Clipping ?

[tcuda499]

Hey,
I here newer recievers are protected against this distortion know as "clipping" at higher volumes......I'm still very new at this and I'm wondering if I have to worry about this with my Denon 987? Is this one of the ones that is protected?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hey,
I here newer recievers are protected against this distortion know as "clipping" at higher volumes......I'm still very new at this and I'm wondering if I have to worry about this with my Denon 987? Is this one of the ones that is protected?

Nope, they are protected against protecting their circuits, but not against distortion. If you turn the volume higher than it should on your Denon AVR-987, you'll take chances to blow the tweeters of your speakers and your Denon would probably shot himself OFF. So, the distortion will affect your speakers, and if your Denon receiver shot himself OFF too often, you'll damage some internal components as well and it could result with a non-operative Denon receiver.

Just be nice with the Volume level, set yourself a limit and don't go over it.

 

[tcuda499]

Thank you Lord. If my speakers an handle 200 watts and my reciever is 110, how do I know what a safe level is? Will I hear this clipping/distortion type noise or will it sound like it cuts out?

 

[diegs]

In general do not turn the receiver volume past half way, 0 on the Denon and you should fine. This is a rule of thumb. For my denon 2808, 110 watts, I rarely go past -10 and I consider -12 to -16 reference level for most listening, which is loud. Different sources will be louder or softer than others. Plus your speaker's efficiency rating will dictate the maximum safe volume level. If you hear any amount distortion turn it down immediately.

 

[Lordoftherings]

On my Denon receiver, I never go pass -10db (so I still have room up to +18db). And I usually listen with the volume level at about -25db up to -20db (that's minus 25 to minus 20db). And it is plenty loud for me. Going to 0db is just WAYYY TOOO LOUUUD. My ears cannot take that for more than a couple minutes.
So, if you can select in your receiver a limit (maximum volume level) of let's say -10db (minus 10db), that would be plenty loud, trust me.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Denon would probably shot himself OFF. ...

How did you find its sex to be male?
Could it be female?

 

[Lordoftherings]

How did you find its sex to be male?
Could it be female?

Well, it's a receiver isn't it?

 

[highfigh]

Thank you Lord. If my speakers an handle 200 watts and my reciever is 110, how do I know what a safe level is? Will I hear this clipping/distortion type noise or will it sound like it cuts out?

How loud do want it to be? Without knowing how sensitive the speakers are, how loud you want it, how far from the speakers you are and how the room is treated, it's hard to tell if it's enough power. If you regularly run it at rated power, it's not enough, by any means. The dynamic peaks will often approach 30dB and that equates to 1000 times the power output from the reference level. This will definitely clip at these levels, but you'd have to know what to listen for because it's not going to sound like a distorted guitar- it'll be much more subtle, even though it will eventually puke your speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Well, it's a receiver isn't it?

No, then it has to be a female

 

[tcuda499]

Thanks my peeps! 0 db's is definetly loud enough. I really see no reason to go further than that. And now I know somewhat what to listen for and a safe db level is under 0 db.

 

[Seth=L]

It's very easy to hear the onset of clipping problems. Clipping is almost always present, but below audible levels. Clipping from an electrical standpoint is when the amplifier is distorting at electrically. Ever looked at THD factors, that's distortion. Just because humans can't hear it doesn't mean it's not present, but it's also not a huge deal until it's audible. When the distortion reaches audible levels then you have need to be concerned about possible damage to high frequency drivers and the amplifier/receiver. Since distortion is unpleasant for most people you'll most likely not have major problems with distortion affecting your equipment.

Some people have no concept of sound and that's why you will have people telling you that it's worse to underpower your speakers rather than overpower them. I disagree with that philosophy because I have ears and I don't enjoy listening to music where all the high frequencies are garbed together into a crap noise that makes me want to beat my head against the nearest wall. Overpowering can get guys like me into trouble, and has done so in the past. I just get a little gung ho and the speaker makes a loud popping sound and it's all over for my poor speakers.

 

[Lordoftherings]

No, then it has to be a female

That's from your receiver end.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Thanks my peeps! 0 db's is definetly loud enough. I really see no reason to go further than that. And now I know somewhat what to listen for and a safe db level is under 0 db.

Yep, 0 db is the very max you should go for, it's a very safe bet.
Not too many people go beyond that point, unless they're Audioholics.

* By the way, what's that mean "... a safe db level is under 0 db. "?
>> With the emphasis on:

The way I see it, is because you finally get the picture, am I right?

Cheers,

Bob

 

[3db]

Clipping only occurs when you try and draw more power from teh amplifer than the power supply can support. What that does in effect ( from a picture point of view) is to square off the tops and bottoms of a sine wave. This squaring of the signal produces an infinte number of very high frequency components which in effect is almost DC as far as the tweeter is concerned. This DC causes the voice coils of the tweeters to overheat and burn out. For more info..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

 

[tcuda499]

Yes,yes,yes....I wont go past odb's I do understand but I am known to be "never satisfied". I dont want to pop a speaker or amp B/C I cant replace either of them right now..... 11 month old baby and #2 is on the way for Feb '10. Another newbie question, my reciever starts at -80(cant bearly hear anything)at-70 (very low volumn)at-60(quiet but you can hear)at-50( good volumn,not to loud but not enough for movies)Does this sound right?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Yes,yes,yes....I wont go past odb's I do understand but I am known to be "never satisfied". I dont want to pop a speaker or amp B/C I cant replace either of them right now..... 11 month old baby and #2 is on the way for Feb '10. Another newbie question, my reciever starts at -80(cant bearly hear anything)at-70 (very low volumn)at-60(quiet but you can hear)at-50( good volumn,not to loud but not enough for movies)Does this sound right?

Absolutely, yes.

 

[tcuda499]

thank you Lord and fellow audioholics.!

 

[Lordoftherings]

No sweat, you've been an excellent trooper.

 

[WmAx]

OP: Amps are so cheap these days, that you can easily buy an amp stack that has all the power you will ever need, and in the future only buy receivers with pre-amp outs and use the receivers are pre-amps and video switching units. This method is gaining popularity today. If this is the route you want to go, I recommend getting amplifiers with a minimum 250-300 watts per channel into 8 Ohms, and be sure they are also 4 Ohm capable. Note: you will need a dedicated 20 amp circuit to feed your A/V system if you have this much amplifier capability.

On my stereo systems (I have two), I use high power component amplifiers now. On my main system, I use a high quality receiver as a pre-amp and source selector. My 2nd system is for the computer, so I don' t have a receiver as a pre-amp on that; the computer is the main source and I have an audio mixing board I use for source selection.

-Chris

 

[Lordoftherings]

Chris, excellent point, but I highly doubt that our OP is into that alternate route.