Im saddened!!

[CraigV]

The Christian flag is dear to me, so i chose it......it doesnt matter what flag or symbol for that matter, i just used it for an example ill edit it to read properly for ya

Am I to take this to mean you don’t really mean what you say?

 

[unreal.freak]

Am I to take this to mean you don’t really mean what you say?

am i to take this as your trying to double talk.....LOL

Are you confused?

 

[CraigV]

am i to take this as your trying to double talk.....LOL

Are you confused?

Not in the least. I see a person defending blind, unfounded ignorance and hatred, and then trying to back-pedal to cover his arse. I also find on odd juxtaposition in the two quotes you have as your signature.

 

[jamie2112]

Your opinion only proves your ignorance on the subject. And likely is based off of the opinions of the leftist media. These folks that are burried there fought and died under that flag. they have every right to display it proudly. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it wrong. This country is great in that way. People can hold differering opinions on things and still you cant trample on their rights. He desicrated 4 graves while stealing to do it.....your OK with that to arent you?

No I am not ok with him stealing the flags I am ok with the reason he did it. The people who are still using that flag are racist PERIODthere is no debating that at all. Would you be ok with cross burning because (idiots) have a right to do whatever they want on THEIR property? It is a racist flag and almost everyone who sees it associates it with the southern racist movement. You profess to be a christian and you still have no problem with that flag? Thats double talk if I ever heard it....Race has EVERYTHING to do with this. Open your eyes Tommy its a racist flag dude....... period.

 

[jamie2112]

Not in the least. I see a person defending blind, unfounded ignorance and hatred, and then trying to back-pedal to cover his arse. I also find on odd juxtaposition in the two quotes you have as your signature.

Right.........good point Craig....

 

[unreal.freak]

No I am not ok with him stealing the flags I am ok with the reason he did it. The people who are still using that flag are racist PERIODthere is no debating that at all. Would you be ok with cross burning because (idiots) have a right to do whatever they want on THEIR property? It is a racist flag and almost everyone who sees it associates it with the southern racist movement. You profess to be a christian and you still have no problem with that flag? Thats double talk if I ever heard it....Race has EVERYTHING to do with this. Open your eyes Tommy its a racist flag dude....... period.

Like i said I dont view it as a racist flag. That may come from the fact i have been around it a large portion of my life. The Georgia flag used to display part of it. The FL flag has resemblance also. So to call it a racist flag is a bit unfair. Now there are groups who use it that are racists, but i wouldnt associate all people who use it as racists. The same way i wouldnt associate all bible readers with David Koresh. Dont be so narrow minded about this. I know you are very emotional from another thread. Dont think of the flag as a symbol of hate. Think bad things about the people who use it a a symbol of hate. I know it is hard for you to imagine, but not all people that value things you disagree with are bad. I wouldnt be ok with cross burning if it is used as an intimidation methode.... otherwise im ok with it. I dont think Cross burning should be allowed to be used to intimidate a specific race or religious group.

 

[unreal.freak]

Not in the least. I see a person defending blind, unfounded ignorance and hatred, and then trying to back-pedal to cover his arse. I also find on odd juxtaposition in the two quotes you have as your signature.

If i would have know what you hold dear as in flags or such i would have used that instead of the Christian flag. It would have made my drove my point home. Unfortunately i dont know much about you. So i used the Christian flag. Thats all there was to it. Dont read more into it than there was. What hatred have i displayed?

 

[jamie2112]

Low there are groups who use it that are racists, but i wouldnt associate all people who use it as racists. The same way i wouldnt associate all bible readers with David Koresh. Dont be so narrow minded about this. I know you are very emotional from another thread. Dont think of the flag as a symbol of hate. Think bad things about the people who use it a a symbol of hate. I know it is hard for you to imagine, but not all people that value things you disagree with are bad. I wouldnt be ok with cross burning if it is used as an intimidation methode.... otherwise im ok with it. I dont think Cross burning should be allowed to be used to intimidate a specific race or religious group.

Please tell me when a crossburning ISN'T used in a intimadating way.That alone is making my point for me. I am not emotional from the other thread I just cannot believe that you don't see that flag is associated with racists period. I would love to have a poll to see just how many people think it is a racist symbol. I bet it would suprise you Tommy. You are right everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is just like ANY political type thread everyone loses. I have no hard feeling for you Tommy I just disagree with you on a few things....no biggie. Now thats what makes this a great country...

 

[unreal.freak]

Please tell me when a crossburning ISN'T used in a intimadating way.That alone is making my point for me. I am not emotional from the other thread I just cannot believe that you don't see that flag is associated with racists period. I would love to have a poll to see just how many people think it is a racist symbol. I bet it would suprise you Tommy. You are right everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is just like ANY political type thread everyone loses. I have no hard feeling for you Tommy I just disagree with you on a few things....no biggie. Now thats what makes this a great country...

Right on Man!! I would like to see this Douchebag Jailed for stealing and grave desicration.

I really dont know of any other activity in wich a cross is burned, that isnt used for intimidation.If someone wants to go burn one and lives 100 miles from everyone else...so be it. Who am i to judge.

I do see that racists use this flag as a symbol of hate. But i also see some old women who use it a symbol of respect for thier ancestors. If they say they dont use it as a symbol of hate, im inclined to believe them.

I think it boils down to Rights.....and what we are willing to do about acts that voilate peoples rights.

 

[Sheep]

Who wants to say Lee was an evil man.

Me!

Lee is an evil man.

SheepStar

 

[Ito]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I hope some of you know that quote comes from, and hopefully more of you come to understand it.

No matter how much I hate that flag, I'll be damned if it isn't there right to wave it proud. Even if it is out of pure hatred, it is my right to hate you. However, this ends when I act upon my hatred (i.e. violence). I am reminded of a certain historical event in Skokie, Illinois.

