Denon AVP-A1HDCI / POA-A1HDCI Review Support Thread

[gene]

I purchased an AVP-A1HDCI over the weekend and so far I love it! Right now I'm looking into replacing my B&K amp with the POA. I've been looking for technical details on the POA topology, but have some open questions...

1. I know that the POA isn't really a monoblock design (although it advertises as such), but I'd like more information on the power section. Denon's description is extremely confusing. From looking at the diagrams it looks like there are four toroidal transformers, 2 powering each of the 5 left/right channels. Is that correct? I have to say, from the pictures, the transformers look like they are EI. That isn't the case... is it?

2. Is each single channel fully balanced (amplified +/- signals), or is bridging required to get a fully balanced signal?

3. Is the POA Class-A/B from top to bottom? Some amps, such as the B&K amps, advertise Class-A "pre-driver circuitry" with a Class-A/B output section.

4. I see there are fans on the bottom side of the unit. Do these fans stay off until you drive the unit hard and the temp goes up?

P.S. - Gene, love your review and the fantastic information I've found in this thread from you and your contact with Denon!

congrats on your purchase. If you check out my POA review, I discuss the amp topology in great detail. Its sorta a mono block in that it has separate power caps and rectification for each channel but not an individual power supply per channel. It actually has 4 E-core Xformers and is fully differential from input to output.

True monoblock designs in a single chassis are a waste IMO. They don't really offer any better channel to channel isolation than what Denon did but do give you smaller power supplies to power each channel rather than each channel being able to tap into a BIGGER supply when it demands more power. I prefer amps with a single LARGE power supply for that very reason assuming it is designed correctly of course.

Many people don't realize this but the amp section in their own AVR-5805 receiver is actually more powerful than an unbridged POA amp for that very reason when one channel is driven!

The only time I heard the fans come on was during my continuous power testing. Never in real usage and I crank the snot out of them in a 6,000 ft^3 room!

The POA amp is a silky smooth sounding amplifier. In fact, I am doing extensive listening tests of it right now against the new Axiom A1400-8 Class D amp. They are two different animals and I love them both though they have their associated strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in my A1400 review coming next month.

The only downside of the POA is the size/weight which helped trigger all 5 buldging discs in my back the day after I moved it into my rack

 

[jason_f]

Thanks Gene, more great info as usual

Really... the most concerning thing to me is the e-core transformers when toroidal is the de-facto standard and expected in the higher end audio space. I knew there was a reason Denon doesn't mention them, and this is why.

Is there a difference between "E" and "E-I" transformers? Both are laminated sheets of steel stacked in a similar pattern? I've been reading up on what the actual result of this is - and it seems that the major things are lower effeciency, more mechanical hum, and larger magnetic field versus toroidal.

Why would Denon go this route? Are their E core transformers superior to the cheap E-I transformers that you see in all low end audio gear?

 

[gene]

Really... the most concerning thing to me is the e-core transformers when toroidal is the de-facto standard and expected in the higher end audio space. I knew there was a reason Denon doesn't mention them, and this is why.

both E-core and torroid can be designed well or crappy. Just b/c one amp uses Ecore and another uses torroid doesnt make the latter better. The advantage of torroids can be reduced size and reduced E/M field radiation until it reaches its saturation point. Than it is just as bad as a saturated E-core.

Don't get hung up over this. the POA amp is huge and they must have figured they could do the design better with 4 Ecores as opposed to 4 torroids since they had the chassis space available.

 

[jason_f]

I guess I'll find out on Tuesday if there is a difference, being that I'm coming from toroid amps.

 

[jason_f]

One more thing... do we have any idea what the current bias on the Denon amp is? I.E. - at what wattage does it leave Class A and go into A/B?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Ha, actually I posted here because nobody on AVS knew the answer to my questions

I did place my order today though - it should be here by Tuesday!

Congratulations!, Jason, smart move. Today is the Big day, Tuesday.
Let us know, after all installation is done, your impressions.

As for your above question, I don't have a clue.

_____ Bob

P.S. Sorry Jason, I didn't realise that Gene did actually reviewed the POA-A1.
My fault, because I will have directed you to his review. Gene is the Denon and
Yamaha products expert, for sure. When I want to find out about those two brands, I always go with Gene's reviews first (Clint also). I highly trust these two guys.

