Fighting the NWO, anyone else out there?

[Rickster71]

The problem is that partisans are blind to facts. They simply can't see them.

That's a two way street, the last I checked.

 

[highfigh]

Guns are the source of widespread violence in our nation. Many people are killed with guns. Including children who play with them. While some people are responsible and capable of handling a gun. Most people aren't.

And Obama is doing several good things.
1. Closing GBay(if you think this isn't good I suggest you visit your local mosque and makes some friends.)

2. Restoring our image in the Muslim world. (We made a lot of enemies)

3. Beginning to refocus our attention to Al-Queda region.

4. Moving toward a more united world.

These are all positives. Also our economy while tough hasn't fallen off a cliff.

Plus he's fixing our broken tax system by making it more progressive rather than regressive.

This Give Act looks like a very good bill. Though it's a bit porkish IMO.

I suppose it's hard for partisans to be objective, but I have supported Bush and now I'm supporting Obama. Both were the more capable candidates, IMO.

Once again, people are the problem but guns are blamed. If guns are banned, people still have a lot of weapons at their disposal but none of them would help in the event that guns are taken away by government mandate and it's much easier to control the population when they can't defend themselves.

People are somewhat corrupt- as soon as they find out that they can manipulate people, it just becomes easier to keep doing it. If they don't have anyone telling them that lying, stealing and generally doing things that hurt others is bad, they won't stop. This leads me to a major point that politicians and leaders seldom bring up- PARENTS ARE DOING A REALLY BAD JOB OF RAISING THEIR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Either the kids aren't getting the message or parents aren't delivering it effectively. Could also be that all of the glamorization of violence and deceipt make people want to get what they want by any means. Permissive, absent and apathetic parents have caused most, if not all, of the problems we see every day. I do accept the opinion that some people are just worse than others out of the gate, though.

On your 4 points that Obama is doing a good job with:

1. Why do people hate Green Bay? It's the smallest city with a team, yet....Oh. Guantanamo Bay. I'm sorry. Never mind.

Seriously- there are some people I don't even want on US soil and if we can have a place where they can be interrogated, I'm OK with it. Waterboarding people who associate with others, when those others have hijacked civilian planes and crashed them into building in the financial hub of the country, really isn't so bad, is it? You want to compare waterboarding to beheading journalists and soldiers? At least we gave them prayer mats, Q'rans, let them pray five times a day, fed them, and kept them out of the weather. Oh, wait- we insulted them and made them sad? Oh, DEFINITELY close Gitmo! That's unconscionable.

Look at what they did to cause their incarceration before condemning where we keep dirtbags like these. Being with terrorists makes them guilty by association, just like the US being an ally of Israel makes us Zionist.

2. "Restoring our image in the Muslim world. (We made a lot of enemies)"

If you mean mainstream Muslims, fine. Most non-Muslims don't understand them anyway. If you want the US to make friends with Muslim extremists, why don't you go out there and see what you can do. They have never cared whether the rest were their friends, they just wanted to force others to accept Islam as the one true religion and Allah as the one true God. They don't want us to be their friends, they just want Islam to be universal. Oh, BTW- they don't want it to be the mainstream version, either. They want their nutjob version, where only men have any say in what goes on in the world. Where killing and torture (there's that nasty word again) are a daily method of meting out justice, female mutilation (can't have women actually enjoying sex, can we?), beatings and stoning are done when swift justice is wanted instead of due process and many people have few of the freedoms that we have had since the signing of the Constitution.

3. " Beginning to refocus our attention to Al-Queda region."

If you mean a geographical region, there isn't one. They're all over, but not necessarily openly active.

Bush seemed to have lost his focus on that part of the terrorist battle but if you ask anyone in the military, they'll tell you that since before we went into Iraq, we have been going after Al Qaida and the Taliban. We never stopped, but Pakistan won't let us go into some parts of their country with military forces. Plus, even the people AQ and the Taliban have tormented don't want us there because we aren't Muslim and again, our association with Israel makes us their enemy. "You are my friend's enemy, so you are my enemy but if you are my enemy's enemy, you are my friend"- ever heard of this?

4. Moving toward a more united world.

A truly united world will never happen and if it does, we're all in trouble. There are too many different ideologies for this to happen. The only time people get along is when one can be dominant and the other can benefit from the association or when they can all benefit financially. Even a puppet government is in a better position than they would be if not for the puppetmaster.

