a lot of glass on the wall opposite the speakers. Probably the echo contributes to the system having a large sense of space.

Sounds good.

I've heard some bad cabinet built in speakers before.I cringe at the sound of one couple's speakers. They have polks mounted horizontally and built right into a tv cabinet in the corner of the room. The TV is awesome, but the sound makes me sick. I always wondered the proper way to avoid the ugly resonances that can present themselves.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sounds good.

I've heard some bad cabinet built in speakers before.I cringe at the sound of one couple's speakers. They have polks mounted horizontally and built right into a tv cabinet in the corner of the room. The TV is awesome, but the sound makes me sick. I always wondered the proper way to avoid the ugly resonances that can present themselves.

I don't want to give anybody the impression, that putting speakers in a cabinet is optimal. It isn't.

However with this, I can't take over two spaces in the house, even with a long suffering wife like mine! However she says one of her greatest pleasures is sitting down in this studio.

So for the system in the lower level space, I had to fit in with the use of the room, its function and architecture. It is a very nice space, and has intensive use by the grandchildren.

One of the nice things about DIY speaker building, is that you can build and voice to the space. Hopefully those speakers are not going anywhere for a while, and they have to shine in that situation, not anywhere else.

 

[Phil Taylor]

Any home theater is better than no home theater.

For bargains on equipment as noted above you can peruse fleabay and craigslist also can be a source of budget prices for gently used equipment.

 

[bigdady1955]

I started the exact way you are talking about.. Two speakers and a HiFi VCR. To my friends and me, this sounded great as I'm sure yours will too when you decide to make the plunge. The most satisfying part of doing it this way will be the incremental improvement you will hear through each step of the way(left and right fronts, later a center, then surrounds and finally a subwoofer.) The final result will be something you'll be proud of and will appreciate as it took time and hard work to get there.

Best of Luck
Bigdady