The current crop of muscle cars

[CraigV]

I’m sure there are more than a few motor heads on the site, and I wanted to take a look at the current crop of “Muscle Cars”. From the big three out of Detroit we have all new versions of classic wheel spinning loud and proud big block engines. Ford started the renaissance with the re-introduction of the venerable Mustang some years ago, and call me nostalgic, but I appreciate an auto-makers effort to re-capture the style of the older vehicles. So, how well (or not) did they do? Well…

The Mustang

The Dodge Challenger

Chevy Camaro

Chevy Corvette

There was also a newer version of the Pontiac GTO, which while it had a powerful V8, the styling cues left a lot to be desired, and it only lasted 3 years, being discontinued in 2006.

Yes, there are sporty offerings from other makers, like the RX-8 from Mazda, Nissan 370Z, but these cars are generally 6 cylinders and lower HP. There is also the popularity of the WRX from Subaru and the Lancer Evo from Mitsubishi which are gaining ground in the HP department, albeit from a turbo charged 4 cylinder. But there’s something about stomping on the gas pedal and hearing the throaty growl of a big block V8 roaring under the hood. And no amount of plastic clad “tuner” cars can match the raw power of these vehicles.

And what about the power? We’ll limit this to the 8 cylinder engines.

Camaro 426hp 420ft lbs torque
Corvette C6 430 & 424
Challenger RT8 425 & 420
Mustang GT 300 & 320
Mustang Shelby GT 540 & 510
GTO 400 & 395

Like the Mustang, there are different levels of power and models to be had, but the price range is all over the board.

It’s also worth mentioning just for the fun of it two cars at each extreme of the spectrum - The Lotus Elise and the Bugatti Veron.

The Elise has a Toyota 4 cylinder engine that produces 189HP & 133ft lbs torque. So what makes it worth mentioning in this group? It weighs less than 2,000 pounds, which makes its horse power - to - weight ratio phenomenal, and because it’s so small it handles extremely well, and can keep pace with most of the above cars.

At the other end of the spectrum and at a cost of $1.5 million is the 16 cylinder all-wheel-drive Bugatti Veron. It boasts 1001 (yes that’s one thousand and one) HP and 922 ft lbs of torque. It needs all of that power to push its nearly 5,000 pounds around.

So, sound off - how do you think the new cars compare to the old?

 

[Sheep]

I understand your viewpoint and agree that V8's have a nice sound (esp with high lift cams), but they are no longer a viable option for horsepower these days. Smaller engines with displacement adders (Turbocharger, Supercharger) can produce just as much power, and also get better fuel economy.

I also wouldn't count out V6's either. The Nissan 370z and IS350 are shinning examples as to the power attainable with these engines, as well as the R35 GTR. If the transmission could hold up, it would spank every car you listed to 60 (launch control, 3.5 seconds).

The modern 4 cylinder engine is the best performer relative to it's displacement, in almost ever regard expect for torque. However, the car's with 4 cylinder engines are generally smaller, and lighter, requiring less torque. The Subaru STi and Mitsubishi Evo's are examples of what factory cars can produce under 3.0 liters (300hp for the Sti, and up to 420hp with the Evo). These cars are expensive however, and have stricter maintenance programs. The Honda Civic Si is a great all round performer with 200hp and still getting good fuel mileage in the city. Lets not forget all the aftermarket support and extreme over engineering that goes into these cars, where 1.6 liter engines can produce up to 240whp with mostly factory components (sans rods, pistons, cams, valves, and fuel system). Turbocharged solutions have been proven reliable up to 300hp in some cases with stock bottoms (good tune required). With all this available, it's very hard to justify the sound of the V8, when you can have the performance, in a better every day solution.

SheepStar

 

[Matt34]

The Challenger is the best looking "retro" muscle car out there IMO and they really stuck close to the original.

 

[fast1]

anybody here owns a bugatti veron?

 

[Alex2507]

anybody here owns a bugatti veron?

No.