"I don't know where you live, but every person is corrupt including yourself. I have yet to meet a perfect person. But our system is very ethical for a democracy. I am spiritual so I belief someday one will rule that isn't corrupt, but until that day I'll forgive and love my leaders. I pray they would do well for this nation."

This smacks of "I see that all people are corrupt but because I'm spiritual, I'm better than you" and "God will take care of us".

Pointing fingers is a good way to keep the problems going. Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Orel Roberts and the others would say that they are/were spiritual and look at what they did. If you're a believer in what's in the Bible, you know that a leader, with great charisma, who can unite the world is the beginning of the end. If that's what you believe, fine but in the mean time, it's our duty as Americans to be skeptical of our government because it was created with ways to keep it from becoming all-powerful and excessively controlling.

I know you want to believe that Obama is great and truly has our best interest in mind but I have a serious problem with anyone who says he won't run and then does, says that we live in the greatest country in the history of the world and tells everyone to help him change it, says he'll change as much as he did and turns that around by saying "It won't happen in a year, it may not happen in four" the night of the election and taught Constitutional Law for over ten years. By teaching that for so long and having aspirations of being President, I have no choice but to believe that he has thought of every way to bypass every article and Amendment as a way to create what, in his mind, is a government that is perfect. By 'perfect', I mean one that gives the masses what they have been led to believe they need, by a government that has the power to take what it wants from them. The problem is that they would never include the last part in their campaign platform.

You may welcome higher taxes, so why don't you offer to pay someone else's tax bill, feed/clothe/house them and generally make sure they have everything they need?

 

[Alex2507]

“Guns kill people, like spoons made Rosie O’Donnell fat."

On that line of thinking, do you have any idea how much damage errant golf balls do down in Florida? If your house is on a golf course, your lawn guy has been nailed but good. Don't laugh, that $h!t stings.

 

[highfigh]

That knee jerk reactive statement reminds me of the bumper sticker I saw:
“Guns kill people, like spoons made Rosie O’Donnell fat."

As the official spokesman for spoons, I urge you to stop this campaign of persecution. Little food can be prepared or eaten (or earthwormed through, mowed, grazed, gnawed or scarfed) without knives, forks, ladles, spatulas or just by putting her mouth over the outlet of a food grinder so someone can crank it until she's stuffed like a bratwurst.

Spoons are people, too.

 

[Tomorrow]

just by putting her mouth over the outlet of a food grinder so someone can crank it until she's stuffed like a bratwurst.

I thought that's the way she did it.

Is anyone going to a Tea Party?!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-04-12-teaparties12_N.htm

 

[Rickster71]

As the official spokesman for spoons, I urge you to stop this campaign of persecution. Little food can be prepared or eaten (or earthwormed through, mowed, grazed, gnawed or scarfed) without knives, forks, ladles, spatulas or just by putting her mouth over the outlet of a food grinder so someone can crank it until she's stuffed like a bratwurst.

Spoons are people, too.

Libertarians can be so insensitive.

 

[Rickster71]

What amount of money did you make last year?!?! According to US tax code, you didn't pay over 35% even if you make an infinite amount of money.

Even then, you only get taxed progressively; you paid the same amount intaxes on your income in each bracket below the "absurd income" bracket as everyone else in the US. That's the beauty of the brackets. If you truly paid 40%, I find it hard you're not "get[ting] ahead."

Sounds like you are forgetting State and Local Taxes, on top of Federal tax.

 

[businessjeff]

1st off, yes im going to the Tampa Bay Tea Party.

Seriously- there are some people I don't even want on US soil and if we can have a place where they can be interrogated, I'm OK with it.

You do realize that they only have a ratio of about 50:1 actual criminals in Gitmo right? Thats not are role, we do not police the globe. Yes theres bad people out there, but how do we handle it? BY BEING A SUPER BAD EVEN WORSE PERSON BACK??? Wrong, peace is the only way, and Gitmo is far from that, let alone illegal. Gitmo is a hub for our Government to make secret arrests and torture innocent people, in every which way it is terrible and ineffective for the most part. They have many accounts of people they deem not a threat who have been released back into the public, later to be found fronting al qaeda once again, only this time around with much more thrice. So that alone is reason enough to close gitmo, it doesnt work. If your argument is that it keeps criminals out of the world, kill 1 save a thousand mindset... Well its a documented fact that it has failed and perfectly trumps that argument to any proponent of gitmo remaining open.

