Pioneer VSX-1019....pphhhhhhhhh!

[Patrick_Wolf]

Everything else being equal, talking common sense, year 2009, class A/B receiver amps, the Pioneer VSX-1019 does not hold a candle compare to Onkyo TX-SR606, Marantz SR4003, Yamaha RX-V663, Denon AVR-1909 and Harman Kardon AVR 254.

LOTR

I am in no position to doubt your insight. But, some definitive proof would sure be nice if any exists yet out there in cyberspace. Not just on the 1019, but the newer Yamaha's too.

 

[Joeteck]

Are you serious?

The Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K is listed as weighting 29 pounds.

How the heck the 1019 could drop to only 19 pounds???

WoW! I just check the manual to confirm, you are absolutely right!

Unbelievable, only 90 watts at 1khz, 2 channels driven into 6-ohms!

What a joke!

I think my next receiver is going to be a 1973 vintage Aiwa model!

Looks like these are things to come. The Yamaha RX-V663 also weighs alot compared to the V665 as it lost about 10 lbs as well. They must be using a hybrid amplifier that uses less energy and less weight and to top it off, less features..

The VSX-1015 is 34lbs
The VSX-1016 is 33lbs 1 oz
The VSX-1017 is 33lbs 1 oz
The VSX-1018 is 29lbs 1 oz
The VSX-1019 is 19lbs 3 oz

The VSX-914 is 23lbs 6 oz
The VSX-915 is 22lbs 5 oz
The VSX-917 is 20lbs 3 oz
The VSX-918 is 17lbs 9 oz
The VSX-919 is 19lbs 3 oz

The VSX-814 is 23lbs 6 oz
The VSX-815 is 22lbs 5 oz
The VSX-816 is 20lbs 5 oz
The VSX-817 is 19lbs 2 oz
The VSX-818 is 17lbs 9 oz
The VSX-819 is 19lbs 14 oz

The VSX-515 is 21lbs 1 oz
The VSX-516 is 19lbs 10 oz
The VSX-517 is 19lbs
The VSX-518 is 17lbs 9 oz
The VSX-519 is 19lbs 7 oz


The VSX-415 is 18lbs 1 oz




Hmm.....

 

[bandphan]

JMO, but they are more than likely trying to set the elite line apart feature wise.

 

[Shock]

Everything else being equal, talking common sense, year 2009, class A/B receiver amps, the Pioneer VSX-1019 does not hold a candle compare to Onkyo TX-SR606, Marantz SR4003, Yamaha RX-V663, Denon AVR-1909 and Harman Kardon AVR 254.

LOTR

I would disagree with you completely, not to mention nearly all of those receivers are higher in price.

The average person is not going to notice a difference, except their wallet will be lighter.

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

I would disagree with you completely, not to mention nearly all of those receivers are higher in price.

The average person is not going to notice a difference, except their wallet will be lighter.

At release time, those AVRs may have been higher, but with factory refurbs (good as new) now, they are great deals.

VSX-1019AH-K - $500

TX-SR606 - $340 average (AC4L)
SR4003 - $370 average (AC4L) (no HD decoders)
RX-V663 - $360 (ebay)
AVR-1909 - $470 average
AVR 254 - $250 average (ebay) (has issues, most fixed w/ firmware update)

The 1018 was tough to find, but the VSX-01TXH Elite is selling for $515 on ebay. I really can't see any good reason why the 1019 would be a good buy at this time.

 

[croseiv]

No 1018 but I can provide one of the 1015 (four year old model, very robust).

VSX-1015TX innards. Essentially the same as the old VSX-52TX Elite from the same time. Beefy transformer and nice 15000 uF caps.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for the picture! I didn't take any pictures of mine when I had it apart and was trying to figure out why it wouldn't turn on. I wish that I would have.

 

[croseiv]

Thanks for the picture! I didn't take any pictures of mine when I had it apart and was trying to figure out why it wouldn't turn on. I wish that I would have.

You're quite welcome. It seems IMO, that the 1015 was the "top" of the lower tier receivers they were making then (more Elite like). I always felt it was a very nice receiver for the price. Especially with the pre-outs and multi channel ins. It's helped keep it somewhat current being able to run the Sony BDP-S550 with it via analogue connections.

 

[croseiv]

Here's a link to a review of the VSX-52TX. You can see the cosmetic similarities between the two receivers. I always thought the swinging door on the front of the receiver was a nice touch. Thye are only available higher up the Elite chain now.

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=VSX-52TX&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=0&u=http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/1204pioneer/

 

[tom67]

If I was buying a boat anchor, the main issue might be strictly weight....with an amp, it is more. But, again, I would think that Pioneer and Yamaha would make a point of telling us why the weight reduction is an improvement if they found a way to reduce mass and maintain quality.They simply do not discuss it which leads me to believe they know they are reducing value to some extent. All things being equal, I would rather have a lighter package.

 

[roshi]

There is clearly a shift going on in receivers. Obviously more emphasis is put on new codecs, hdmi, etc. Well, if you want to put more of that in, than you need take out some of the other stuff to make it still profitable, that's the way business works.
Personally, I kind of like the fact that they starting to put more features in the small receivers, because none of the small receiver had ever enough HDMI inputs or things like OSDs over HDMI. So I always had to look at the $1K and up receivers.
Most people who shop at that price level, probably wouldn't care if they save some on the amp section. People who want better amps buy separates anyways. So I guess it does suck that it doesn't have pre-outs...