 

[Franin]

Hi Gene,
Hi have recently added a DVDO Edge to my setup(going anamorphic soon) I have my Players all hooked up to the DVDO Edge and the video out go to the projector and the audio out goes to the AVP. The AVP is connected to an online UPS (Denon tech told me the best way to hook up the AVP as its a complex system)

I have a Samsung 1080p also hooked to the AVP monitor to access the menu through the AVP. What I want to know is why tonight I went to go and check my AVP menu to do a speaker check and it did not show up on the monitor? I even went to the Net radio the screen just went blank? I then turned the projector on and the DVDO did not respond either(remembering that the HDMI audio out is plugged into the AVP)?

Would this be a HDMI communication issue between the two?

 

[Lordoftherings]

OK People, time to wake up...

For a sticky thread, it is mostly dead!

I feel sorry for you Frank that nobody couldn't help you with your situation about the HDMI possible incompatibility. I wish you well.
And if you did found the solution, perhaps at another forum, please let us know, so we can learn from you.

Now, one thing that I would love to know here is, how many Audioholics members do own the Denon AVP-A1HDCI & POA-A1HDCI combo?
I know that it is a quite expensive combo, but it is also an excellent one.

Or just how many people own the AVP-A1HDCI by itself (without the POA-A1HDCI)?

Then, I will start a list of the owners. But only if there is at least 5 or more owners.
I do realise that Audioholics is maybe not as big as other audio forums, but it is one of the very best. And for that, it should attract more people and with taste for the AVP-A1HDCI.
At one point I was very close to acquire one, but the deal did not come through. Long story...

But heck, it is a State-of-the-Art surround processor with one if not the best video processor on the market (HQV Realta). And also the Gennum video processor from the Anthem Statement D2 A/V Surround processor with ARC1.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[Franin]

For a sticky thread, it is mostly dead!

I feel sorry for you Frank that nobody couldn't help you with your situation about the HDMI possible incompatibility. I wish you well.
And if you did found the solution, perhaps at another forum, please let us know, so we can learn from you.

Now, one thing that I would love to know here is, how many Audioholics members do own the Denon AVP-A1HDCI & POA-A1HDCI combo?
I know that it is a quite expensive combo, but it is also an excellent one.

Or just how many people own the AVP-A1HDCI by itself (without the POA-A1HDCI)?

Then, I will start a list of the owners. But only if there is at least 5 or more owners.
I do realise that Audioholics is maybe not as big as other audio forums, but it is one of the very best. And for that, it should attract more people and with taste for the AVP-A1HDCI.
At one point I was very close to acquire one, but the deal did not come through. Long story...

But heck, it is a State-of-the-Art surround processor with one if not the best video processor on the market (HQV Realta). And also the Gennum video processor from the Anthem Statement D2 A/V Surround processor with ARC1.

Best regards,

Bob

No problems Bob I sorted it out anyway.

 

[Lordoftherings]

No problems Bob I sorted it out anyway.

Well Frank, that's the best news so far we heard here in the last couple months!

OK, you are #1 owner that I know of at Audioholics.

1. Franin

Now, guys I need more owners of the AVP-A1, anyone else?
And don't forget, we will have a draw each time we hit ten owners, and so forth, till we run out of prices.

But so far we have tons of fantastic prices, I cannot tell you because it's a surprise, and if I tell you, well, then it would not be a surprise anymore, wouldn't?

LOTR

P.S. Oh, and by the way, when the first ten people will be in, there will be a double surprise, so you got 20% chance of winning.

 

[Seth V]

Well Frank, that's the best news so far we heard here in the last couple months!

OK, you are #1 owner that I know of at Audioholics.

1. Franin

Now, guys I need more owners of the AVP-A1, anyone else?
And don't forget, we will have a draw each time we hit ten owners, and so forth, till we run out of prices.

But so far we have tons of fantastic prices, I cannot tell you because it's a surprise, and if I tell you, well, then it would not be a surprise anymore, wouldn't?

LOTR

P.S. Oh, and by the way, when the first ten people will be in, there will be a double surprise, so you got 20% chance of winning.

Yeah you're right about the lack of traffic on this thread. It was going full guns for a while then just tapered off and finally came to a stand still. We really need to get this thread going again. The AVP and POA are some excellent products that people on this website (members and visitors) need to have some new user info on.

Besides Franin (aka Frank) I'm also an AVP owner (no POA for me though).

Just so anyone reading this knows, I've been using my AVP for over a year now. It has performed flawlessly, and it brings a smile to my face every time I use it. I am eagerly looking to update my AVP with Denon Link 4, and as soon as the update is available here in the US I'm getting it. Looking forward to using it with my soon to be Denon DVD-A1UDCI Universal Blu-ray player.


