Ported AXIS

[sawzalot]

Get the table saw. Circular saws are great, but if you can get a table saw do it. They are great for long cuts. Circular saws are better for cross cuts IMO. Though a radial arm saw is even nicer.

For Cabinet grade birch in our area you will need to hit up home depot. Lowe's doesn't usually have any. I suggest lowes for normal cabinets because they have plenty of precut lumber which I find easier to deal with.

Although its basically a cross cut with ply wood there really is no difference as every ply criss crosses the grains any how and the sizes of boxes,24x30, 28x32,26x28,so on and so on these are almost square therefore can be pushed right through a table saw in either direction with no adverse effects.A new blade right from the start and keep your finished side up as the blade will cut down through the piece this will minimize the splintering of your work.check out this safety feature its pretty cool I hope the link works : http://www.sawstop.com/contractor/contractor_home.php# click on number two on the right side.

 

[sawzalot]

Allright Dawg enough already lets build we are ready lol as if I were there too,I am with ya in thought just be patient and safe and I know your build will be sweet,where ya gonna setup in that nice newly cleaned garage .

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I just for back from a place named North Texas Millworks. I spoke to the manager at length on this project. After a brief tour of the facility I noticed that a lot of the guys in there were missing partial fingers (I am not kidding) I asked him about this and he said it was not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. I laughed and then told him I will extinguish my thoughts of ever becoming a woodworker right then and there.

We then discussed the build. He said he can build anything out of any material and make it look like whatever I want it to look like. He said he has built many, many subs and speakers. he has a bedroom set up where his bed houses his Warfadale drivers and a couch that is his sub.

He did raise concerns over using 13ply Birch. He said all Birch comes from overseas now with questionable Q&A. He stated that he has seen a lot of it "pull apart" under extreme pressure such as in sub application. He said if I want Birch, he would build it in birch but if it was up to him, he would use MDF with whatever veneer I want to use.

He said we can go one of two ways. If he builds it in the shop, he will just CNC it. If he builds it at home, it will be less expensive.

So what do you guys think on the material?

http://www.northtexasmillworks.net/index.html

 

[Matt34]

One of the main reasons I went with Birch on mine (besides the design calling for it) was because they will get moved around a lot so I wanted something more durable than MDF. I'm sure the MDF will be cheaper.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

But do you think it will be better?

He also said he has seen subs "walk" too much when using Birch as they are not heavy enough. He described the exact issue I have with my sealed sub.

One of the main reasons I went with Birch on mine (besides the design calling for it) was because they will get moved around a lot so I wanted something more durable than MDF. I'm sure the MDF will be cheaper.

 

[Matt34]

But do you think it will be better?

He also said he has seen subs "walk" too much when using Birch as they are not heavy enough. He described the exact issue I have with my sealed sub.

I doubt you or I would notice an audible performance difference so I think it would come down to personnal preference, I would probably go with the builders recomendation on this. Chris (WmAx) might but then again with a ported design it's not going to "walk" as much as a sealed. My sealed Rythmics walk when pushed hard and they are in MDF enclosures but my Perfects don't.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

How about the "pull apart" issue he was talking about?

I doubt you or I would notice an audible difference. Chris (WmAx) might but then again with a ported design it's not going to "walk" as much as a sealed. My sealed Rythmics walk when pushed hard and they are in MDF enclosures but my Perfects don't.

 

[Matt34]

How about the "pull apart" issue he was talking about?

If it's screwed and glued properly I don't see how as long as the material is of reasonable quaility but I'm not an expert. The Birch used in my enclosures look to be of good quaility and I haven't experienced anything like that yet.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

He wasn't talking about the joints and edges.

If it's screwed and glued properly I don't see how as long as the material is of reasonable quaility but I'm not an expert. The Birch used in my enclosures look to be of good quaility and I haven't experienced anything like that yet.

 

[Matt34]

He wasn't talking about the joints and edges.

Ah, you mean the layers of Birch?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That's what he said.

Ah, you mean the layers of Birch?

 

[sawzalot]

Thats when the lamination of plys fails to hold up bad glue,factory defect I have hardly ever seen such failure except when the birch or oak ply gets too much moisture and we dont have all weather subs so I have to say we would almost never see that happen I'll leave say a 2% chance open cause anything is possible right ? I am looking at my subs right now without my finish applied and those plys look like they will never separate , no way just too tight.Remember how darn heavy those mdf subs will be.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Do your new subs walk at all? My sealed version still walks some on the Gramma which has a "no skid" mat under it. Walks even worse without the matt.

I tried it on hockey pucks one time and it would jump all the way off them. If it was heavier, it wouldn't do this.

Thats when the lamination of plys fails to hold up bad glue,factory defect I have hardly ever seen such failure except when the birch or oak ply gets too much moisture and we dont have all weather subs so I have to say we would almost never see that happen I'll leave say a 2% chance open cause anything is possible right ? I am looking at my subs right now without my finish applied and those plys look like they will never separate , no way just too tight.Remember how darn heavy those mdf subs will be.