 

[croseiv]

If I was buying a boat anchor, the main issue might be strictly weight....with an amp, it is more. But, again, I would think that Pioneer and Yamaha would make a point of telling us why the weight reduction is an improvement if they found a way to reduce mass and maintain quality.They simply do not discuss it which leads me to believe they know they are reducing value to some extent. All things being equal, I would rather have a lighter package.

It's funny how the boat anchor analogy seems to come up again and again by people. But I think weight is somewhat of an indicator of what is inside of an AVR. I think a large transformer and large capacitrs are still used to provide decent current. Just look at the higher dollar Elite receivers now running the ICE amps. They still weigh 40 lbs plus. I wonder why???

 

[croseiv]

70 lbs, with ICE amps. SC-09TX Elite

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

Yeah I suppose if a person's living room looked like this:

That SC-09TX might fit the bill.

 

[Seth=L]

you are perceptive and Yamaha just did the same thing where up to $600, their units weigh 19 lbs....I would assume if there were true advances allowing the weight loss while maintaining the quality, they would have extolled the virtues of the new designs...they did not....I think the goal is to scare up the entry level price for those wanting to go from mediocracy to quality from about $300 to $700. That niche is small but significant, perhaps 15%. Then the other 85% who could care less about specs will be paying 3-$600 for weak amps and could care less....

The RX-V**5 series has integrated output devices up to the RX-V865, which is pathetic. The Integrated output setup wasn't offered on any of the RX-V series aside from the lowest model, the RX-V363.

Fortunately Pioneer is using bi-polar transistor configurations for even their lowest model this year, which is funny considering all but the VSX-1018 used integrated circuits for last year's models. The VSX-519 is looking very tempting.

 

[Seth=L]

You do realize the bulk of the weight is usually heatsinks, and with increased efficiency comes less of a need for them right?

For $499 msrp you get a receiver that's worth the money. Most people who are going to spend 500 dollars on a receiver don't need pre-outs in the first place.

To call them garbage is a little overboard. Also to everyone who says their old amps were better, you're just holding onto your old amps cause you're old too! Ya oldies!

Like Adam......oldy mcolderson.

I would say very little of the receiver weight has to do with the heatsink. The power transformer takes up the largest single percentage of weight, second comes overall construction of the unit itself, heatsink, then the rest of the components.

 

[Seth=L]

The reason I started this thread was because I saw a huge change in direction on their top end model of the series that almost diverted my attention away from the whole line. As I mentioned before the 8** of the series used to have preouts, which for the price was freiken cool. They dropped that but they kept the ball rolling with the 1***. Now they've completely squashed the power out of their non Elite receiver line. Might as well be shopping for Sony AVRs, tons of HDMI inputs and features you couldn't begin to shake a stick at (mostly because we don't know what most of them do).

I had a Sony STR-DA1000ES AVR (which was a $800 receiver back in 03-04 area). I couldn't believe a receiver of that level not only had no preouts, but it also had no variable x-over. I will give Pioneer many kudos for making variable x-overs mandatory on all their receivers since I don't know when.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good value product. I think the lower models (specifically the VSX-519) are a pretty good deal. The value seems to lessen as you go up to a higher model (maybe that's just because of my focus). The VSX-519 would be awesome for anyone running a sub+sat configuration of decent quality. You get the benefit of discrete output devices, HDMI audio support to a level that most people can use, sexy finish to match those Samsung TVs. For $200, it's a sweet deal.

 

[croseiv]

The reason I started this thread was because I saw a huge change in direction on their top end model of the series that almost diverted my attention away from the whole line. As I mentioned before the 8** of the series used to have preouts, which for the price was freiken cool. They dropped that but they kept the ball rolling with the 1***. Now they've completely squashed the power out of their non Elite receiver line. Might as well be shopping for Sony AVRs, tons of HDMI inputs and features you couldn't begin to shake a stick at (mostly because we don't know what most of them do).

I had a Sony STR-DA1000ES AVR (which was a $800 receiver back in 03-04 area). I couldn't believe a receiver of that level not only had no preouts, but it also had no variable x-over. I will give Pioneer many kudos for making variable x-overs mandatory on all their receivers since I don't know when.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good value product. I think the lower models (specifically the VSX-519) are a pretty good deal. The value seems to lessen as you go up to a higher model (maybe that's just because of my focus). The VSX-519 would be awesome for anyone running a sub+sat configuration of decent quality. You get the benefit of discrete output devices, HDMI audio support to a level that most people can use, sexy finish to match those Samsung TVs. For $200, it's a sweet deal.

This hits the nail on the head!

 

[Lordoftherings]

From numerous readings in the World Wide Web (www) or cyberspace.

I am in no position to doubt your insight. But, some definitive proof would sure be nice if any exists yet out there in cyberspace. Not just on the 1019, but the newer Yamaha's too.

Oh, you can doubt me, that's what makes it interesting.

No concrete proof, hust a hunch.

Well, I could have add the Onkyo TX-SR607; and you did notice that Yamaha RX-V663 instead of the 665.

LOTR

 

[Lordoftherings]

A view from the other room...

I would disagree with you completely, not to mention nearly all of those receivers are higher in price.

The average person is not going to notice a difference, except their wallet will be lighter.

I'm talking common sense, everything being equal, which means "street price".

You absolutely have the right to disagree completely with me.

My comment was for the non-average person.
I don't carry a wallet, only a roll of money.

LOTR