Seth

 

[Franin]

Yeah you're right about the lack of traffic on this thread. It was going full guns for a while then just tapered off and finally came to a stand still. We really need to get this thread going again. The AVP and POA are some excellent products that people on this website (members and visitors) need to have some new user info on.

Besides Franin (aka Frank) I'm also an AVP owner (no POA for me though).

Just so anyone reading this knows, I've been using my AVP for over a year now. It has performed flawlessly, and it brings a smile to my face every time I use it. I am eagerly looking to update my AVP with Denon Link 4, and as soon as the update is available here in the US I'm getting it. Looking forward to using it with my soon to be Denon DVD-A1UDCI Universal Blu-ray player.


Seth

Hey Seth, looking forward in reading your reviews.

 

[Seth V]

Hey Seth, looking forward in reading your reviews.

Hi Frank,

Hopefully within a month I will be able to share my impressions of that beauty.


Seth

 

[Lordoftherings]

Yeah you're right about the lack of traffic on this thread. It was going full guns for a while then just tapered off and finally came to a stand still. We really need to get this thread going again. The AVP and POA are some excellent products that people on this website (members and visitors) need to have some new user info on.

Besides Franin (aka Frank) I'm also an AVP owner (no POA for me though).

Just so anyone reading this knows, I've been using my AVP for over a year now. It has performed flawlessly, and it brings a smile to my face every time I use it. I am eagerly looking to update my AVP with Denon Link 4, and as soon as the update is available here in the US I'm getting it. Looking forward to using it with my soon to be Denon DVD-A1UDCI Universal Blu-ray player.


Seth

Hi Seth,

Yes, this thread is at a stand still, and it amazes me that for a sticky thread, there is no more traffic than this.
I agree with you about the remarkable AVP-A1 & POA-A1.
I will love to learn more here at Audioholics from the owners.

Owners of AVP-A1HDCI:

1. Franin (also owns the POA-A1HDCI)
2. Seth V

Thanks Seth for coming in,

Bob

 

[Seth V]

Hi Seth,

Yes, this thread is at a stand still, and it amazes me that for a sticky thread, there is no more traffic than this.
I agree with you about the remarkable AVP-A1 & POA-A1.
I will love to learn more here at Audioholics from the owners.

Owners of AVP-A1HDCI:

1. Franin (also owns the POA-A1HDCI)
2. Seth V

Thanks Seth for coming in,

Bob

Let's see about getting this thread started up again.

I'll chime in with a tidbit. As of 5/13 2009 a firmware update for Denon Link 4 has been available. Right now it's available in Europe, and will soon be available here in the US (checked this morning and still nothing).

For info on what Denon Link 4th is all about check out this page.


Seth

 

[Franin]

Let's see about getting this thread started up again.

I'll chime in with a tidbit. As of 5/13 2009 a firmware update for Denon Link 4 has been available. Right now it's available in Europe, and will soon be available here in the US (checked this morning and still nothing).

For info on what Denon Link 4th is all about check out this page.


Seth

Still nothing, Seth?

I also like to say that this thread has Gene who from understanding is a good friend of Jeff Talmadge. This thread really should be buzzing if anything and any queries we should run pass Gene in turn which he would pass over to Jeff.

 

[Seth V]

Still nothing, Seth?

I also like to say that this thread has Gene who from understanding is a good friend of Jeff Talmadge. This thread really should be buzzing if anything and any queries we should run pass Gene in turn which he would pass over to Jeff.

Yeah still nothing, but I keep on checking every other day. With the A1UDCI just around the corner, I can only guess that the update has to be available very soon for us here in the US.

I agree, with Gene knowing Jeff very well, and having him as a contact for info, we need to get this thread back on track. Also Gene himself has both the Denon AVP and POA.


Seth

 

[Lordoftherings]

List of AVP-A1 owners: revision.

Also Gene himself has both the Denon AVP and POA.
Seth

Is he an official owner of both units?
Because if he is, then...

List of official owners of the AVP-A1;

1. Franin (& POA-A1)
2. Seth V
3. Gene (& POA-A1) *[to be confirmed]

 

[Seth V]

Denon Link 4th firmware update

Gene,

Would you happen to know when the update for Denon Link 4th is supposed to be available? With the A1UDCI currently available (in limited supply), many who are getting this player (myself included) are really looking forward to this update for our AVP's.

If possible, could you ask Jeff about this?

Thanks,

Seth

 

[Franin]

Hi Gene,

I would like to know if you can ask Jeff Talmadge (When you speak to him again) if is there sign of future updates for the AVP which will consist of Dolby Z and Audyssey DSX.

Thank you for your time