This could kill business investments if it's true.

[markw]

"This of course is a violation of one of the basic principles of bankruptcy law, which is that secured creditors — those who lended money only on the contractual promise that if the debt was unpaid they’d get specific property back — get paid off in full before unsecured creditors get anything."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/White-House-puts-UAW-ahead-of-property-rights-44415057.html

Is this the new deal? Change the rules to suit ones political agenda?

 

[unreal.freak]

I seen a tid bit on Fox news today about this. Apparently Fox has tried to get the White House to respond in defense of the allegations of the "bullying''.
They have yet to respond, or deny the accusations. It doesn't surprise me. Those in power abuse it on a daily basis. The old saying "to much of a good thing, is still a good thing" doesn't apply to politicians and Gov.

I seen a quote today by Colon Powell that blew my mind. Hes obviously lost touch with reality.


The text quoted from the article: The party must realize that the country has changed, he said. "Americans do want to pay taxes for services," he said. "Americans are looking for more government in their life, not less."

The link:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressdaily/print_friendly.php?ID=cda_20090505_8843

 

[griffinconst]

The response is...there is no proof, it didn't happen. So much for transparencey, oops, there never was any of that either was there? Another promise broken.
The UAW gets a controlling share while people that put up real money get strong armed into 20 cents on the dollar. Looks more like the mob than the American government.
Anybody who thought Bush was taking rights away should take a good look at what's been going on the last 2 months.
Oh crap...I'll probably get a visit from the IRS for that statement.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Oh crap...I'll probably get a visit from the IRS for that statement.

Yes, be verrry careful. Get off the grid, just disappears from society, then, maybe, you can live out your natural life

 

[Davemcc]

How soon do I get to say I told you so?

 

[Tomorrow]

How soon do I get to say I told you so?

Aw, Dave...you could have said it weeks ago! (Not that any of your antagonists would have agreed...based of course on their "feelings". )

You know, the part of the linked article quoting Powell about Americans wishing for more, not less government in their lives...in a sick, sad sort of way, I think he's right. This country now appears to have a majority, or at least a plurality firmly entrenched into an entitlement philosophy of life. Critical thought seems to have given way to a gimme-gimme-gimme approach. Here them ring..."SOMEONE, PUHLEEEZE take care of me. ME!"

Philosophical observers have for centuries now have summed up the form changes within the lifespan of a democracy. We, it appears, are on the greased skids of the downhill collapse. I hope my depressive attitude is just that of an old man who has seen a lot of changes and not all of them for the better. But with this latest round of wealth redistribution, idiotic free-fall spending marking the terminal economic death of the next generation (or sooner), I have lost faith in our ability to recover the strength and greatness (not perfection, mind you), that was the United States. I truly hope positive, intelligent, and proactive individuals take up the fight for political sanity in our country. People like TLSGuy and Annunaki come to mind. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have any current answer to our decay other than to find new ways of disposing of common sense.

But...well...as I said, I'm old, but I'm mighty happy to have lived through probably the most interesting, peaceful and positive growth period of this or any country that ever existed. I would hate to bid it adieu.

Cheers, all.

 

[rnatalli]

It's simple really. A democracy is born. Everyone works hard because they have that warm and fuzzy feeling. Some people pull ahead of the others. Those left behind feel envy. Those on top start to have disdain for those below and being to take what they can. Those below decide to vote for someone who will take back. Those on top stop doing as much as do those below. The whole thing collapses.

There's no one to blame for this process as it's the natural course of a democracy. Humans are never satisfied with what they have and we really know how to make a mess of things. Even if the Earth was a paradise, we'd find a way to mess it up. Bottom line, nothing lasts forever.

 

[markw]

It's simple really. A democracy is born. Everyone works hard because they have that warm and fuzzy feeling. Some people pull ahead of the others. Those left behind feel envy. Those on top start to have disdain for those below and being to take what they can. Those below decide to vote for someone who will take back. Those on top stop doing as much as do those below. The whole thing collapses.

There's no one to blame for this process as it's the natural course of a democracy. Humans are never satisfied with what they have and we really know how to make a mess of things. Even if the Earth was a paradise, we'd find a way to mess it up. Bottom line, nothing lasts forever.

One cannot, or should not, retroactively change the rules. That's not democracy. That's something else. What, I'm not suite sure yet. Time will tell.

 

[lsiberian]

When you invest in something you should understand the risks. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. This is a very good sign that our president actually knows what he's doing. You always help those that helped you get elected. That's common sense. Don't worry if you need help he'll make sure you get it. We finally have a president that cares about the poor and people cry about him helping them out some.

The country is still getting better. We just need to give Obama his chance to run things. Bush and the conservatives had 8 years to do as they pleased. Now Obama will probably get the same.

If you want to protest him you could always grow your hair out or something.

Conservatives are so scared of liberals it's funny. I remind you when Clinton was in charge this country got a lot better. It got a lot better when bush was in charge. I mean look where we are today. Our technology is amazing. We are doing so well people can freak out over something like the swine flu.

 

[lsiberian]

One cannot, or should not, retroactively change the rules. That's not democracy. That's something else. What, I'm not suite sure yet. Time will tell.

Actually Democracy is about the majority ruling. The Majority put Obama in charge of this mess. You are in the minority. Obama represents the majority of our people.

 

[highfigh]

It's simple really. A democracy is born. Everyone works hard because they have that warm and fuzzy feeling. Some people pull ahead of the others. Those left behind feel envy. Those on top start to have disdain for those below and being to take what they can. Those below decide to vote for someone who will take back. Those on top stop doing as much as do those below. The whole thing collapses.

There's no one to blame for this process as it's the natural course of a democracy. Humans are never satisfied with what they have and we really know how to make a mess of things. Even if the Earth was a paradise, we'd find a way to mess it up. Bottom line, nothing lasts forever.