I know you want to believe that Obama is great and truly has our best interest in mind

Thats not even really the problem, it goes a bit deeper. The issue is people need to realize how our who system is changing and that our president is as about as powerful as the queen of England. Hes a puppet, a tool, a spokesman. Just like Bush, they just do what they are told...

 

[highfigh]

I thought that's the way she did it.

Is anyone going to a Tea Party?!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-04-12-teaparties12_N.htm

But it was the spoon that gets the blame for being the last utensil to touch the food before it went into the grinder.

Life is so unfair.

 

[highfigh]

Thats not even really the problem, it goes a bit deeper. The issue is people need to realize how our who system is changing and that our president is as about as powerful as the queen of England. Hes a puppet, a tool, a spokesman. Just like Bush, they just do what they are told...

A puppet. Right. I don't think you have been paying attention. He said HE would make the changes. The only way for this to happen is if he gets enough support in Congress and they all make it possible for one branch of the government to have Supreme Power. Failing that, by having enough support in Congress, it's a moot point because whatever he wants, he can get. The three branches are there to act as checks and balances for each other but if two are in synch, the one on the outside, in this case the Supreme Court, can be overruled by changing/creating/repealing laws and Amendments. When that Congress is as friendly to the POTUS as they are now, there's no effective way to stop them and when they promise to give people what they "need", there's no way those people will vote him out of office. As I said, he taught Constitutional Law for over ten years and he knows how to circumvent the articles and Amendments. If he decides to officially call himself anything that resembles 'Supreme Commander", it will be time to start over and it will be ugly.

I really think you're underestimating his intent, ambitions and connections.

I honestly hope I'm wrong but only time will tell. If they ever disrupt communications in the interest of "National Security", we'll know it's bad.

 

[Rickster71]

I give you the same challenge I've given others here that claim our government is taking our rights away.

Please give a list of specific rights that you have lost personally in the last 8 years.

I'll take a stab at this.

First, is home / property ownership and lack of real ownership rights.
(Part of The Bill of Rights)

Most people have never heard of "eminent domain," but they know the government sometimes takes private land for projects the public will own and use, such as a highway or post office. Few people realize, however, that state and local governments routinely take individual homes and businesses to transfer the land to private businesses for private profit, and increased Tax revenues.
Now state and local governments think they can condemn anything for any reason. They freely use eminent domain to benefit all kinds of private parties – casinos, Costco, upscale condos and office buildings, to name a few.
Government has either taken or threatened to take more than 10,000 homes, businesses, churches and land for private benefit. And that is during just a five-year period.

Eminent domain for private use happens all over the country, from a small urban church in North Hempstead, N.Y., condemned for private retail, to the removal of a woman in her 80s from her home of 55 years in Bremerton, Wash. The claimed purpose was expanding a sewer plant, but the City actually gave her former home to an auto dealership. The beneficiaries are often powerful private business interests, like The New York Times and Bank of America. Sometimes they are national chain stores; St. Paul took a local car dealership for a Best Buy. And sometimes the businesses are just local favorites, as in Mesa, Ariz., where the City unsuccessfully tried to condemn a family owned brake shop for the more politically connected Ace Hardware Store.

The stated goal of these development projects is to increase jobs and tax revenues. There's nothing wrong with increased business development, but the means used by government in these cases isn't lifting regulations and encouraging entrepreneurship. Instead, government is using force to replace middle-income citizens with richer ones and small businesses with larger ones. Both Merriam, Kan., and San Leandro, Calif., removed used car dealerships for new car dealerships.

The jobs and taxes justification gives an unlimited field for exercise of government power. Few homes in the nation wouldn't generate more jobs and tax dollars as a private business venture. That's what Kansas said when it condemned 150 homes for a racetrack. Ditto for small businesses. Bill Brody's commercial building in Port Chester housed 11 small businesses, but it still wasn't as desirable to the Village as a Stop & Shop. And of course, absolutely any private use will pay more taxes than a tax-free church. That was the explanation of Cypress, Calif., when it filed a condemnation against church property to replace it with a Costco.

 

[avaserfi]

Rickster, don't forget that eminent domain has also been justified by the supreme court in the case Kelo v. City of New London. I believe the supreme court had a 5-4 decision in favor of the use of eminent domain citing (and misinterpreting, IMO) the fifth amendment.

I believe this is a good example of a point where the checks and balances fail to operate properly furthering our lack of freedom.