 

[CraigV]

I hope some of you know that quote comes from, and hopefully more of you come to understand it.

No matter how much I hate that flag, I'll be damned if it isn't there right to wave it proud. Even if it is out of pure hatred, it is my right to hate you. However, this ends when I act upon my hatred (i.e. violence). I am reminded of a certain historical event in Skokie, Illinois.

That’s the heart of the issue here - for many people, the flag in question represents the violent actions taken against persons of color. Tolerating differences is good, tolerating hatred and violence isn’t.
In my opinion, no one should have the “right” to perpetuate these attributes.

 

[CraigV]

Allow me to share a personal experience. About 7 years ago, the Wisconsin chapter of the KKK petitioned the Minnesota state government to allow them to hold a rally - on the steps of our capitol. It sickened me that our government would allow such a thing to take place, but they did allow it on the predication of “freedom of speech”. Not surprisingly, the local radio & news stations reported on the story before the rally took place. And so, I decided to go to the rally in protest of what these (and I use the term loosely) people had to say.

They brought a PA system & propaganda with them as they tried in vain to recruit new members. The chicken **** bastards even brought their own young children to use as shields.
I was on the other side of a police barricade with over 2000 people all telling these people they were not welcome, and no one wanted to hear their hate propaganda. At the end of their rally, one fact became quite clear - even with their PA system, the crowd on the other side had been so loud, not one word these idiots spewed had been heard. Their entire reason for being there was moot. As they made their way back to their cars, they were chased by angry protesters who let them know in no uncertain terms never to come back.

Afterwards, I wondered if the lesson that the oppressor had become the minority, hated and chased, was lost on these people.

 

[Ito]

That’s the heart of the issue here - for many people, the flag in question represents the violent actions taken against persons of color. Tolerating differences is good, tolerating hatred and violence isn’t.
In my opinion, no one should have the “right” to perpetuate these attributes.

It just doesn't work that way. Just because people are reminded of violent racist acts does not mean anything. Free speech covers ALL speech. The freedom of speech is something that if not protected for everyone, then it is pointless.

Allow me to share a personal experience. About 7 years ago, the Wisconsin chapter of the KKK petitioned the Minnesota state government to allow them to hold a rally - on the steps of our capitol. It sickened me that our government would allow such a thing to take place, but they did allow it on the predication of “freedom of speech”. Not surprisingly, the local radio & news stations reported on the story before the rally took place. And so, I decided to go to the rally in protest of what these (and I use the term loosely) people had to say.

They brought a PA system & propaganda with them as they tried in vain to recruit new members. The chicken **** bastards even brought their own young children to use as shields.
I was on the other side of a police barricade with over 2000 people all telling these people they were not welcome, and no one wanted to hear their hate propaganda. At the end of their rally, one fact became quite clear - even with their PA system, the crowd on the other side had been so loud, not one word these idiots spewed had been heard. Their entire reason for being there was moot. As they made their way back to their cars, they were chased by angry protesters who let them know in no uncertain terms never to come back.

Afterwards, I wondered if the lesson that the oppressor had become the minority, hated and chased, was lost on these people.

I give you big props for going out there and protesting! Really, I think that is the best thing we can do is never let what they say be heard. At trust me, I would gladly beat the sh*t out of any one of them. However, it is still their right to free speech

 

[majorloser]

I'm sure there are very few here that can say they have relatives that fought and died under that banner.

I am one.

I lost many family members on both sides of that conflict. In fact, my great great grandfather was shot and killed on horseback by his own cousin (my father's side). My GG grandfather was a major in the Union Army and his cousin was a rifleman in the Confederate Army.

The earliest known records of my family go back to before 1730 in Virginia. My family arrived long before that year but as was common at that time all records were kept by the church and were destroyed by fire in the late 1700's. Both sides of my family lived in what is now known as West Virginia. Not an area known for slavery. More like frontier or mountain area.

So what does all this mean. Probably nothing to anybody else. But I have a fairly unique perspective of the Civil War since both of my parents are quite avid historians of the era.

Oh, and my GG grandfather on my mother's side was Jefferson Davis Bohan. Guess you can tell which flag he fought under.

 

[Davemcc]

As they made their way back to their cars, they were chased by angry protesters who let them know in no uncertain terms never to come back.

Afterwards, I wondered if the lesson that the oppressor had become the minority, hated and chased, was lost on these people.

You seem so proud of your participation in mob rule that used fear, intimidation and the threat of violence against those with whom you disagree to protest their use of fear, intimidation and threats of violence. I would argue that if it's not right for them to use, it's also not right for you to participate in those same activities. At least you felt better for yourself afterwards, right?

I'm not now nor will I ever defend the KKK but for moral superiority to be real, you actually have to be morally superior, not simply recycling those same tactics that offend you onto somebody else.

 

[Adam]

Me!

Lee is an evil man.

How did Noel get into this conversation?

Political threads confuse me...

 

[jamie2112]

How did Noel get into this conversation?

Political threads confuse me...

Hehehehe........

 

[markw]

One question...

Is the cemetary public or private property?

See where this is going?

 

[CraigV]

You seem so proud of your participation in mob rule that used fear, intimidation and the threat of violence against those with whom you disagree to protest their use of fear, intimidation and threats of violence. I would argue that if it's not right for them to use, it's also not right for you to participate in those same activities. At least you felt better for yourself afterwards, right?

I'm not now nor will I ever defend the KKK but for moral superiority to be real, you actually have to be morally superior, not simply recycling those same tactics that offend you onto somebody else.

Any time I can help someone gain a fresh perspective, yes, I am proud. No one - not one person on the protest side - did anything more than tell these bastards to leave and not come back. No harm was inflicted on anyone.