I really like the Camaro. The 'Vette would probably be the most fun to drive but then everybody would think ... .
It's like pick on Dave hour.

 

[Sheep]

It's like pick on Dave hour.

Dave smells.

SheepStar

 

[j_garcia]

I also wouldn't count out V6's either. The Nissan 370z and IS350 are shinning examples as to the power attainable with these engines, as well as the R35 GTR. If the transmission could hold up, it would spank every car you listed to 60 (launch control, 3.5 seconds).

With the revised launch control for 2010 it WILL, and word is the tranny has no issues any longer. And that doesn't even include what the SpecV can do

The base Camaro has as much HP as the Mustang GT. The Mustang isn't really in the picture with the Challenger and the Camaro right now.

Of all listed, I would take the Elise (or Exige) or the 67-69 Camaro

 

[adwilk]

To say that the sound of a V8 is the only sensual advantage over the smaller engine performance rigs is just ridiculous. Anybody thats driven a beefy V8 and even the fastest 4 bangers notice much much more than just sound. Even at similar quarter times, the experiences are worlds apart. I'm not saying that the V8 is comprehensively superior, just different. I, however, do prefer the larger CI applications.

Anyway, the camaro is just plain sexy. I'd add the G8 to the list. Not a retro remake but a fine piece of equipment. Sorry to see pontiac go.

 

[Sheep]

To say that the sound of a V8 is the only sensual advantage over the smaller engine performance rigs is just ridiculous. Anybody thats driven a beefy V8 and even the fastest 4 bangers notice much much more than just sound. Even at similar quarter times, the experiences are worlds apart. I'm not saying that the V8 is comprehensively superior, just different. I, however, do prefer the larger CI applications.

Anyway, the camaro is just plain sexy. I'd add the G8 to the list. Not a retro remake but a fine piece of equipment. Sorry to see pontiac go.

I've been in fast V8 cars (675hp drag corvette, 10.00 second quarter). I didn't mean sound is the ONLY difference, but for the average racer, it is far more economical to run a light weight car with a smaller, lighter power plant in most racing applications. All out dragging with no budget will swing in favor of larger V8s with superchargers and NO2.

And at the end of the day it's all about performance/dollar. If a 1.6 liter civic can get down the track faster then a 5.0 liter stang, and use less gas, all the better.

SheepStar

 

[Alex2507]

If a 1.6 liter civic can get down the track faster then a 5.0 liter stang, and use less gas, all the better.

That's all good. Kind of a whatever pushes your hair back kind of thing but personally I would be happiest driving the Camaro slow ... past glass buildings while I check myself out slow ... look at me slow.

 

[adwilk]

I've been in fast V8 cars (675hp drag corvette, 10.00 second quarter). I didn't mean sound is the ONLY difference, but for the average racer, it is far more economical to run a light weight car with a smaller, lighter power plant in most racing applications. All out dragging with no budget will swing in favor of larger V8s with superchargers and NO2.

And at the end of the day it's all about performance/dollar. If a 1.6 liter civic can get down the track faster then a 5.0 liter stang, and use less gas, all the better.

SheepStar

I'm not arguing that... I'm just saying its a different experience. A corvette as a daily driver is much more fun to me than a souped up ricer.. I like the added power. Naturally aspirated large motors run through the RPM band much differently than the smaller stuff. Its just different. When money is no object.... The only cars I've found lots of fun to drive with smaller motors are the Porsche offerings...

 

[Adam]

...me slow.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[J/K!]

 

[Sheep]

That's all good. Kind of a whatever pushes your hair back kind of thing but personally I would be happiest driving the Camaro slow ... past glass buildings while I check myself out slow ... look at me slow.

From what I've read looking at you isn't something that should be savored...


OHhh snapppp.

Sawz brah. I'll rep when I get a chance.

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

I'm not arguing that... I'm just saying its a different experience. A corvette as a daily driver is much more fun to me than a souped up ricer.. I like the added power. Naturally aspirated large motors run through the RPM band much differently than the smaller stuff. Its just different. When money is no object.... The only cars I've found lots of fun to drive with smaller motors are the Porsche offerings...