This country did not start out as a democracy. It began as a Federal Republic and has been changed into more of a democracy by people in government who think government should rule by making the people depend on it for what they need, which leads to the people actually needing that government. If the people need that particular government, it won't be removed. Please read each link fully, not just the first parts.

Democracy:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Democracy

Federalism:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Federalism

Republic:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Republic

 

[rnatalli]

This country did not start out as a democracy. It began as a Federal Republic and has been changed into more of a democracy by people in government who think government should rule by making the people depend on it for what they need, which leads to the people actually needing that government. If the people need that particular government, it won't be removed. Please read each link fully, not just the first parts.

Democracy:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Democracy

Federalism:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Federalism

Republic:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Republic

Where do I reference the U.S. in my post? Perhaps you should read more carefully. I was speaking in general. When I say democracy, I'm basically referring to giving everyone with a heartbeat the right to vote. Please, lets not split hairs and start looking at dictionaries.

 

[markw]

Actually Democracy is about the majority ruling. The Majority put Obama in charge of this mess. You are in the minority. Obama represents the majority of our people.

As the other poster pointed out, this a republic, not a democracy. We vote for people who are supposed to represent the interests of our country. But, there's no guarantee they won't usurp that power and do what's best for a small number of their supporters.

AFAICT, all this does is take what's rightfully due away from those who invested, in good faith, in the auto companies and gives it those who strangled it in the first place. It merely drives the companies that invested in the auto makers into dire financial straits. Now, will the government bail them out too?

How many big money sources will be willing to invest in big business' when they find that the rules for recouping their investments can be changed after-the-fact?

The unions will have to feed off themselves from now on, not the companies their members worked for. Do you really think they can turn a profit? Are you prepared to have the government to continue to sink money into these failing auto companies?

 

[Tomorrow]

You always help those that helped you get elected. That's common sense. Don't worry if you need help he'll make sure you get it. We finally have a president that cares about the poor and people cry about him helping them out some.

Actually Democracy is about the majority ruling. The Majority put Obama in charge of this mess. You are in the minority. Obama represents the majority of our people.

Thank you for the exemplary demonstration of my point. The majority...yep..."gimme-gimme-gimme" and without regard for the consequences.



BTW, it may be a minute point for you, but BHO was elected by a plurality of the people in the U.S. and as president he represents ALL the people of the U.S.

 

[nibhaz]

When you invest in something you should understand the risks. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. This is a very good sign that our president actually knows what he's doing. You always help those that helped you get elected. That's common sense. Don't worry if you need help he'll make sure you get it. We finally have a president that cares about the poor and people cry about him helping them out some.

The country is still getting better. We just need to give Obama his chance to run things. Bush and the conservatives had 8 years to do as they pleased. Now Obama will probably get the same.

If you want to protest him you could always grow your hair out or something.

Conservatives are so scared of liberals it's funny. I remind you when Clinton was in charge this country got a lot better. It got a lot better when bush was in charge. I mean look where we are today. Our technology is amazing. We are doing so well people can freak out over something like the swine flu.

I don’t think you fully understand this particular situation. The administration is/was trying to bully senior bond holders into taking less money for the bonds that they hold.

The key point is to understand what a senior bond is. They are generally the highest rated (safest) form of bond that a company can issue. When a business goes into bankruptcy, the senior bond holders have the superior claim to the issuer’s assets and income. In exchange for this “security” these bonds generally payout a lower % as compared to other bonds issued by the same company. When a company goes to bankruptcy, it is these bond holders who are first in line to get paid backed.

If that is the basis for which these investors made their decisions, how can you possibly put the blame on them? What investor in their right mind could foresee the federal government trying to strong arm them and change the rules? Maybe be in Venezuela, but surely not in the US.

But the real shame is who these senior bond holders generally are. The vast majority of them are not the super rich individuals that everyone loves to hate. They are, in fact, major institutional investors. We’re talking pension funds for: police, firefighters, teachers and auto workers, we’re talking about trust for charities and Universities, we are talking about the life’s work of the little people.

They are being screwed by the same people who claim to care the most about them, and they don’t even realize it yet.

 

[unreal.freak]

I don’t think you fully understand this particular situation. The administration is/was trying to bully senior bond holders into taking less money for the bonds that they hold.

The key point is to understand what a senior bond is. They are generally the highest rated (safest) form of bond that a company can issue. When a business goes into bankruptcy, the senior bond holders have the superior claim to the issuer’s assets and income. In exchange for this “security” these bonds generally payout a lower % as compared to other bonds issued by the same company. When a company goes to bankruptcy, it is these bond holders who are first in line to get paid backed.

If that is the basis for which these investors made their decisions, how can you possibly put the blame on them? What investor in their right mind could foresee the federal government trying to strong arm them and change the rules? Maybe be in Venezuela, but surely not in the US.

But the real shame is who these senior bond holders generally are. The vast majority of them are not the super rich individuals that everyone loves to hate. They are, in fact, major institutional investors. We’re talking pension funds for: police, firefighters, teachers and auto workers, we’re talking about trust for charities and Universities, we are talking about the life’s work of the little people.

They are being screwed by the same people who claim to care the most about them, and they don’t even realize it yet.

Amen!! i couldnt have said it better. I have money tied up in low risk bonds. It worries me to see this kind of stuff going on. Maybe i shouldnt worry, but it is hard not to.

My recent 401k statement looks alot like it did 3 years ago. thats pretty sad because my company has a match and also gives an end of the year profit sharing bonus to each employees 401k.

Im sure there is someone sitting behind a desk somewhere trying to figure out how to relieve people like me of all of it.....legally.




Peace,
Tommy