 

[Rickster71]

Rickster, don't forget that eminent domain has also been justified by the supreme court in the case Kelo v. City of New London. I believe the supreme court had a 5-4 decision in favor of the use of eminent domain citing (and misinterpreting, IMO) the fifth amendment.

I believe this is a good example of a point where the checks and balances fail to operate properly furthering our lack of freedom.

I'm all for when the government sometimes takes private land for projects the public will own and use, such as a highway, etc.
It's the abuse of Eminent Domain that takes away our rights.

Cities across the country have been abusing eminent domain to force people off their land, so private developers can build more expensive homes and offices, that will pay more in property taxes than the buildings they're replacing. It's just a money grab by government.

 

[Nemo128]

Nice segway to eminent domain. That's one thing worth codemning the govt for. Robert Moses had a love affair with eminent domain, and he destroyed countless lives with it...

But, read up on him and ask yourself a question... what class of citizen did he ultimately alter the course of history for?

 

[lsiberian]

The weekly deductions on my pay are undeniable. Then we have to consider other mandatory deductions, like CPP, EI and Health Tax. When I get what's left, I have to pay property tax, PST and GST on every product or service I buy. By the time they're done with me after taxes, surcharges and fees on my utilities, insurance, driver's license, license plates, gasoline, etc., I expect my total tax payout is closer to 60% of my gross.

But hey, my neighbors have decided that that's my "fair share". If that's what you want for America, have at it.

I'm not talking 60%. Reasonable is a max of 40% and that's only on the top 1%

Don't raise the taxes of the middle class and poor. Though I prefer the 36% of the 90s.

I'm actually a fiscal conservative, but in our nation neither party seems to embrace this anymore. And Reps are bad spenders IMO. They are much better saving.

 

[lsiberian]

That's a two way street, the last I checked.

Exactly neither the reps or dems can see the other side.

I vote for balance.

 

[highfigh]

Rather than keep debating how much people pay in tax, as a percentage (although there's no way to justify making low income people pay a high percentage), I'd like to see some cost cutting and for government to at least try to stop wasting so many billions of dollars. If they cut the wasteful spending, we probably wouldn't be debating this at all.

If a retailer jacked their prices just because they couldn't stop pissing money away, they'd lose their customer base and go under. Governments don't have this problem because they just keep rolling along and we can't do much about it.

 

[lsiberian]

Once again, people are the problem but guns are blamed.

On your 4 points that Obama is doing a good job with:

1. Why do people hate Green Bay? It's the smallest city with a team, yet....Oh. Guantanamo Bay. I'm sorry. Never mind.


2. "Restoring our image in the Muslim world. (We made a lot of enemies)"


3. " Beginning to refocus our attention to Al-Queda region."

4. Moving toward a more united world.


You may welcome higher taxes, so why don't you offer to pay someone else's tax bill, feed/clothe/house them and generally make sure they have everything they need?

1.We do need better gun laws. I know people who own guns and should. I also know people who own guns that shouldn't.

1. I was talking about green bay it's so cold and they have an evil football team. Plus my cousin was dragged up their several years ago and cheated on! Seriously, Torture is ineffective and GBay has made life harder for traveling Americans not easier.

2.Most muslims are reasonable, but like us every groups has it's criminals. Ours form gangs and sell drugs theirs build bombs and blow up stuff.

3.the Hindu Kush Mountain range in Pakistan and Afghanistan where they've risen to power

4.This is happening, but will take time. We've come a long way from where we were.

This isn't a Theology topic so I'm not getting into that. My goal is to try and roll back misconceptions and encourage a more positive view of politics. The negative view promotes apathy.

 

[Davemcc]

I'm not talking 60%. Reasonable is a max of 40% and that's only on the top 1%

Don't raise the taxes of the middle class and poor. Though I prefer the 36% of the 90s.

I'm actually a fiscal conservative, but in our nation neither party seems to embrace this anymore. And Reps are bad spenders IMO. They are much better saving.

That looks like some pretty arbitrary percentages, picked from a hat at a party. I guess if you were president, that would be qualification to pass it into law. I'd like to hear some reasoning as to why you think these percentages would be beneficial to the economy. Perhaps some interpretation of the Laffer Curve would be in order.

I'd also like to know how you define "fiscal conservative" because all I've seen so far is your willingness to take as much as you want from whoever you feel and spend it on whatever you think the gov't should. That's socialism my friend, not conservatism, fiscal or otherwise.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Slowly, but surely.