Okay come on, I'm trying you have a nice conversation with you. I'm really holding back, and you throw out words like ricer. I'm not talking about ricers. I'm talking about 600+ hp 2 liters that run 9s and 10s, and then get 400km to a tank.

If you get the chance (highly unlikely) try to test out one of these..

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SheepStar

 

[Davemcc]

Supposing something happened to my Vette and I were out shopping to replace it, I would get a 2010 Cadillac CTS-V, in a heartbeat. Same engine as the Corvette ZR-1 but in a Cadillac at a surprisingly affordable price. I like cars that are bigger, easier to get in and out of and have some room to move around inside. The Vette is a great car, no question about that, but I'm thinking that I'm just not a "Vette guy". But you never know until you try, right?

The Camaro's styling has been hit or miss, especially the interior. But GM's got the engine right for it. The LS3 is an awesome engine that delivers over 400+ HP and still gets over 30MPG in the Vette and probably 26MPG in the Camaro. The V6 Camaro is the new pony car base engine leader with over 300HP.

The new Challenger is truest to it's heritage. It's a great looking car but much larger than the original. Like other Chrysler products of late, it doesn't have the refinement and fine details nailed down like GM's products. And at it's heart, the Challenger is still basically a Chrysler 300. With either Hemi option, it could be a pretty fun car.

The Mustang survives for a whole different reason than the others. For starters, it's not all that expensive in it's base form for a small, sporty 4 seater. It relies more on daily usability and comfort as it's strength as opposed to horsepower or ultimate handling. It's easy to drive and comfortable to cruise around in. The GT in it's stock form is only now getting to the point where it's power can make it a contender. The Mustang community has always had to rely on aftermarket support for it's power and handling.

In reply to the original post, at the high end of dream cars, I would take a Lambo Murcielago if I could ever afford it. At the low end, I kind of like the 240HP Cobalt SS. I've recently tried to convince my wife to consider the SS. It's got plenty of power in its stock form and already has a ton of aftermarket support for power and handling upgrades. Too bad it only comes in a manual transmission so my wife won't consider it.

 

[adwilk]

Okay come on, I'm trying you have a nice conversation with you. I'm really holding back, and you throw out words like ricer. I'm not talking about ricers. I'm talking about 600+ hp 2 liters that run 9s and 10s, and then get 400km to a tank.

If you get the chance (highly unlikely) try to test out one of these..

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SheepStar

Dont hit me with the open wheel car... I'm talking street legal daily drivers. Maybe ricer was a bit harsh, but theres also "social" implications that come with the car you drive. I'm also a red blooded American that likes the muscle cars we produce. Sheep, I'm really not bashing your choice, I'm not. Just simply stating my preference. To each their own.

That caddy is freakin sweet, dave.

 

[Davemcc]

That caddy is freakin sweet, dave.

The CTS-V is the only car that's ever given me second thoughts about the Vette. It wasn't available when I got the Vette but made me think Damn, I should have waited.

 

[Sheep]

Dont hit me with the open wheel car... I'm talking street legal daily drivers. Maybe ricer was a bit harsh, but theres also "social" implications that come with the car you drive. I'm also a red blooded American that likes the muscle cars we produce. Sheep, I'm really not bashing your choice, I'm not. Just simply stating my preference. To each their own.

That caddy is freakin sweet, dave.

It is street legal, just takes a long *** tiem to get your hands on one.

SheepStar

 

[yettitheman]

V8 you say?

I'd have one of these:

Enough said.

 

[Scarriere]

All this retro-muscle is totally cool and I would find it difficult to pick one. However, I see the corvette horsepower at 430 but the picture is of the ZR-1. The ZR-1 has 638 HP, goes 0-60 before you can say "holy cow" and is DEFINITELY what I would want. I know I would be taking a road course before taking delivery.