 

[lsiberian]

I just for back from a place named North Texas Millworks. I spoke to the manager at length on this project. After a brief tour of the facility I noticed that a lot of the guys in there were missing partial fingers (I am not kidding) I asked him about this and he said it was not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. I laughed and then told him I will extinguish my thoughts of ever becoming a woodworker right then and there.

We then discussed the build. He said he can build anything out of any material and make it look like whatever I want it to look like. He said he has built many, many subs and speakers. he has a bedroom set up where his bed houses his Warfadale drivers and a couch that is his sub.

He did raise concerns over using 13ply Birch. He said all Birch comes from overseas now with questionable Q&A. He stated that he has seen a lot of it "pull apart" under extreme pressure such as in sub application. He said if I want Birch, he would build it in birch but if it was up to him, he would use MDF with whatever veneer I want to use.

He said we can go one of two ways. If he builds it in the shop, he will just CNC it. If he builds it at home, it will be less expensive.

So what do you guys think on the material?

http://www.northtexasmillworks.net/index.html

I wonder if I could hire out my cabinets to him.

Not sure about the when part on losing fingers though. I think that all comes down to safety. Confindence has a way of opening the door to corner cutting. This is where bad things happen. Safety and setup are a priority with tools and must remain so. Cars are included in this. Your Vehicle is the most dangerous tool you use. If you drive dangerously speeding, cutting people off(etc) You are likely to get seriously injured.

Also tool quality come before value. Don't use bad crap. Death is not a fun option. That being said I'm an Engineer not a salesman. And the first burn you get from solder teaches you safety first.

 

[Alex2507]

I tried it on hockey pucks one time and it would jump all the way off them. If it was heavier, it wouldn't do this.

If you didn't have it turned up loud enough to make mike c feel it, it wouldn't do this.

I'm glad you're getting professional help.
Seriously, a $750 driver deserves more than an amateur effort.
Most professional carpenters are incapable of doing finish grade work.

I thought the birch part was just the veneer on the hardwood plies and I don't get the part about it just de-laminating. Would the sub still walk if you made it down firing? I'm not suggesting you should, I'm just asking. Then you wouldn't need a grill and you could throw stuff at it.

 

[WmAx]

I have seen low quality 13 ply birch where the ply layers are not well glued. But you can inspect the actual ply before you purchase it. Check around the edges and if you can easily separate the layers by pulling on the edge pieces or if they are coming apart by themselves, then you know it's not a good example of ply. Also measure the thickness to ensure it's 3/4" thick. I have seen some ply be off by a 1/16", which would certainly cause some large gaps that need to be filled if you cut plans are based on 3/4" thickness. You can even use the 7 or 9 ply hardwood oak ply cabinet grade if you need to for subwoofers. It's generally easier to find that in higher quality stock as compared to the 13 ply birch. Or just use MDF if you are paranoid about the ply.

-Chris

 

[ParadigmDawg]

So if I am hearing this correctly:

1. MDF will work as well but is heavy and nasty to work with.

2. Cabinet grade ply should be fine as long as it is closely inspected.

3. You may or may not cut your fingers off when you do projects.

This guy sounds like he really knows what he is talking about. He said he would be happy to talk to Chris about details but I told him that Chris would probably charge me for that (lol).

He did make a statement that left me a little uncomfortable- "We are really expensive but you are paying for quality". After further talks, he has a wife that needs some medical equipment and doesn't have insurance so I told him we may could work out something.

 

[sawzalot]

Do your new subs walk at all? My sealed version still walks some on the Gramma which has a "no skid" mat under it. Walks even worse without the matt.

I tried it on hockey pucks one time and it would jump all the way off them. If it was heavier, it wouldn't do this.

No Dawg these things dont budge at all they are like anchors,now I have only had the volume up to -3 so maybe I could move em there is still some thrust left but I'll prolly never feel it.Like WmAx says there is a true 3/4 " oak at the blue box.I believe its 9 plyand I dont believe for one milli second that it would ever fail in ply lamination,heck I"d bet that it could get rained on one time and still not come apart its a good product.

 

[lsiberian]

So if I am hearing this correctly:

1. MDF will work as well but is heavy and nasty to work with.

2. Cabinet grade ply should be fine as long as it is closely inspected.

3. You may or may not cut your fingers off when you do projects.

This guy sounds like he really knows what he is talking about. He said he would be happy to talk to Chris about details but I told him that Chris would probably charge me for that (lol).

He did make a statement that left me a little uncomfortable- "We are really expensive but you are paying for quality". After further talks, he has a wife that needs some medical equipment and doesn't have insurance so I told him we may could work out something.

MDF isn't nasty if you have a good dust collection system, but I will say that anything higher than 300 bucks for a cabinet is a bit much. And honestly ply makes a huge mess without a DC as well. Believe me I've been covered in birch.

Cabinet grade ply should be fine. The Orange store has it.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Hey, he mentioned something and I wasn't sure what he was saying.

Do you run stock left to right or right to left on a router table?

I have a gut feeling that it will be well over 300 bucks but I will just tell you guys that it was $258.

MDF isn't nasty if you have a good dust collection system, but I will say that anything higher than 300 bucks for a cabinet is a bit much. And honestly ply makes a huge mess without a DC as well. Believe me I've been covered in birch.

Cabinet grade ply should be fine. The Orange store has it.